Recent article that may help

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26583536

You are completely wrong, the law has changed in the last few months and the companies are now taking people to court and winning. If the OP follows your advise they could end up with a criminal record and a large fine or CCJ.

 

This is complete nonsense.  The law changed back in 2012 with the Protection of Freedoms Act. This gave the right for Private parking companies (PPC) to pursue the registered Keeper for parking charges as long as they stuck to the rules laid down in the Act. If they didn't they could only pursue the driver. The registered keeper is not obliged to reveal who the driver was. A lot of the cases that have been "won" by the PPCs are because the all letters were ignored  and the parking company has got a default judgement because the Small Claims Court claim wasn't defended properly, if at all.  If you look over at Peppipoo a lot of these are being defeated at the appeals stage at POPLA (the BPA "independent" appeals servce) and most "defended" claims at the Small Claims Court are either being won by the motorist or being dropped quietly by the PPC.

 

The main "defence" is that the PPC has to have to prove the loss, they seem very bad at this,- what is a loss in a free car park, or 20mins over your 3 free hours? It certainly isn't £60.

 

It is civil matter so you would never get a criminal record and you would only get a CCJ if you lost in court and then didn't pay.

 

This is of course if you live in England and Wales - not applicable to NI and Scotland.

This is complete nonsense.  The law changed back in 2012 with the Protection of Freedoms Act. This gave the right for Private parking companies (PPC) to pursue the registered Keeper for parking charges as long as they stuck to the rules laid down in the Act. If they didn't they could only pursue the driver. The registered keeper is not obliged to reveal who the driver was. A lot of the cases that have been "won" by the PPCs are because the all letters were ignored  and the parking company has got a default judgement because the Small Claims Court claim wasn't defended properly, if at all.  If you look over at Peppipoo a lot of these are being defeated at the appeals stage at POPLA (the BPA "independent" appeals servce) and most "defended" claims at the Small Claims Court are either being won by the motorist or being dropped quietly by the PPC.

 

The main "defence" is that the PPC has to have to prove the loss, they seem very bad at this,- what is a loss in a free car park, or 20mins over your 3 free hours? It certainly isn't £60.

 

It is civil matter so you would never get a criminal record and you would only get a CCJ if you lost in court and then didn't pay.

 

This is of course if you live in England and Wales - not applicable to NI and Scotland.

 

Finally someone talking sense!!! I would have got there eventually but got too fed up hearing the "the law has changed" ****e and couldn't be bothered any more!! Bottom line, let them take you to court, even if you lost (which i doubt given the above info) you cant get a county court judgement as by its very definition its a "county court" not a small claims court where this would be heard... civil matter as the amount is under 500..

Finally someone talking sense!!! I would have got there eventually but got too fed up hearing the "the law has changed" ****e and couldn't be bothered any more!! Bottom line, let them take you to court, even if you lost (which i doubt given the above info) you cant get a county court judgement as by its very definition its a "county court" not a small claims court where this would be heard... civil matter as the amount is under 500..

Some people just love to have an authority figure tell them what they can or can't do, then try to tell other people what they can and can't do rather than just growing a pair.

 

Yes people can and have gotten away with it regardless of whether you believe it or not and no you don't have to personally believe anything they say. If you want the information it's there to see if you don't i'm sure it suits a lot of people.

 

End of.

Finally someone talking sense!!! I would have got there eventually but got too fed up hearing the "the law has changed" ****e and couldn't be bothered any more!! Bottom line, let them take you to court, even if you lost (which i doubt given the above info) you cant get a county court judgement as by its very definition its a "county court" not a small claims court where this would be heard... civil matter as the amount is under 500..

Remember if you lost at court you would be liable for their legal fees and victims charge etc.

If you lose, you'll be looking at a lot more than £100.

Is there victim surcharge at county court? I thought it was only criminal.

Court costs are fixed so Max £60 for up to £300 claim.

Legal fees yes but unlikely to be awarded over £100.

Paging our resident court expert/insider....

If it really came to a summons then one could easily at that point judge it better to settle out-of-court beforehand.

It is really up to each and every one of us to decide how much time to invest in obtaining sufficient information and to then assess the risk of each course of action - we all have different values so there is no clear answer. I would suggest that posts on this forum may be helpful but should not be relied upon in that sense.

I have no idea how many (Private i.e. non-PCN) cases as a percentage actually make it to court. I suspect it to be minimal but it would be really interesting to get some hard evidence.

I have no idea how many (Private i.e. non-PCN) cases as a percentage actually make it to court. I suspect it to be minimal but it would be really interesting to get some hard evidence.

Don't be silly. This is an Internet forum.

Facts and hard evidence are always to be replaced with urban myths, half baked personal opinions, out of date assumptions, Wikipedia research, conspiracy theories, and of course the ultimate, unarguable clincher, what some bloke down the pub told me happened to his mates cousin.

Hmmm, been following this now from the start and I still don't really understand what the discussion is all about ...

