I think you're missing the point.

A £10,000 fine for speeding... yet burglars, drug dealers, thieves and other general scum get away with £100 fines and suspended sentences. What kind of message does that send?

What next? £1,000,000 fines for having a brake light out? The law needs to be proportionate.

It's nonsense like this that further adds to my strong beliefs that all police and national justice systems should be thrown in the bin, allowing local communities to deal with local justice... doing away with morons who make laws that harm the public, rather than protect.

Crud, I'd better get a new central brake light fitted ASAP

I think you're missing the point.

 

A £10,000 fine for speeding... yet burglars, drug dealers, thieves and other general scum get away with £100 fines and suspended sentences. What kind of message does that send?

What next? £1,000,000 fines for having a brake light out? The law needs to be proportionate.

 

 

It's nonsense like this that further adds to my strong beliefs that all police and national justice systems should be thrown in the bin, allowing local communities to deal with local justice... doing away with morons who make laws that harm the public, rather than protect.

Easy money from an easy target is the main and easy  incentive, simple as.

I think you're missing the point.

 

A £10,000 fine for speeding... yet burglars, drug dealers, thieves and other general scum get away with £100 fines and suspended sentences. What kind of message does that send?

What next? £1,000,000 fines for having a brake light out? The law needs to be proportionate.

 

 

It's nonsense like this that further adds to my strong beliefs that all police and national justice systems should be thrown in the bin, allowing local communities to deal with local justice... doing away with morons who make laws that harm the public, rather than protect.

 

Right come on now, it has been said already it's a 'maximum' fine not a fixed penalty notice set amount, or even what you will definitely face if you appear before a magistrate and are found guilty! The comparison to say a drug dealer getting away with £100 fine is just the same as what someone might receive in court as part of a speeding prosecution. BUT drug dealing (Class A) has an 'unlimited' fine imposable, Class B - unlimited fine, Class C - unlimited fine etc etc. If it's some down and out scum bag peddling drugs they will get a fine and or a custodial sentence accordingly. For the bigger fish should they ever be caught, their assets gained through crime can also be taken. Only change with this new £10K limit is that for some of the next level up of wealth, it may no longer be just pocket money for them. At least as also suggested with means based being used a lot this 'may' result in some of the more well off (no talking multi millionaires here) actually receiving a punishment that might impact on them. It could be changed to unlimited fine and it wouldn't make 1pence of difference to you or I in the event. Big question is how many people do you know of who ever received the current max £2500 for speeding on a dual carriageway or motorway?  

 

It was just a slow news day for the media so they peddled this crap to the lemmings.

Right come on now, it has been said already it's a 'maximum' fine not a fixed penalty notice set amount, or even what you will definitely face if you appear before a magistrate and are found guilty! 

 

 

 Most motoring offences are defined as absolute, you only get to the Magistrate if you're appealing the fine.

 

 I wouldn't be overly confident about the POCA either, plenty manage to funnel the money into places where the assets can never be lawfully recovered.

 

What people seem to be missing is that there is already a penal system in place to tackle serial offenders, its called a driving ban. That can be stretched to fit every situation and I still believe its the deed not the breed that needs tackling. Lenient punishment of the criminal class has led to the horror stories we see on a daily basis- heaven knows a forum member has very recently been a victim of mincing justice.

 

A £10,000 fine for speeding... yet burglars, drug dealers, thieves and other general scum get away with £100 fines and suspended sentences. What kind of message does that send?

What next? £1,000,000 fines for having a brake light out? The law needs to be proportionate.

 

 

Actually, it does look pretty proportionate.  It is pretty rare for burglars etc. to cause more than financial harm to others.  It is far from unknown for people driving more quickly than is appropriate to kill others.

 

Which is actually the greater crime?

 Or equip everyone with an 82 Polo. 30 feels like light speed in one of them!

 

Yep. It's the problem with the grannies of today. Driving a modern Micra doesn't give you the same buzz that the previous generation got from trying not to die at the wheel of a bready with rock solid brakes and the same tyres it had on 10 years ago, so they have to resort to hard prescription drugs. 

