Time to open a can of worms........... DSG or Manual?

[cnc]

So DMF on almost every high mileage DSG, that job alone is probably £500+, at least in the South.

If you use a car for business or have someone else paying for the repairs, DSG is a no brainer. For private purchases though, and cars kept for more than 120k miles/6 years, I wouldn't buy it. 

I think the DSG and DMF relationship is irrelevant as they are two distinctly different components. DMF replacement applies whether it's a DSG or manual.

[cnc]

6 spd wet clutch for TDi's

 

6 spd wet clutch for V6's

 

7 speed dry clutch for 1.8 TSi

I think there are three more, the 1.6 TDI uses a 7 speed dry, and you can get a 7 speed wet clutch for both 2.0 TDI and 2.0 TSI, although the 7 speed wet seems to be on VW's only at the moment as far as I know (currently on new VW Tiguan models).

Edited 10 January, 2015 by cnc

[dieselV6]

I think the DSG and DMF relationship is irrelevant as they are two distinctly different components. DMF replacement applies whether it's a DSG or manual.

 

I think the 2 might be related, DSG changes gears more often than manual (on account of more gears and the computer having limited view of the road ahead) and on average drive in higher gear than a sensible driver with a manual box. More gear changes and higher gears do translate to higher DMF loading, both static (high gears) and dynamic (gear changes).

Edited 10 January, 2015 by dieselV6

[sherlocks VRS]

I think the 2 might be related, DSG changes gears more often than manual (on account of more gears and the computer having limited view of the road ahead) and on average drive in higher gear than a sensible driver with a manual box. More gear changes and higher gears do translate to higher DMF loading, both static (high gears) and dynamic (gear changes).

Love to know where you are getting your info from. Having been with skoda for over 8 years i can honestly say i think we have changed about 10 dmf on dsg gearboxes compared to hundreds of dmf on manual boxes, the dsg may change gear more frequent than the manual but it changes it smoother without possible gear snatching and dumping of clutches. 

[dieselV6]

I am sure you are changing lots of DMFs in manual gearbox cars of drivers who can't change gears properly or lug the engine, but the fact is I have used 2 Skodas to 130k miles so far, no DMF problems, 1 sadly written off (hit while stationary). So based on my limited sample, DMFs are not an issue in on manual gearboxes that I have been using, though I would not call 130k mileage high enough.

 

A Fabia 2 or Roomster DSG box is in 5th or higher gear by the time you barely leave my local dealership and turn into main road, that's a fact as in actually tested. Driving a 4cyl diesel at <1200rpm is not good for the DMF, no matter how smooth the gear changes are. I don't use even 4th in the same road as the dealership on a manual gearbox Roomie with same engine.

 

Anyway, bottom line is if you do not pay for the repairs, buy DSG, if you do pay for repairs, think about potential repair costs first before buying a DSG equipped car. If you can't change gears, buy a DSG again. 

Edited 10 January, 2015 by dieselV6

[sherlocks VRS]

I am sure you are changing lots of DMFs in manual gearbox cars of drivers who can't change gears properly or lug the engine, but the fact is I have used 2 Skodas to 130k miles so far, no DMF problems, 1 sadly written off (hit while stationary). So based on my limited sample, DMFs are not an issue in on manual gearboxes that I have been using, though I would not call 130k mileage high enough.

 

A Fabia 2 or Roomster DSG box is in 5th or higher gear by the time you barely leave my local dealership and turn into main road, that's a fact as in actually tested. Driving a 4cyl diesel at <1200rpm is not good for the DMF, no matter how smooth the gear changes are. I don't use even 4th in the same road as the dealership on a manual gearbox Roomie with same engine.

 

Anyway, bottom line is if you do not pay for the repairs, buy DSG, if you do pay for repairs, think about potential repair costs first before buying a DSG equipped car. If you can't change gears, buy a DSG again. 

