Dave and his 1.2tsi - has he undercooked it!

[Tom Tallon]

My first thread on here since I left and went to F30post. So some comment if you will from the experts.

 

My friend Dave annnounced that he was disposing of his 1.9tdi mk 1 and getting a new mk 3.

 

Great news I said. He went on to say that he was getting a 1.2tsi cos' the salesman said it had  plenty of go and he didn't drive very fast anyway.

 

I wondered at that - once in the 1.9tdi he came out of a sideroad ever so slowly and found on the main Newcastle Carlisle road, a Ferrari crossing his bows at a tremendous rate with me a watching front seat passenger!

 

My view is if you drive ever so slowly you may very well need a bit of special oomph for special occasions.

 

Now I'm not suggesting he should trade in( like me) for a BMW 335D with 309 bhp but my old Octavia mk2 with the 1.8 TSI engine had 160 bhp and went like a bird 0-62 in 7.8 secs.

 

So my question is should he have thought more about his driving style or is he in the right car (note it has 105 bhp for a 15 ft. 5 inch saloon)?

 

PS If you want a BMW go for the 330D or the 335d av mpg 43.6 mph or better and 0-62 in 4.8 or 5.3 secs.

 

 

[adder]

PS If you want a BMW go for the 330D or the 335d  0-62 in 4.8 or 5.3 secs.

That must be really useful when you're sitting at the traffic lights with a chavved up Vauxhall Corsa sat next to you 

PS my wife's 1.4 petrol Golf gets better mpg than that, does 0-60 in about 8 secs and can max out at about 135mph. Personally don't see the point of diesels nowadays but each to their own   

[adder]

PS the latest 1.2 has 110ps and I reckon power to weight ratio matters more than length, oooeeerrr Mrs

The online car websites seem to rave about the 1,2 so I guess it must be pretty good  :coffee:

[bouff34]

My first thread on here since I left and went to F30post. So some comment if you will from the experts.

 

My friend Dave annnounced that he was disposing of his 1.9tdi mk 1 and getting a new mk 3.

 

Great news I said. He went on to say that he was getting a 1.2tsi cos' the salesman said it had  plenty of go and he didn't drive very fast anyway.

 

I wondered at that - once in the 1.9tdi he came out of a sideroad ever so slowly and found on the main Newcastle Carlisle road, a Ferrari crossing his bows at a tremendous rate with me a watching front seat passenger!

 

My view is if you drive ever so slowly you may very well need a bit of special oomph for special occasions.

 

Now I'm not suggesting he should trade in( like me) for a BMW 335D with 309 bhp but my old Octavia mk2 with the 1.8 TSI engine had 160 bhp and went like a bird 0-62 in 7.8 secs.

 

So my question is should he have thought more about his driving style or is he in the right car (note it has 105 bhp for a 15 ft. 5 inch saloon)?

 

PS If you want a BMW go for the 330D or the 335d av mpg 43.6 mph or better and 0-62 in 4.8 or 5.3 secs.

So he's not a particularly confident driver and fairly slow and you think this means he should get a more powerful car??? Mmm, can't quite see the logic there...

[themanwithnoaim]

Why am I stuck with the image of late great Rik Mayall's "Dave the cardboard box" yes Rik wrote & narrated that for Jasper Carrott

 

I personally dunno about the 1.2 but, the 1.4 has loads of go in it, as adder posts its frugal too but, as can be seen from my fuelly, it can't be both at the same time.

 

Regards

T

[shrops_paul]

I very much doubt a 1.2 Octavia budget = a BMW 335D Budget, even used, unless its been to the moon and back. Having read the OP twice now I'm not entirely sure what the point is, other than the Ferrari was driving like an eejit or you mate pulled out without looking? Weird Post.

[Tom Tallon]

I very much doubt a 1.2 Octavia budget = a BMW 335D Budget, even used, unless its been to the moon and back. Having read the OP twice now I'm not entirely sure what the point is, other than the Ferrari was driving like an eejit or you mate pulled out without looking? Weird Post.

Sorry Paul I'll say it simply - should he have gone for a bigger engine with at least 140 bhp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I was asking for some one to confirm this as I know nothing about current Octavia driving.

