Hi all just looking for some advice for my father in law.

Four months ago he bought a car from arnold clark the car was only 1 and a half year old and had done 11540 miles. Once he had decided to buy the car he went threw the paper  work with the salesman and the salesman showed him the service book saying its first service was done at another garage and they had recorded the mileage at 29800 and that this was a mistake . As arnold clark done the second service at 11940 anyways 4 months later and only 2000 miles more his friend that is a machanic noticed he was needing new tires he thought this weird as it has only done 13000 miles or so .

He told me this story and i recomended him to call the first garage and this garage confirmd it had 29800 on the clock just under one year old and that they had put new tires on the car.

He has since been back to arnold clark and they are looking in to it .

Where does the blame lie in all of this i would say arnold clark should have made sure the milage was correct the 1st garage owner not arnold clark has gave him a computer print out and has since spoke to arnold clark what should the garage do now to put this right ? He tells me now he does not want the car as he thought it was a nearly new car with low milage. This is not the kind of thing you would expect from a big company like this i have told him to give them there chance sort things out.in the mean time he has still got 4 years of payments to make any advice would be helpfull.thanks in advance.

Anyone who knows anything about cars would never buy from Arnold Clark, more commonly known as Arnold Shark.

Hope your FIL gets a full refund.

While i agree with you to an extent i have in the past bought nearly new cars from them qnd kept them for 7 years and never had a problem. The thing is you would not expect this from a nearly new car or am i wrong here. 

The first garage owner was very surprized that it was bought at arnold clark like myself he said he would expect that kind of thing to happen to small back street garage maybe on a 4 year old car but not in a brand spanking new arnold clark showroom that has not long opend that sell new and nearly new cars. If the salesman had not said anything he would have questiond it but the salesman had said the first garage had tane the milage of the wrong car so he thought it was fine.

Edited 15 September, 201411 yr by firefox2

Get someone to check the mileage stored in the ECU with VCDS if it's a VAG car. The speedo can be clocked but the ECU can't. That should give you more info and proff of clocking.

Thanks for the info if we put it on vcds would that tell us the date the milage was put back? Car is a vw golf

Edited 15 September, 201411 yr by firefox2

Thanks for the info if we put it on vcds would that tell us the date the milage was put back? Car is a vw golf

I don't think it will tell you the date it was clocked, only give you the true mileage.

It doesn't tell you when the mileage was clocked. Also, some ECU's don't support the mileage calculation feature. And then, some shifty people who clock cars also lock out the calculation feature so you can't check the mileage in the ECU.

Personally, if the car is what you want then tell Arnold Clark to have the mileage reset to the correct value it should be, and then get a cash back payment for the reduced vehicle value. That way the future sale value to yourself is not going to be discoloured by trying to sell a clocked car, and you get some cash back, and you get the car you thought was a good car initially.

Rustynuts the car is my father in laws and what you say is a fair point i did mention this to him that i feel that would be the best outcome.Just how much they would offer him i,m not sure on but he said the only reson he bought it was cause it had low milage.

There was a 5 month gap in the services he bought what he thought was a 12000 mile car but infact it could be more like 35000 miles .

The first thing I would do is get onto the garage that did the first service and ask if they can give you a copy of the paperwork.

Then you need to get onto the dealer principle of the garage where he bought the car and explain the problem.

Either get a good cash refund if your father in law if he is happy to do so or ask them to supply a lower mileage replacement at no extra cost to you.

 

To be honest 35,000 in a 2 year old car is nothing to worry about but it would certainly have affected the value.

 

If that dosnt work then go and see CAB and see about getting trading standards involved.

 

If he really dosnt want the car he should contact the finance company as they have a vested interest in the car.

Edited 16 September, 201411 yr by ruffday

Threaten Arnold Clark with the law ! Its illegal to clock a car see how quickly it gets sorted

Threaten Arnold Clark with the law ! Its illegal to clock a car see how quickly it gets sorted

It is not illegal to clock a car (or to adjust the mileage). It's illegal to sell one misrepresented by knowingly showing the mileage as incorrect.

If all else fails go to trading standards. They contacted me after one of my 2 yr old cars which had done 98500 miles (I was repping at the time) was sold with 23000 on the clock. It was in A1 nick and I'd replaced worn pedal rubbers etc but it used a lot of oil! It went to court and the back street garage was fined

As others, I'd be looking for a refund to reflect the actual mileage, but wouldn't be bothered about the mileage itself. Of course, knowing that I do a lowish average annual mileage, buying above average mileage cars is part of my whole strategy.

Mate that difference is not even worth making a fuss about. Once its been backed 265k miles like my mates old Merc, then you have a problem.