 

In other news, sold the Polo :(

As a nation we could wipe out huge chunks of the debt by making corporations pay tax instead of pointing and spitting at people on council estates. Might also re-surface some of our shattered road surfaces too

 

But that would have to be balanced with the tax UK registered company's avoid paying to countries where their customers are located. I don't have the figures, but my guess is the difference might not be as huge as you might imagine (if there is a gap at all).

 

Non payment of UK corporation tax has been portrayed (by Labour and the left leaning media) as one way traffic, but it isn't that simple. Believe what Margaret Hodge at the Public Accounts Committee tells you at your peril.

 

Not quite sure who is "pointing and spitting at people on council estates" as a way of reducing the deficit? Bringing down overly generous welfare payments to people who have no intention of working is a responsible and legitimate policy for any government. Making 'not working' at least as, or more, lucrative than certain types of working was an active policy by the last Labour government as a way of garnering political support - it was morally wrong and utterly shameful.

Instead i've chosen to sexually assault, burgle and rob other people

I can't possibly imagine you burgling and robbing people

 

 heaven knows a forum member has very recently been a victim of mincing justice.

 

Can someone tell me what mincing justice is please?

I've googled it and can only find reference to some chinese hackers???

Actually, it does look pretty proportionate.  It is pretty rare for burglars etc. to cause more than financial harm to others.  It is far from unknown for people driving more quickly than is appropriate to kill others.

 

Which is actually the greater crime?

 

Every burglary affects someone. Every person speeding doesn't kill someone.

 

And that's a ridiculous statement anyway - having dealt with numerous burglary victims I can tell you there is more than "financial loss" involved... the psychological effects can be devastating. I've dealt with people who have refused to return to their homes because of fear the intruder may return.

 

 

On a side note: I had my sideskirt stolen from my Corsa GSi back in June 2009... to this day I still run out to my driveway at night if I hear the slightest sound, worried someone might be trying to chore something off my car. I once had a 30 minute stand-off with a badger because I thought it was a thief!

I think you're missing the point.

A £10,000 fine for speeding... yet burglars, drug dealers, thieves and other general scum get away with £100 fines and suspended sentences. What kind of message does that send?

What next? £1,000,000 fines for having a brake light out? The law needs to be proportionate.

I don't think I am.

I agree that the penalty should be proportionate to the crime in the same way that I agree the best football players should be paid more than the rest.

However, inversely, the best football players are paid way too much money in a similar way that the petty crimes are too likely to be got away with.

[Not a great analogy, but I hope you catch my drift!]

It's nonsense like this that further adds to my strong beliefs that all police and national justice systems should be thrown in the bin, allowing local communities to deal with local justice... doing away with morons who make laws that harm the public, rather than protect.

While I'm not sure a system of local laws (imagine each county having a different policy for dealing with speeding...) is the solution, I get your idea and also agree that reform is needed in some respect.

What is needed alongside that is there to be a much higher likelihood of being caught for any crime as opposed to a misguided belief that 'I got away with it last time so I'll get away with it again'. Only next time it will be 35mph rather than 32mph in a 30 (and it'll creep up).

Let's take a really petty crime: illegal number plates. Or doing 31mph in a 30 zone. In the greater scheme of things it doesn't 'harm' anyone but does show that it is clearly possible to break the law and get away with it.

While there is a massive difference between these and even, say, damage to property (for want of a 'minor' crime as way of example), they are all still breaking the law.

This is where I get accused of advocating a 'police state'. What I'm really advocating is that everyone has a social conscience and sticks to the laws without the need for massive penalties. A world in which we respect each other and the law of the land.

"You may say I'm a dreamer..."

Can someone tell me what mincing justice is please?

I've googled it and can only find reference to some chinese hackers???

Its a basic premise of rules enshrined in law, subverted by the need to funnel money into your mate's company, brushed along by recidivist loving tendancies minced in with sentencing guidelines and served as an illusion of punishment.

What I am worried about with motoring laws,and others, is the increasing ability to apply them everywhere and all the time, I am sure when many of these laws were put in place they were there to use when needed and applied to the nut cases who needed rounding up and educating for the good of everybody else. How often do you see a police officer on the many fly on the wall shows saying he usually gives a warning for X. With technology taking over the law will be applied with no exceptions and this is where the fun will start.