[kopparberg]

Don't care what the experts say 1.2 is poo.

[Rainmaker]

Sorry Paul I'll say it simply - should he have gone for a bigger engine with at least 140 bhp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I was asking for some one to confirm this as I know nothing about current Octavia driving.

 

I think your post needs more exclamation marks to emphasise your point.

 

There's nothing up with the 1.2TSi if he's not wanting to tow a caravan, it's a capable little unit and has plenty of pull. The Octy mk3 might be a long car but it's light; only a bag of spuds difference from a Vauxhall Corsa! He'll get better fuel economy from the 1.2 if he's only pottering around town and if he really does drive as you describe I doubt he'd notice a difference between the 1.2 and 1.4 anyway!

 

For comparison, my last Skoda was a 1.9 PD Superb with 103hp and that was around 1.7 tons. I had that for 3 years and 60k miles, and amazingly I'm still alive. Mostly because I looked before pulling out of junctions or changing lanes, and generally drove like a qualified driver. So I'm pretty confident the marginally higher powered 1.2 will pull a car almost half the weight with ease. 

 

PS. If I was buying a BMW I'd go for the 30i because the economy isn't much different real world, and a fiver a week at the pump is nothing for a proper engine. Yes, even with a username like this. :p

Edited 17 October, 2014 by Derv

[pipsyp]

1.2 is probably a bit quicker than the 1.9 TDI, same sort of power and will be lighter. It will just need to be worked a little harder.

Only downsides I see to small turbocharged petrol from personal experience is that they don't deal so well with being loaded up with weight as a diesel would do, MPG also suffers in such situations also if you work the engine alot to extract it's performance.

Also in fairness (and a bit off topic) a 309hp diesel with those sorts of performance statistics and an average 43mpg has to be applauded. You have to pay 40+k for the privilege though. The M135i with the performance packed version of the 3.0 turbo six petrol has a nicer power plant still (and sounds absolutely out of this world) but driven with intent you'll be lucky to see low 20's out of it, so whilst relatively speaking they are quite affordable to buy they most certainly are not to run.

[Bindinbear]

Horses for courses, you get what you pay for and all that.

Its like the manual v DSG debate. We could be here all day!

Very few car companies now make a really 'bad' car. Provided you buy to suit YOUR needs/budget as a driver.

We all want a car that is cheap to buy, built like a tank, loads of toys, does 60+ mpg and 0-60 in less than 5 seconds etc, life is a compromise mostly.

[Geek42]

Very few car companies now make a really 'bad' car. Provided you buy to suit YOUR needs/budget as a driver.

 

Agreed. I was talking to my old man a few weeks ago comparing the Octy 1.2 to my first car, a 'J'-plate ('91) Cavalier 2.0i. Fuel injection was optional in those days, and beneath the 115bhp version that I had were 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 engines, some carb and some injected, mostly less than 100bhp, so the 2.0i was quite high up the pecking order. In fact, the engine was the pokiest you could get in a Cavalier without buying a sporty version (16v was a sports item back then).

 

Fast forward to 2014 and we've been through the bloat years and cars are getting lighter again. The mk3 Octy is not dissimilar in size to that Cavalier, and (iirc) in 1.2TSi form it weighs about the same, has similar torque, similar power, similar 0-60 time, has much better kit in it, handles better, is quieter and is generally a vastly superior car. Except what we're looking at now is basically bottom of the range!

 

'Nobody makes a bad car any more' I said, and I got a 45 minute lecture about the days when 0-60 in 15 seconds was quick for a family car, under 10 seconds was supercar territory, your points needed resetting every fortnight and if you took holidays in Wales or the lake district you were pretty well guaranteed to have to push your car up a hill at some point.

 

I think he was agreeing with me, but I'm not sure?!

[expostmanpat]

Worst I have bought a BMW thread ever.

[Geek42]

Just to weigh in a little further on the weight thing, I also like the Corsa plus a bag of spuds comment, this isn't hyperbole. My Octy weighs something like 150kg less than my old Focus and is within 50kg of my wife's Clio. And with the light pressure turbo the torque will be available from very low revs.

