aNot been asked for a while... APR vs Revo vs Shark vs any others!

[Philc999]

Looking for a stage 1 for my CR170 Octavia.

I know it's been asked before, but I can't find anything recent.

 

In addition, any north west based dealers that you can recommend would be useful also.

[Brimma]

I very much doubt you'll come across anyone who has had all of them to make a proper comparison, so you'll probably end up with lots of very individual answers

I went for Shark myself, but have no experience of the others

[DarrellGB]

Looking for a stage 1 for my CR170 Octavia.

I know it's been asked before, but I can't find anything recent.

 

In addition, any north west based dealers that you can recommend would be useful also.

  

I very much doubt you'll come across anyone who has had all of them to make a proper comparison, so you'll probably end up with lots of very individual answers

I went for Shark myself, but have no experience of the others

Exactly, you'll get everyone's "best £££ I ever spent", I'm with Brimma on reccomending Shark, they just don't chase big numbers. As a little experiment they asked me to take it to a local rolling road to see what figures they gave. According to them it's putting out 159bhp!! I know all RR'ds are slightly different but an extra 10bhp?. I like that they would rather err on the side of caution and produce smooth, progressive results and I've never heard them slagging off the opposition.

[Stu08]

I've just had a Shark Stage 2 map applied. What a revelation it has been; super smooth, like standard, however when the boost comes in it changes character and goes! I'd heavily recommend Shark. 

 

Unfortunately I have no experience of the others.

[999pooch]

I have had both Shark & Revo.

Both maps were good, but ultimately it comes down to customer service & my local REVO dealer was superb.

Nothing too much trouble & always service with a smile

[Gizmo]

This thread may help as he has tried several people before. (post No. 3 for the info about remaps)

 

I am also a very happy Shark customer.

[RichC]

APR £349

Shark £499

REVO???

I have booked my stage 1 in with Shark due to location and I also want there DSG remap.

[YellowCar]

I'm enjoying my Elite stage 1 performance map, done in Wales by Evans but they're based in Leeds I think with dealers dotted around.

[Brimma]

I've just had a Shark Stage 2 map applied. What a revelation it has been; super smooth, like standard, however when the boost comes in it changes character and goes! I'd heavily recommend Shark.

Unfortunately I have no experience of the others.

Stage 2 on a CR170? How does that differ from a stage 1?

[Stu08]

Stage 2 on a CR170? How does that differ from a stage 1?

 

Hi Brimma,

 

My car is a 2.0 TFSI; however, as difference goes between stage 1 and stage 2 on the petrol.............I turned up with a clutch which worked fine and drove home with a slipping clutch! The clutch is standard and on 118,000 miles so I fully expected, and would go as far as saying wanted the old clutch to wear as quick as possible so I can fit my new Helix set-up.

[Brimma]

Hi Brimma,

My car is a 2.0 TFSI; however, as difference goes between stage 1 and stage 2 on the petrol.............I turned up with a clutch which worked fine and drove home with a slipping clutch! The clutch is standard and on 118,000 miles so I fully expected, and would go as far as saying wanted the old clutch to wear as quick as possible so I can fit my new Helix set-up.

Thanks for clarifying that

You confused me (easily done) as the OP was asking about the CR170

[Stu08]

Thanks for clarifying that

You confused me (easily done) as the OP was asking about the CR170

 

My bad actually; I somehow missed that part, I'd be confused too haha.

[wja96]

I've had Shark, MTM and Richard Washbrook. All fine.

APR seem to generate lots of unhappy customer threads. I've only seen 1 unhappy Shark customer thread and that was a bloke having a go because Shark wouldn't map the car to a level of tune they considered too risky. The same guy then ended up at APR and had to pay for them to rebuild the engine. Now, that is a very short version of what happened, but it is factual.

[BlueVRSTom]

Shark!

As all the reasons above.

[vrsadz]

Shark performance all the way

[vRSy]

I've had Shark, MTM and Richard Washbrook. All fine.

APR seem to generate lots of unhappy customer threads. I've only seen 1 unhappy Shark customer thread and that was a bloke having a go because Shark wouldn't map the car to a level of tune they considered too risky. The same guy then ended up at APR and had to pay for them to rebuild the engine. Now, that is a very short version of what happened, but it is factual.

Wow!!

That's bending the truth! Factual lol

Firstly the reason I changed from Shark is here http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/227293-jabbasport-custom-remap/#entry2673061 and was NOT to do with getting more power. I actually changed to Jabbasport from Shark and nor APR.

Next bit of rubbish in your post..... i did not pay a penny into the rebuild apart from the uprated pistons which were my choice to upgrade over stock. All labour was free as was all the servicing.

