Bless:

 

http://www.carscoops.com/2014/10/swedish-mag-says-awd-honda-cr-v-is-more.html

 

 

And the exact same thing happened in this old video I posted four years ago:

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/159259-4x4-systems-tested/

 

So it seems to me those "clever" Honda engineers can perhaps design good engines, but they have no idea how a 4x4 system should work.

 

That seems very odd. The front wheels are spinning but the car doesn't even roll back? Looks like the handbrake is on to me

 

Now, do it properly with rollers for 3 wheels You will see 90% of crossovers fail that one.

That seems very odd. The front wheels are spinning but the car doesn't even roll back? Looks like the handbrake is on to me

 

Now, do it properly with rollers for 3 wheels You will see 90% of crossovers fail that one.

 

Will you?

Any evidence?

Will you?

Any evidence?

 

Just watch my original video Graham: the 2007 Haldex on that VW Passat failed the "one wheel with traction only" test very convincingly.

Yes, because the front and rear diffs are completely open and the EDL often is not applied to the rear wheels. Pre Gen 5 Haldex vehicles fail because of that.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=awd+3+roller+test

Well I know the Freelander would drive on one wheel, as I've done it.

The VCU and the electronic braking system allowed it, and I'm sure the Yeti works the same.

I didn't say all, just most and the Freelander is one I'd expect to work properly. Its not exactly one of the toy SUVs. It also uses a custom version of Haldex that is LR specific. I can't find anything on the Yeti specifically, but Haldex equipped Octavia IIs, like the Passat, have no EDL on the rear wheels.

Well the Yeti certainly works when it's "cross axled". Done it a few times.

Well I know the Freelander would drive on one wheel, as I've done it.

The VCU and the electronic braking system allowed it, and I'm sure the Yeti works the same.

  

I didn't say all, just most and the Freelander is one I'd expect to work properly. Its not exactly one of the toy SUVs. It also uses a custom version of Haldex that is LR specific. I can't find anything on the Yeti specifically, but Haldex equipped Octavia IIs, like the Passat, have no EDL on the rear wheels.

I think Llanigraham is referring to Freelander 1 which doesn't have a Haldex fitted, but a VCU (viscous Coupling Unit).

A 1996 design....

That seems very odd. The front wheels are spinning but the car doesn't even roll back? Looks like the handbrake is on to me

 

Now, do it properly with rollers for 3 wheels You will see 90% of crossovers fail that one.

 

Later in the video the handbrake is released and the car just rolls backwards down the slope with the front wheels still going forwards.

The handbrake is never on - have a read of Honda's response to the video.

You can see the rear wheels twitch slightly, so the handbrake can't be on.

It's called 'dual pump system' and it's like an early version of Haldex where it is 100% FWD until slip is detected at which point a clutch is supposed to engage the rear axle, although this doesn't seem to either transmit nearly enough power to the rear axle or perhaps there is too much slip on the front axle that it won't engage the rear axle for fear of damaging itself.

 

Either way it doesn't appear to be a useful system.

It must only be the cars over the last few years. I had two CRV's the last being a 56 plate and they were great in any adverse conditions requiring 4 wheel drive. Never got stuck once in really bad snow even with summer tyres.

It must only be the cars over the last few years. I had two CRV's the last being a 56 plate and they were great in any adverse conditions requiring 4 wheel drive. Never got stuck once in really bad snow even with summer tyres.

 

If you watch the video in the thread I posted in the opening post you will see the previous CRV was also incapable of doing this...

It's called 'dual pump system' and it's like an early version of Haldex where it is 100% FWD until slip is detected at which point a clutch is supposed to engage the rear axle, although this doesn't seem to either transmit nearly enough power to the rear axle or perhaps there is too much slip on the front axle that it won't engage the rear axle for fear of damaging itself.

 

Either way it doesn't appear to be a useful system.

 

Paraphrasing the Honda response a bit, they say that their system limits the maximum torque to the rear axle to prevent overheating, so that in a situation where the front wheels have zero grip it doesn't move all the power to the rears.

 

However, it looks like it should move a bit more than it does.

 

I'm always unsure how likely this situation is in reality. If you're driving with a reasonable expectation of slippery conditions surely you'd have the right tyres on, so you'd be very unlikely to completely lose traction on both front wheels? It's a bit like those videos where they put marbles and mobile phones and such into a blender to show how powerful and robust it is, but never show it chopping food...

It must only be the cars over the last few years. I had two CRV's the last being a 56 plate and they were great in any adverse conditions requiring 4 wheel drive. Never got stuck once in really bad snow even with summer tyres.

I doubt those conditions match those of the test ramp though; even in snow you'll have some degree of traction, yet on the rollers on the ramp there is zero traction.

The test ramp probably isn't a very good representation of real world challenges for the average driver.

The test ramp probably isn't a very good representation of real world challenges for the average driver.

 

Probably not.  BUT if a car can manage that then surely it is better in the real world? And certainly better than thinking you're buying a 4x4, when in actual fact the Honda seems to be anything but.

Probably not.  BUT if a car can manage that then surely it is better in the real world? And certainly better than thinking you're buying a 4x4, when in actual fact the Honda seems to be anything but.

 

I don't think I've ever driven up a ramp with rollers, nor have I ever been in the situation of having no momentum, no traction whatsoever on the front wheels and perfect traction on the rears.

 

It's an interesting test, certainly, but I am unconvinced that it matters even one jot in the situations for which the CRV is designed. If I was really going to be driving in situations where two or more wheels have absolutely zero grip then I'd get something with "mechanical" diff locks. And great big knobbly tyres. And a roll cage, and a winch.

 

This simply isn't what people buy crossovers for (with a few notable exceptions). That most of them are more capable offroad than their owners suspect is a bonus!

Probably not.  BUT if a car can manage that then surely it is better in the real world?

I agree. Just saying that because the car fails so badly on the ramp doesn't mean it will fail so badly in more realistic conditions, where there is some grip, as per spottydog's situations.

Last time I was at Gaydon we went on the Land Rover experience in a Disco 4. At one point we stopped on a slippery slope going up hill and only the front offside wheel had grip, and that was polished concrete so not great. Surprise surprise it just drove up it. There might have been rollers there for the other 3 wheels. Don't remember now.

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Doesn't it 'drive' the rollers which quantifies bhp and torque and the car doesn't interpret that as slipping therefore no rear drive......just a thought.

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No, as the rollers are free running, it senses that those wheels are spinning.

I've done exactly the same in a Freelander at LR.

Seems more than odd.

What's the point if the rears don't engage?

Seems more than odd.

What's the point if the rears don't engage?

 

Sorry, but I don't think you are getting the situation that Mike and I are describing.

In my case we put a Freelander on 3 free rolling skates, so that 2 rear wheels and one front wheel were not on the floor and also had no resistance. Therefore they were able to spin when drive was given. We then drove the Freelander around a slalom course (flat concrete) with only the ONE front wheel providing drive. Mike's description sounds very similar.

We could have done the same with just one rear wheel only was on the floor. It just provides proof that they can be driven in one wheel drive.

If you did something similar with a normal 2 wheel car, and had one of the driven wheels on the rollers the car would not move because the diff would automatically transfer the drive to the "free" wheel.