Pull onto the drive late one night and accidentally knock the horn and a penalty will be sent out for breaking the no noise after 11 pm law. Drive up the road and pull onto the verge to let an ambulance past and you will get a penalty for driving of the highway.There are now bus lanes and bike lanes and woe betide anybody who puts a wheel on the white line because the gps in your car will register the fact and you will get another penalty. By the time you get home there will be a pile of fines on the mat. Most people will not be able to leave there homes as the cost will exceed their wages. At the moment if a rule is inappropriate for the circumstances the fact its often ignored goes largely unnoticed but this will not always be the case.     

How is anyone going to get caught for this? I do 3 figures on a regular basis and have done for years with no fear of being caught, I particularly like the m6 toll at night.

Hi,

 

In 1973 I used to do Wakefield/London/Wakefield (M1) in a morning on my BMW R75/5 bike with the needle off the clock and felt entirely safe doing so but wouldn't even think of doing such a thing these days because it would simply be too dangerous giving me a much reduced life expectancy? One three mile stretch of main road into Huddersfield has I believe 17 speed cameras and each time I travel it I always think adding drums to the SatNav would give a rather nice tune? What are speed cameras erected for; all the locals know exactly where they are so can speed at will elsewhere; it's the visitors to our area who get caught by these cameras many who are trying to find their way around being distracted? 20mph limits are now cropping up and its fun to see a cyclist pass by. Cars are much safer these days having better brakes and tyres well at least to the occupants but they are not really any safer to stupid pedestrians who insist on wandering around in the road so instead of increasing speed it is now reduced? Road humps; why not just build a wall across the road and solve the problem once and for all?

 

Speed cameras are not there to make money? Funny isn't it that many are located so near a speed reduction not even allowing time to lift of the accelerator before passing the camera. Last year I traveled the 17 speed cameras one Saturday morning at 6:30 and at the very last camera located on New Road; Middlestown (Nr Wakefield) there was a police officer hiding in the graveyard entrance with a radar gun; I passed at 20mph then went on my way.

 

Don't worry too much about these £4,000 speeding fines because convicts with 13 life sentences are now let out on day release only to leg it?

 

Kind regards, Col.

Around our area it is the locals who get caught (3 times in one day by one person)!

And a 30mph sign means you should be doing that speed or less before you get to the sign, not 'lifting your foot' when you get to it.

We live just inside a 30mph with a blind corner just after us, and a bus stop and kids/old people crossing and a postbox. The number of cars that have to hit the brakes in the bend because they 'lifted their foot' at the sign is incredulous.

I estimate (from the records from the SID) that 45% of cars were still speeding 200m after the sign!

Hi,

 

Thanks KBPhoto. Around here the locals know where the speed cameras are so if they do get caught they shouldn't be driving because they are asleep; the person getting caught speeding three times in one day deserves to get fined for stupidity?

 

Speed cameras and all the traffic calming measures will never stop bad driving as in entering a bend too fast and having then to brake hard; I was riding a solo 1,000cc bike aged 18 and learned quickly how to read the road; one accident in 1970 whilst riding my Norton Atlas 750cc bike; hit head on whilst riding in a council estate doing less than 30mph; the car an old Austin A40 was fully iced up it being winter and the driver with a young child on board never even saw me until impact even though I was driving legally with headlight switched on; traffic calming won't stop such people driving? The driver was entering a side road into garages; no indicator and used both sides of the road in the maneuver hence closed the door on me without any warning whatsoever. Later whilst I lay in hospital with a fractured ankle and shattered knee cap this driver visited me to ask if he could claim a car from my insurance because he was having difficulty getting to work?

 

I try my best these days to be a good driver; I like the SatNav because it indicates the speed limit I'm in whereas many road signs become obscured due to foliage so can be missed; audible and visual warnings of speed cameras also help and I drive just below the limit. The ones who do annoy are those who insist on driving in the center of the road at 24mph in a 50mph limit  hogging the road usually where there are double white lines. Perhaps someday in the future the speed of cars will be restricted automatically by SatNav? 

 

Kind regards, Col.

Which is why the new bread of camera measure both fixed location as well as average speeds.

Totally agree. Anyone caught three times by the same camera must be stupid and deserves hefty penalties (which they didn't get).

Bad driving is down to stupidity and so many people get away with it, it makes a mockery of the law.