We see at least 3 taxi companies who use either octavia dsg and superb dsg cars all boasting 200k + with no dsg issues, Also another thing is we are seeing a increasing no of 6 speed manual boxes being wrecked by the clutch retaining springs snapping and cutting into the interior bell housing and letting the oil drain from the box and rendering the box scrap if the car has been driven for a period of time with no or very little oil in it, Ok if you are in warranty but if its not covered the boxes are 2k plus to buy. Last thing is FACT, We do not see many issues with superb dsg boxes!

[dieselV6]

Last time I checked, taxis were a business, so a percentage of failures is acceptable as fixing them even at high unit cost is acceptable. 

 

I think you might want to re-read Gizmo68's post #22 as it states best the problem of DSG in private long term ownership. 10% risk is unacceptable in private ownership IMHO.

[cnc]

Last time I checked, taxis were a business, so a percentage of failures is acceptable as fixing them even at high unit cost is acceptable. 

 

I think you might want to re-read Gizmo68's post #22 as it states best the problem of DSG in private long term ownership. 10% risk is unacceptable in private ownership IMHO.

As sherlocks VRS says in his two posts above. Listen to someone who works with them day in day out over many years.

 

Being a business has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.

[sherlocks VRS]

Taxis are a business granted but if they had a unreliable car which was off the road having repairs they would soon be out of business! They want the most reliable product they can afford. And as I've previously said from my experience the superb and Octavia dsg gives very little problems. Would love to hear your comments about the manual issues we are now seeing.

[thinline1]

Hi

Have driven both and love the dsg

Although ended up with a manual but tbh I think I would get bored with the dsg as I would miss the involvement.

Tbh i am kinda happy with either

[Gizmo]

Love to know where you are getting your info from. Having been with skoda for over 8 years i can honestly say i think we have changed about 10 dmf on dsg gearboxes compared to hundreds of dmf on manual boxes, the dsg may change gear more frequent than the manual but it changes it smoother without possible gear snatching and dumping of clutches. 

 

We’ll it SHOULD shouldn’t it? 

 

However on the demo Superb Estate I test drove the DSG was nothing impressive at all, it ‘launched’ when putting into D or R (every time) all the salesman could say is yes ‘some just do that’ not a really acceptable explanation IMO, maybe it just needed a software update, but it certainly wasn’t ‘right’.

The Fabia vRS we drove 12 months later was faultless and if it wasn’t for the fact that some of them liked a decent drink of oil we probably would have gone and looked at the Golf and TT (then bought a TT) 

 

I drive 100K + miles PA (granted in a truck) which has an auto box, this I would not change for a manual... but for two very good reasons:

1: In traffic they are a godsend (and one thing less to worry about whilst looking for a delivery / collection point.

2: I don’t pay the bills 

 

It isn’t even the best auto box on the truck market (currently Volvo.... but even these stall and crunch gears very occasionally!) most of the time it is great, other times not so great, this is true of DSG as well (in my experience) 

 

FWIW the only clutch / flywheel’s I have EVER had to have changed was either on my rally car (understandable as they get a lot of abuse) or on a car I had bought second hand... one a Subaru Legacy turbo, so I assumed got driven hard? the second on my current Edition 100, and this had been used for towing.

[tmg]

so to weigh in here. 

 

its really down to the OP what they want in a car.

 

the DSG is a very comfortable and relaxed drive, is sporty enough when its connected to a reasonably powerful engine, and is very smooth. if you want even more control, get the paddles as an option.

 

a manual will still be the preferred choice of many, but overall (and I've driven DSGs, manuals, and traditional automatics), i think the DSG is the way to go from here on in.

 

also for the performance heads out there going "manual is better", take a look at steve sutcliffe's review of the golf R in dsg vs. manual - he couldn't get the manual car under 6 seconds 0-60, DSG was 5.7 every time).  

 

I know that of our current cars, one is an auto, one is a DSG (a touran) and my daily driver is a 170 4x4 manual superb combi. they are all fine. but next time, I will definitely go for a DSG over a manual. the key seems to be actually servicing the DSG box every 40k miles with new fluid and filter. 