 

The original discussion started with someone who stayed 44 minutes longer than permitted and it seems to me that the 2 hour parking limit was clearly stated on the signs at the car park. The reason for this seem to have been the 'he forgot the time' ... To me it sounds like it is just to part with the money they ask for and a lesson might be learned, next time just keep the time under control ...

 

I have payed a lot of parking fines in my days, I have only disputed two for parking in areas where I had a permit but didn't notice when the permit paper went from the dashboard to the floor when closing the door. I am brought up to pay for my mistakes ... ... and I have made quite a few ...

Hmmm, been following this now from the start and I still don't really understand what the discussion is all about ...

 

The original discussion started with someone who stayed 44 minutes longer than permitted and it seems to me that the 2 hour parking limit was clearly stated on the signs at the car park. The reason for this seem to have been the 'he forgot the time' ... To me it sounds like it is just to part with the money they ask for and a lesson might be learned, next time just keep the time under control ...

 

I have payed a lot of parking fines in my days, I have only disputed two for parking in areas where I had a permit but didn't notice when the permit paper went from the dashboard to the floor when closing the door. I am brought up to pay for my mistakes ... ... and I have made quite a few ...

 

Here is where you clearly miss the point... the isnt a fine, its a charge plucked out of the air by the poxy companies to generate revenue!! Lets use an example where the guy went into the shop with a max stay of 2 hours... took an hour and 30 mins getting his shopping then queued up to pay for it, however when he gets to the checkouts there is only 1 person on the till (as often happens in ALDI) and then proceeds to spend the next 30 mins waiting, and a further 25 mins checking out the shopping, packing, walking back to the car, loading car and driving off... by this time he has exceeded his 2 hours because of the store not having more staff on etc etc, i suppose you are going to tell me its the guys fault because he just lost track of time... you sir are a prime example of why these people exist, you just pay and never actually argue against many valid points you could raise against these charges (NOT FINES and not enforceable) 

 

Spend enough time reading you will find many people who have gone to court against these people and with a small amount of prep have always won.. most people are just too scared because the letters use big words like (COURT) big deal, its small claims and have minimum fines in the event you ever did lose...

 

Anyway OP have a read here, post 19 is quite helpful and basically goes back to what I said earlier that although they have you entering and leaving, they have no proof you ever actually parked and therefore entered into the contract with them...As i have now done 3 times successfully using the very same argument..

 

For the record too, im now up to 6 of these in various guises that ive won against.. im sure that will go up too!!

Don't be silly. This is an Internet forum.

Facts and hard evidence are always to be replaced with urban myths, half baked personal opinions, out of date assumptions, Wikipedia research, conspiracy theories, and of course the ultimate, unarguable clincher, what some bloke down the pub told me happened to his mates cousin.

 

My apologies, I think I must have drifted off. You are quite right.

For the OP, here is another site worth reading http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/

Here is where you clearly miss the point... the isnt a fine, its a charge plucked out of the air by the poxy companies to generate revenue!! Lets use an example where the guy went into the shop with a max stay of 2 hours... took an hour and 30 mins getting his shopping then queued up to pay for it, however when he gets to the checkouts there is only 1 person on the till (as often happens in ALDI) and then proceeds to spend the next 30 mins waiting, and a further 25 mins checking out the shopping, packing, walking back to the car, loading car and driving off... by this time he has exceeded his 2 hours because of the store not having more staff on etc etc, i suppose you are going to tell me its the guys fault because he just lost track of time... you sir are a prime example of why these people exist, you just pay and never actually argue against many valid points you could raise against these charges (NOT FINES and not enforceable) 

 

Spend enough time reading you will find many people who have gone to court against these people and with a small amount of prep have always won.. most people are just too scared because the letters use big words like (COURT) big deal, its small claims and have minimum fines in the event you ever did lose...

 

Anyway OP have a read here, post 19 is quite helpful and basically goes back to what I said earlier that although they have you entering and leaving, they have no proof you ever actually parked and therefore entered into the contract with them...As i have now done 3 times successfully using the very same argument..

 

For the record too, im now up to 6 of these in various guises that ive won against.. im sure that will go up too!!

 

Hi!

 

Well, to me a fee, charge or a fine doesn't make much of a difference. You have entered an area of land belonging to a land owner who has clearly stated the rules for that area. They like their area clean of cars who's owners like to park them for a period longer that it normally takes to do the shopping. And if you end up queueing doesn't matter either, it's like blaiming the rush hour for being late at work, I don't know one employer who would accept it either, I know for sure that I wouldn't. Being late is being late! At least in my book ... And if you don't like the rules, park elsewhere ...

 

... and by the way, I am not afraid of going to a small claims court either but I do it when I believe that I have done everything right and that does not include forgetting the time ... :-)

 

But I do agree to one thing though, they could use 'stay in this area' or something similar instead of the word 'parking' since that would make it even more hard to argue ...

Edited 25 April, 201412 yr by AndersNordh

Hi!