 

Indeed, with the torque peaking so low in the rev band and falling off at the top I would say that there are aspects of the driving experience in my 1.4 that are a little diesel-like, specifically when compared to 16v petrol engines of yesteryear with peak torque at high rpm. It certainly doesn't need working hard to get the performance and I assume the 1.2 would be the same.

[littleade]

I'd let your mate decide what engine is best for him by having a decent test drive, not some salesman who just wants to sell him a new car. The 1.4 is obviously more money so maybe the salesman thinks he stands a better chance of selling him one with the smaller engine as the cost to change will be more attractive. If he's as slow as you say having the 1.4 may actually create problems in other situations as it will accelerate faster than the 1.2 so could he cope with the situation unfolding in front of him that this could create.

[CainDingle]

Just to weigh in a little further on the weight thing, I also like the Corsa plus a bag of spuds comment, this isn't hyperbole. My Octy weighs something like 150kg less than my old Focus and is within 50kg of my wife's Clio. And with the light pressure turbo the torque will be available from very low revs.

 

Indeed, with the torque peaking so low in the rev band and falling off at the top I would say that there are aspects of the driving experience in my 1.4 that are a little diesel-like, specifically when compared to 16v petrol engines of yesteryear with peak torque at high rpm. It certainly doesn't need working hard to get the performance and I assume the 1.2 would be the same.

 

I'd agree with this. All your pull in the 1.4 seems to come before 4000 and the 1.2 (which I test drove) didn't seem to be much different. And 1st is geared so short that there won't be much between 'em in terms of how quickly you can blast out of a junction and get up to pace with the maniac you've just cut up. I think the difference probably comes when putting your foot down in high gear.

 

I wanted the Elegance so got the 1.4 but other than that the only deciding factor was that we lug loads of stuff up and down the motorway on a regular basis - for which, by all accounts, the 1.4 is the better engine (as you'd imagine). But I don't think I'd have been disappointed with a 1.2 for everyday driving.

 

By the way Tom, I reckon I know exactly the junction on the A69 you're talking about - an elderly guy pulled out in front of me on the way to the Lakes a few months ago in a similar fashion and I had to take evasive action. If there'd been contraflow traffic it would've been, as they say, 'game over'. Beautiful scenery, dangerous road.

[Phil-E]

If you compare the new octavia 1.2 to mk1 1.9 110:

 

103bhp vs 110bhp

175nm vs 235nm

1155kg vs 1400kg

0-60 10.0 vs 0-60 10.9

122mph vs 120mph

57mpg vs 54mpg

 

So it's actually going to be faster than his old MK1 1.9.

 

Should be just fine!

 

Phil

[LiamONeill]

I wanted the Elegance so got the 1.4 but other than that the only deciding factor was that we lug loads of stuff up and down the motorway on a regular basis - for which, by all accounts, the 1.4 is the better engine (as you'd imagine). But I don't think I'd have been disappointed with a 1.2 for everyday driving.

I've not driven the 1.2 but I did take a test drive in a 1.0 Focus recently. As you say, for day-to-day driving that would have worked without problem, especially if you stick to speed limits. Where the 1.4 was better though was in overtaking on A and B roads and lane changing on the motorway.  The extra push in the 1.4, especially when you are already at 70+ mph makes changing lane into gaps much easier and less stressful. The 1.0lt Ford wasn't happy with that and I suspect the 1.2 Octavia would have the same issue. Neither is insurmountable but I like being able to overtake and change lane without needing to plan it all far in advance. 

[CainDingle]

Absolutely. Having that 'bit extra' when there's an A6 in your boot in lane 3 so you can finish your overtake and get back over more quickly is very useful. I was actually surprised at the kind of torque you can get over 70 in 6th from the 1.4.

[Falkster]

Worst I have bought a BMW thread ever.

...or best barbeque cookery thread ever...and yes, my dad frequently under cooks it!

[Tom Tallon]

Worst I have bought a BMW thread ever.