The only reason I chose to pay for those pistons was how could i possibly prove who caused the piston rings to fail? Was it shark running doing their R&D or the high boost? Was it jabbasport doing their R&D? Was it APR doing their stage 3 R&D and the extra power, was it the water meth injection? or was it the flaw that was inherrant in the standard engine? Look back at my buile thread and you'll see i was suffering with excessive white smoke with the shark map so it might have been an issue that was there on the car from the offset.who knows. ..i dont that's for sure hence why i paid.

Edited 26 November, 2014 by vRSy

[wja96]

This is the thread you quoted...

A bit of background

You probably already know, but i donated my car to Shark Performance to have them develop a remap for the 1.4TSI back May last year in return for a F.O.C remap. I had been on the look out for a map and at the time was torn between APR and Shark for the job, Shark made the offer of no cost for development, to which i jumped at the opportunity. Saved me about £400....

Why i changed map

The heat issues were reduced but not omitted, and i had started to get plumes of grey/white smoke from the exhaust at times but never consistently, if anything it was when the car had been driven for prolonged periods. Shark believed the turbo to be on the way out which is never good news, but i thought well if its going to go pop, then its going to go pop. I might as well look into upgrading/recondition the turbo to be stronger and flow more to make some more power at the same time.

Shark believed this was not an option as the fueling system was maxed out and said they could map a hybrid on, but warned that they expected it to spit all of the pistons out when the injectors fail to flow enough fuel etc, however i was aware of many other tuning companies such as APR and other euro tuners had already done this with no fueling issues.

So based on that passage from your own thread, you wanted more power but Shark declined, and they said that fitting a hybrid would cause the car to "spit all of the pistons out".

After JabbaSport you went to APR for a hybrid at which point the car spat out all of it's pistons. Which you paid to have repaired.

I'm not sure what part of my post isn't factual, based on your own accounts of what happened.

You're still the only person ever to post up complaining about Shark, as far as I know. And even then you were only having a go because they wouldn't do what you wanted. When you eventually found someone to do what you wanted, the engine blew and you paid for the privilege.

What part of your own story have I got wrong?

[vRSy]

.

What part of your own story have I got wrong?

Did you not read the next paragraph?

I had also been logging temperatures and other parameters where i found fueling to be relatively low on the high pressure side with plenty of headroom and boost to be very high. The map requested over 2Bar(29psi) of boost of which is massively higher than this turbo is rated at resulting in the car only managing to make 1.6Bar(23psi). Looking at the N75 duty cycle which was showing 100% over the whole rev range you can see the turbo was running at its absolute maximum all of the time trying to manage the requested 2 Bar and not even getting close. Normally when the car makes the requested boost the N75 duty cycle will drop down to 75-80%ish. This to me was the likely cause of the grey/white

So despite shark saying fueling was the issue it was evident from my datalogging and revo,apr and jabbasport who ask cataloged my car with the shark software that the car wasnt anywhere near is fueling limits but the shark was running way over its boost limits.

The boost was my deciding point in the swap.

Also it was one piston ans it was the piston ring not the piston. The same issue inherent on the standard engine hence why stock engines are replaced on many cars and pistons upgraded. FWIW my APR stage 3 map ran 1.4 bar boost (turbo rated at 1.8bar).the shark stage 2 requested 2Bar boost (stock turbo Maxed out at 1.6 bar)..... go figure!

As for me be being the only bad review! That's not true there were a few of us on this forum and the gti forum with the 1.4TSI, 2.0 TFSI etc. But you will get that with every tuner. No one is perfect

That's said i really liked ben. Top guy great customer relations but I felt really let down and voiced my opinion. He didn't cost me any money so i had nothing to gain other than pass on my experiences.

Your giving the stereotypical fan boy response of my favourite tuner can do no wrong.

I'm not fussed about you recommending shark or knocking apr.I couldn't care less. Im in a mountuned ST now do is irrelevant. I just wanted to point out your post was not factual as you said it was.

Me personally I would give RTEC a try. They have been doing amazing things over the last 3 years.

Edited 27 November, 2014 by vRSy

[wja96]

As was explained to you at the time in several threads, and is explained on the Rosstech website, the value you were reading for boost includes atmospheric pressure (1bar) which must be deducted from the figure on the screen.

And you didn't know most of the other stuff until AFTER you went to JabbaSport.

You wanted to tune your car further and Shark said no. The evidence is there in your own posts on here and on various other VAG forums.

You had your car tuned with a hybrid turbo by APR and, just as Shark predicted, there was a piston related issue (whether it was the pistons or the piston rings that failed is semantics).