Mate that difference is not even worth making a fuss about. Once its been backed 265k miles like my mates old Merc, then you have a problem.

 

Personally I think the fact that it's been clocked is the Problem, 1 mile or a few thousand, the fact is that it's been done

 

Pinch a pound or a grand, it's not the amount that matters it's the fact that you've done it.

When I was in the trade I would have been reluctant to take a clocked car in part exchange. I would certainly have offered a low figure.

Personally I'd return it and ask for a full refund.

I doubt AC clocked the car, this is probably incompetence rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead. A few mentions of local Trading Standards and stories in the local press about AC selling clocked cars should move things along.

 

I've had one decent car from AC but I've had too many run ins with their sales staff who are frankly feral and I won't touch them now.

 

You can get a good deal there but go in with your eyes open and know the rules of the game because you'll need to play them to get that deal.

 

And don't get your car serviced there if you can help it. They make Kwik Fit look like an F1 pit crew.

Edited 16 September, 201411 yr by Aspman

Thanks guys there is a lott of good info there. The garage said they are looking in to it and will call him back.

He already has a print out from the first garage saying it got 4 new tyres and the milage was at 29800 at a year old.

The first garage says arnold clark has been in touch and they have the same info the manager of the first garage said he would stand up in court for him as need be as he said arnold clark were trying to say it was a mistake, he said it was no mistake there was a 4 month gap after the first service and arnold clark getting the car it looks like it was clocked just before it was traded in to arnold.

Thaks for all the info and i,ll lett you guys know the out come.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/consumer_the_vehicle_you_bought_doesnt_match_its_description_e/the_car_you_bought_has_a_false_mileage_reading.htm

If you leave it too long it will be interpreted as you've excepted the mileage and you'll have no redress

Edited 16 September, 201411 yr by seboni121

It is not illegal to clock a car (or to adjust the mileage). It's illegal to sell one misrepresented by knowingly showing the mileage as incorrect.

It's been sold at a dealer as mileage that was on it surely that's illegal ? No it's not illegal to clock a car but it is to sell it as clocked knowing or not

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/consumer_w/consumer_cars_and_other_vehicles_e/consumer_problems_with_the_car_you_bought_e/consumer_the_vehicle_you_bought_doesnt_match_its_description_e/the_car_you_bought_has_a_false_mileage_reading.htm

If you leave it too long it will be interpreted as you've excepted the mileage and you'll have no redress

The right thing to do is to wait for the garage to investigate it and give them there place to sort it out.

He said he was going to wait to friday but i told him not to wait that long they might try and forget all about it.

If it was me id be back down to the garage today he asked to speak to the manager but was told he would need an appointment.

I think he was to soft with this i would be demanding to speak to the manager. They have got to tomorrow i might need to go with him this time lol.

It's been sold at a dealer as mileage that was on it surely that's illegal ? No it's not illegal to clock a car but it is to sell it as clocked knowing or not

No its not, the dealer most likely took in in P/Ex from the previous owner in good faith. It looks likely it was the previous owner who knowingly sold the clocked car. AC simply sold the car, it is not illegal to sell the clocked car unknowingly since they would have been unaware until it was raised by the new buyer. AC are now trying to establish the facts, upon which they will act by offering something to the current owner of the clocked car.

Outcome could be,

Have mileage adjusted to correct figure which will be recorded in the ECU as its a recent car and pay some compensation back to account for new value.

Offer full refund, and take the car back, correct mileage and resell at new price.

I suspect AC will take legal action against the previous keeper for lost revenue.

VCDS will show the true mileage at the top of an autoscan as below.

VIN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Mileage: 211980km/131718miles

AC have failed to take due diligence to check the history of the car with freely available documentation. i.e. the mileage in the service book doesn't match the dash.

 

What outcome does your Father-in-law want? Hand the car back or get a partial (small) refund and the mileage corrected?

 

I'd expect AC to dig its heels in over a return. They'll probably offer free servicing / extended warranty.

The problem with taking legal action is that there has to be proof of the actual clocking knowledge. Not the fact that it was done, but the fact of who did it (had it done) and sold it. For Arnold Clark to take action against the previous owner they'll have to show that he either sold it to them as clocked and knew about it, or that he clocked it in his possession and sold it knowingly clocked. That is going to be very hard to prove. 

At first he said he wanted to give the car back now it sounds like he would keep the car if the price was righ, as he likes the car.

It just depends on how much is offerd i am like you i think they will try and hit him with a 2 year of free services or something like that. If it were my car id be giveing it back to them but thats just me it was faulse advertiseing we will just need to wait and see i told him to keep baddgering the guy and ask to speak to the manager again he is going to phone soon.