There was a time when briskoda gave every serious post a dignified answer? Perhaps you Octy 3 owners are bringing in an unruly element.

but hey I see why twasme , you've missed out the letter "t" from the fourth letter of your pen name!

[bichti]

There was a time when briskoda gave every serious post a dignified answer?

Yes, that's changed now. These days the post has to be serious AND have an actual point. I think yours failed at least one of the criteria.

No excuse for the insult in your last post though which I'm sure will be removed in due course.

[Tom Tallon]

Yes, that's changed now. These days the post has to be serious AND have an actual point. I think yours failed at least one of the criteria.

No excuse for the insult in your last post though which I'm sure will be removed in due course.

 

 

Sorry to all, particularly twasme. In being a clever sides  I went over the top. In fairness the constructive posts have given me exactly the answer I looked for eg the very good post comparing the 1.9tdi and tthe new 1.2tsi.

[expostmanpat]

There was a time when briskoda gave every serious post a dignified answer? Perhaps you Octy 3 owners are bringing in an unruly element.

but hey I see why twasme , you've missed out the letter "t" from the fourth letter of your pen name!

Serious??

 

Ah well never mind, as for bringing an unruly element to Brisky, if you took stock you might notice I have been doing that for the last 10 years.

 

Never mind apology accepted.

 

FWIW I drive a mk 2 1.4 octy estate, which iir is around 120 bhp. I did have some concerns coming from a series of modded and std vRS's as well as other sporty cars, but apart from acceleration from 60 to xxx I have found the little 1.4 to be brilliant. Quick off the mark, fine cruiser even on the autobahn, just that overtaking at highspeed needs a drop down the box and is still a little lacking especialy on hills but hey what do you expect? I am usually travelling with a fair load and regularly average 45 mpg.

[bletch]

I have the 1.2 105 and its not undergunned in the Octavia. Of cource its no racer, however it has no problem keeping up with traffic and also have some extra oomph. I came from 1.9 TDI in Roomster, and the 1.2 is actually faster. Never mind more sofisticated and silent. However you dont get the extra push the 1.9 had. That is because 1.2 is accelerating more steady from 1500 rpm up to 6000 (although you change gear sooner than 6000 rpm). Where the 1.9 was slow at first, then pulled hard before loosing power again.

 

I also had a Fabia 1.4 mpi with some 65 bhp. THAT was undercooked. When approaching a hill I had to plan in advance, close the windows, turn off AC, raise the sail, pray to the gremlins and pull in my stomach (to loose weight) and still could not keep my speed up... You could literally see the red hate in the BMW and Audi drivers eyes 1 mm up my back.....

 

1.2 TSI are a completely different story and its also fast enough to actually have "some" fun in. For an ordinary driver its plenty enough. Of cource you have to go down a gear when in 6th crusing on motorway if overtaking. Otherwise its perfectly fine also packed with my family going on summer holiday.

 

I can understand a 300 bhp BMW driver would raise question about it, but on the other hand that is really strange because that are 2 completely different cars for different people. You know most people does not NEED 300bhp?

 

My advice is to let your friend alone and let him enjoy the 1.2 TSI not having you complaining about the small engine. And then he will do just fine.

(Hope I am not insulting you, that is really not my intention).

 

The 1.2 is comparable to bigger engines in heavier cars. Octavia 1.2 weights about 1170 kg. I live in Norway that have an insane high tax for large engines, so most Audi A4 have either 1.6/1.9 TDI or 2.0 136 bhp diesel in a 1600kg heavy car. VW Passat are most common with 1.6 TDI 105 or same 2.0 TDI and Mercedes have their 136 bhp diesel in their heavy car. 1.2 TSI in Octavia is faster than all those cars. Take a look at Youtube and search Octavia 1.2 acceleration. You will be surprised.

 

Of cource, if packed up mpg IS affected, but only by a margin. Go from lets say 52 to 50 mpg.

 

However, as I love cars I sometimes wish I had a bigger engine. Happens when sitting at home dreaming of a 50000£ VRS (expensive in Norway). But I never think that when actually driving the car. Then it always feel decent enough.

 

So all in all I am very happy with it. And for its price, its a winner.