 

also I believe (but have no first hand experience) that the older 7 speeds were a tad more flaky, but that the newer 7 speeds, and the trad. 6 speed in the diesels are solid enough.

[Wile7]

Interesting thread. I am on the cusp of buying a 3.6 with DSG (2010 model with 72,000kms) here in Switzerland.

 

I looked at, and drove, several Superbs with manual and DSG. Given my price range (i.e. not much...) I was looking at higher mileage cars. Two cars I looked at (3.6 DSG) had 252,000 and 327,000 kms on them (up and down German autobahns) with original gearboxes (and full VAG service history). Both drove very well and there had been no DSG issues - even the drivers seat bolsters were not that tired... One was a 1.8 petrol equipped DSG (2011) that had a new DSG at 170,000kms under warranty. I understand that the 1.8 have a 7 speed DSG whilst the 3.6 (2010 model) runs a six speed? That does echo the point made by Briskodian above.

 

From what I can see any car with a good service history (correct fluid changes etc.) should do well but, like any mechanical component, some will have issues whilst the majority will run ok.  As has been said, correct servicing is key.

 

Dave

[old newbie2]

DSG is pretty reliable,

 

As cabs the general rule is this

 

You will need a DMF between 70-120k and the clutch plates generally go again as they don't get worn like a manual driver wears them,

 

 

The oil change I'm on the fence with,

 

I had mine done and noticed nothing different,

 

If I ever own one again I'm going to saturate a new filter every 40k and fit that unless warranty demands it done fully,

 

There are three types of DSG as well

 

 

6 spd wet clutch for TDi's

 

6 spd wet clutch for V6's

 

7 speed dry clutch for 1.8 TSi

The 2.0 TSi also uses a 6 speed DSG, quite common in vRS Octys & my EOS, but hens teeth in the Superb!

(AFAK, less than 200 units sold in the UK, even less with paddles...)

 

We've had DSG oil & filter changes in the EOS & Octy, on age & mileage, but the Superb is too young & hasn't done enough miles yet.

The software reset / update on the EOS was worth the expenditure, it got rid of the "one granny owner performance" characteristics...........

 

We wouldn't go back to manuals now, faffing around with a third pedal & manual shift might be fun on a track, but in the real world finger-tip

paddle shifting is quicker, not that the 'box is often in the wrong gear.

 

As for day to day running costs, our cars don't seem expensive to run, & if we experience a major failure out of warranty, well that's what the piggy bank is for.

I'd sooner spend the cash keeping our cars running, it's no use to us in the grave!

 

 

DC 

[lowedb]

When I was buying, I had to weigh up DSG 140, or manual 170 because I wanted 4x4. I chose manual so I could have the 170.

 

I had experience of DSGs already, 2 Audi A3s which were great (same 170 engine, 6 speed wet clutch) and 2 1.6 Golfs. One of the Golfs was just not very nice, it being a struggle to manoeuvre nicely. It was too on and off. The second was as bad, but also decided to lose half the gears in the middle of town. A reset with VAS made it find them again, but we never trusted the car after that. That was probably three years ago, a year before i bought the Superb. If I hadn't had the Golfs I would have had no hesitation with the DSG, after the Golfs, it made me think twice.

[Supurbia]

At my quotes folks,

 

Yeah I've lost track of the amount of them, I knew of the three but I think you are right about there being more across the ranges,

 

The dry ones don't need the service do they?

 

I love em myself and I'll have another one if the right car comes up.

[DGW]

The dry ones don't need the service do they?

Apparently not.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/233854-7-speed-dsg-maintenance/

[vkd]

My first DSG on 170 CR engine. Absolutely love it!! Read about DSG issues, but then I tend to agree that people report things going wrong frequently than reporting things working fine. 

[Supurbia]

My first DSG on 170 CR engine. Absolutely love it!! Read about DSG issues, but then I tend to agree that people report things going wrong frequently than reporting things working fine. 

 

 

The difference between a radio valve and a microchip :sun:

[old newbie2]

The difference between a radio valve and a microchip :sun:

Que?

[Supurbia]

Que?

 

 

Very old vs new and good