 

Well, to me a fee, charge or a fine doesn't make much of a difference. You have entered an area of land belonging to a land owner who has clearly stated the rules for that area. They like their area clean of cars who's owners like to park them for a period longer that it normally takes to do the shopping. And if you end up queueing doesn't matter either, it's like blaiming the rush hour for being late at work, I don't know one employer who would accept it either, I know for sure that I wouldn't. Being late is being late! At least in my book ... And if you don't like the rules, park elsewhere ...

 

... and by the way, I am not afraid of going to a small claims court either but I do it when I believe that I have done everything right and that does not include forgetting the time ... :-)

 

But I do agree to one thing though, they could use 'stay in this area' or something similar instead of the word 'parking' since that would make it even more hard to argue ...

 

So you mean to say that we now have to predict traffic, train failures, freak weather incidents as if these make us late for work its not an acceptable excuse? Christ I do hope you never end up anyones boss... basically sign or no sign, its a bit of private land no different from my driveway.. if someone parked there I couldnt clamp it (illegal) and having gone through this with my neighbour and someone parking on his drive a while back, the police arent interested either (Civil matter and therefore it would be between me and whoever owned the car) however should their car get damaged well then thats tough!!

Oh and the land owner "stating the rules" is akin to making up whatever story they want (hence the calls for it to be regulated)

Hi again!

 

Now I think you miss the point ...

 

Oh and the land owner "stating the rules" is akin to making up whatever story they want (hence the calls for it to be regulated)

 

If not the land owner have the right to state the rules for people parking on his property, who should then make the rules? And yes, I believe that the land owner have every right of stating any rules he like. Why not, it's his land ... as long as it does not breach any local or national laws!

 

So you mean to say that we now have to predict traffic, train failures, freak weather incidents as if these make us late for work its not an acceptable excuse? Christ I do hope you never end up anyones boss... basically sign or no sign, its a bit of private land no different from my driveway.. if someone parked there I couldnt clamp it (illegal) and having gone through this with my neighbour and someone parking on his drive a while back, the police arent interested either (Civil matter and therefore it would be between me and whoever owned the car) however should their car get damaged well then thats tough!!

 

No, of course everyone will run into some extraordinary things from time to time but rush hour is not one of them, It is always rush hour at certain times each day and that is something you need to deal with and nobody accepts you being late every day because of it. Just as I believe that you need to be prepared for queues at a store check out ...

So these businesses want you to come and buy from them, yet will try nail you to the wall if you spend a long time shopping there? I know if I went somewhere to do my shopping and got a speculative invoice through the post from an agent working on their behalf that would be the last time I went there. I'd also make sure they know that.

I used to stay in a flat that these leeches were brought in to export from. All residents were given a permit for their parking space. I called up and complained as no provision was made for visitors whatsoever, all the surrounding streets were either council permits or double yellows. I didn't hear of a single person who paid these scum anything, though. Last time I passed those flats, though, the signs were gone and had been replaced by a locked gate instead.

So these businesses want you to come and buy from them, yet will try nail you to the wall if you spend a long time shopping there? I know if I went somewhere to do my shopping and got a speculative invoice through the post from an agent working on their behalf that would be the last time I went there. I'd also make sure they know that.

 

 

They give you a couple of hours free parking and if you go over the free period you can normally pay extra.

Most people forget this and then wind up with a charge notice.

I don't think the charges are fair and maybe they should all be pay and display to end these issues.

You have entered an area of land belonging to a land owner who has clearly stated the rules for that area. They like their area clean of cars who's owners like to park them for a period longer that it normally takes to do the shopping. 

 

Very fair point. You can't blame Aldi for protecting their business by ensuring their customers can always park. Any car park in a town that has no restrictions, always ends up being full of commuters leaving their cars there all day.  

They give you a couple of hours free parking and if you go over the free period you can normally pay extra.

Most people forget this and then wind up with a charge notice.

I don't think the charges are fair and maybe they should all be pay and display to end these issues.

 

I actually agree with the pay and display. I have no issue with that as the charges are generally reasonable and conditions unambiguous. You see the machines with big signs above them, you see tickets in the windows of cars near yours. You get a ticket and it has an exact time on it. Clear, simple, effective.

You are completely wrong, the law has changed in the last few months and the companies are now taking people to court and winning. If the OP follows your advise they could end up with a criminal record and a large fine or CCJ.

You CANNOT end up with a criminal record, It's a civil matter NOT criminal...............

Just thought I'd offer a quick update on this. I submitted an appeal to popla on the grounds that the excel parking pre estimate of loss was complete nonsense, so based on the car park been free for the first hour, I won!

Just thought I'd offer a quick update on this. I submitted an appeal to popla on the grounds that the excel parking pre estimate of loss was complete nonsense, so based on the car park been free for the first hour, I won!

Did it cost anything in the end? any fees / admin costs?

Just half a dozen first class stamps. Maybe I should bill them!

Just half a dozen first class stamps. Maybe I should bill them!

Result then

Not that I have had a parking charge, but I will remember to appeal if I do