You paid APR money to rebuild your engine.

You're dancing about but the bottom line is everything I posted is correct. I can quote other threads on other VAG forums where you gave been inconsistent about what you paid APR for. You now claim it was updated pistons. OK, but that wasn't always what you claimed. If the facts supplied by you vary from time to time don't be surprised if people quote them back at you.

[vRSy]

Your on form and evidently mentally lacking!

 

Here is the evidence (all taken from my posts on this forum)

 

 

As was explained to you at the time in several threads, and is explained on the Rosstech website, the value you were reading for boost includes atmospheric pressure (1bar) which must be deducted from the figure on the screen.
 

Those figures were I quoted were already minus atmospheric (Again).  Either way, would it matter?  Look at the delta between the requested and achieved boost profile (heres some pictures/graphs because evidently you lack the ability to read and more importantly digest words!)  So if we talking with atmospheric the car was requesting 3Bar+ without 2Bar+ .  Do you need me to explain anything else, or can you bend your mind around that? (http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/248060-new-custom-map/?hl=%2Bboost#entry3049965)

 

Shark Stage 2

Jabba Stage 2

Do you notice the distinct difference in the mapping styles.  One ramped the boost up way above the achievable otuput of the turbo (so of course they couldn't foresee any further tuning potential in my car if thats how they made their power as their software was already maxed out).  The other went for a much lower achievable boost which ran lower IATs, lower fueling, and lower boost, (And made more peak power!)

 

For reference, this was my car running the standard map

As for i wasnt aware f this, I logged the car with VCDS myself before I even approached Jabbasport.  And yes Jabbasport even logged the car themselves and I quote "were horrified" with the way it had been mapped.

 

Your turn....

 

 

FAO Ben@ Shark.  My apologies, i didn't want to bring any of this back up again, its already been done before, im merely trying to correct said individuals post where he has made alleged "factual" posts which evidently are nthing of the sort.

Edited 28 November, 2014 by vRSy

[wja96]

Sorry - I fail to see how any of that affects my original assertion that Shark declined to tune it beyond what they considered safe and you went elsewhere?

Or that while tuned by APR it suffered damage pretty much exactly as predicted by Shark?

Or that you paid money to have the engine rebuilt?

You can add random and somewhat spurious detail as you will but my original assertions were absolutely factual.

As for my mental faculties, they're fine thanks. My sense of smell is also fully operational and that fish I'm smelling isn't shark.

[vRSy]

You are correct that shark said they didn't think it could be taken any further with tuning. But the reason i changed software was not to do with more power it was to do with a dangerous map and excessive smoke.

I find it bizarre that your informing me of the reason why I changed!

Bored of this now. It's only getting childish and tit for tat. Lovely to chat ......

Edited 28 November, 2014 by vRSy

[wja96]

Unfortunately you're not saying the same thing now that you said then. One of the problems you face is that you posted so much stuff back then that you obviously don't remember half the stuff you posted and I'm afraid I've already quoted your own posts where you said that you asked Shark to do the work and they refused so you went elsewhere.

Unless you were getting two free remaps developed simultaneously by Shark and JabbaSport then you couldn't possibly have known all the stuff you posted after you went to JabbaSport and you now state was the reason to change.

You have posted several times that you went to JabbaSport because you had read that they, APR and several other European tuners could do a hybrid upgrade which Shark said would damage the car.

You can't refute that even though you seem to be trying very hard for some reason?

[Yeti_Man]

Looking for a stage 1 for my CR170 Octavia.

I know it's been asked before, but I can't find anything recent.

 

In addition, any north west based dealers that you can recommend would be useful also.

Right, so getting back to the question that was asked by the OP... Everyone will be supporting a specific 'camp'. Personally, I'm a Shark fanboy. I've had jabbasport, multiple Revo maps, super chips, Celtic tuning maps... Shark are the best on two fronts IMO. Firstly their software is the best. Obvious to me in the way the car performs on the road and the way it achieves it. It's easy on the drivetrain unlike previous maps I've had from others and is the best at low, mid AND top end improvements. Secondly, the company themselves - very good after sales. Still interested in any questions/queries once they've had your money and just seem to treat the customer right. More specifically relevant to the OP I've spent a bit of time at Shark HQ whilst my cars been in for work. Two of the 'keenest' customers I spoke to in in the reception areas where 170cr owners - both having had the stage one upgrade and both over the moon with what had been achieved.

[Watsona6]

There is a place in Chorley near you. Never used them but the web link is;

http://www.wg-tuning.co.uk/