Hello,

I've been thinking about changing my X-Type Jag for a Octavia Estate (2.0 SE, 150)for a while and test drove one today. I can't say it excited me but it was a pleasant drive. Discussions with the dealer have caused me concern though and I thought it would be worth obtaining confirmation or correction. What I've been told is;

 

Service intervals

Two yearly or 20,000 miles whichever is sooner.

 

Cam belt

Change every four years along with the tensioner and water pump. Cost around £500.00?

 

My concern is with the cam belt etc. Is it really every four years? My wife's car (13 year old Ford Focus) only has the belt changed every 10 years.

 

Also, what antifreeze is recommended? If it's silicate free I would expect the water pump to last many years.

 

As I was also offered a crazy low trade in for the Jag I'm thinking it would be cheaper to keep it.

I think the main thing with cam belts is whether you have a conventional or a chain belt type. My last car was a Ford Mondeo which had a metal chain cam belt which would last virtually indefinitely, maybe the Focus has something similar but most manufacturers err on the side

of caution and advise you to change cam belts after a stipulated mileage or time period. Can't comment on the £500 price but it does seem kind of high for a glorified rubber band but do know that labour costs account for a large part of this price and can't see why water pump would

need changed so soon either, the actual part won't be that expensive and could probably be installed by an independent garage for rather less than that price as the car will be out of warranty if it is 4 years old anyway and the pump could probably be ignored if it is okay.

 

It would have been better to have used the metal belt setup but that probably costs a bit extra and would not impress buyers of a brand new car as much as a nice stereo or fancy alloy wheels. These things only sink in when you're faced with the cost of getting the work done and the

risks are too great to ignore, if your cam belt needs changed, don't take that risk, a friend did that and totalled the diesel engine in her VW Polo, RIP one VW Polo!

 

The value of your Jaguar depends on age and condition but think that the X type was pretty much a Jaguar branded Mondeo in many ways, if it is going well and you enjoy it, it might pay you to keep it a bit longer and run it into the ground or try to sell it privately if you can. Garages will only pay strong money

for cars that they know they can sell easily and for a good profit, if your car can't be sold on from their forecourt all they are going to do is give you a conservative trade in based on what they think it will sell for at auction. The trade in bit is always the painful part of buying any new car but however it works the

only number that really matters is the cost to change, they always fiddle around with the numbers to suit themselves anyway. If you tend to keep your cars for a while it might pay you to think about a zero or low interest PCP deal and just choose to buy the car at or near the end of the agreed period, saves having to

stump up all the money upfront or having to borrow the money from a bank.

Service intervals

Two yearly or 20,000 miles whichever is sooner.

 

Cam belt

Change every four years along with the tensioner and water pump. Cost around £500.00?

 

My concern is with the cam belt etc. Is it really every four years? My wife's car (13 year old Ford Focus) only has the belt changed every 10 years.

Certainly on the Mk2 it was change the cambelt and water pump every four years. Had mine done in late 2010; the local Skoda dealer wanted £380 to do the job, a very good VAG specialist near my office did it for £260. If £500 is the current dealership rate I'd imagine that you could probably get it done for £350 elsewhere.

 

Little surprised about the service interval quoted too.

Servicing can be set at fixed 1 year and 10000 mile intervals, or variable which is up to 20k and 2 years depending on your driving style and conditions.
If you do a fair amount of motorway miles you'll get close to 20k, but not if you are always in town driving hard.

 

Cam belt intervals are correct, but the price seems high.

Service interval on my vw van (2l 140ps) is 2 years or 25k

The older engines used to have a weak water pump, it would shear the impeller and then the cam belt would loose tension, so they recommended changing the water pump at the same time..... But I thought this was on the 1.9 PD engine

The cambelt interval on my van is 140k, so I would be surprised is that info was correct

As to the x-type, unfortunately it'll be one of those cars that doesn't tick enough boxes, skint family's will want a 10yo focus, richer family's will get newer, kids couldn't insure it, too old for forecourt...... So the niche is possibly someone who does loads of motorway miles, but can't afford a newer car, but then PCP makes that possible.... So your car becomes worthless

I may be wrong on any of the above though

John

The bulk of the can belt cost is labor. They recommend replacing the water pump at the same time because the labor required is essentially the same, so you only pay for the part. That way you shouldn't have to pay £500 for a new pump. Also, that price seems appropriate for a dealer. The interval seems a little low, but I'm not as familiar with diesels.

The 1.4 has a lifetime belt that should only require inspection.

Thanks for the replies.

 

I guess the cam belt saga is the same here as it is with my motorbike (24 year old Honda GL1500 Goldwing, over 100k miles). Honda UK say change every couple of years. Honda America who, after all, only built the bike, say "inspect every 100k miles". Open warfare often breaks out on the Goldwing forums between the US and the UK on that point. As the Americans point out there, the only people who appear to have trouble with their belts are the people who have changed them (We tend to do it ourselves).

 

People often say the X is a Jag badged Mondeo. Only 18% of the car is Mondeo (The engine, basic chassis and heated front windscreen).

 

I'll only do around 7k miles per year. This is a retirement car.

My last car was a Ford Mondeo which had a metal chain cam belt which would last virtually indefinitely.

 

Yes, I had one of those and it went wrong, resulting in a wrecked engine. I believe that the original fault was with the tensioner, but nothing was ever confirmed. I've had a multitude of other cars with belts and never had a problem, so the not-quite-indestructible chain is not a panacea.

 

As somebody else said the 1.4 petrol version (which I would highly recommend, considering your mileage) has a so called "lifetime" belt.

 

Somebody else also pointed out the two service regimes, 1yr/10k or 2yrs/20k. In fact the variable servicing option is up to 2yrs or 18,600 miles (it's 30,000km) for the first service only, after that it's every year or 18,600 miles, so no use whatsoever for your mileage. Stick to fixed 1yr/10k servicing.

 

Considering your 7k miles/yr I cannot urge you strongly enough to consider the petrol. Considering the purchase price the diesel makes no sense financially and the petrol has plenty of low down grunt these days (peak torque from 1500rpm). If you watch the news these days you might also believe the petrol to be the environmentally friendly and lung friendly option (although this advice will be changed again in around 18 months).

Thanks. The car I am looking at is a 2.0 diesel SE. Even in sport mode it's slower than my Jag. I guess I'd need to test a 1.4 Petrol but I'm put off by the small engine size. We have lots of people who potter around at 40mph and I like to get past them without consulting my diary first. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Well, the 1.4 might sound small, but it's got a lot of torque for a petrol (more than the diesel car I owned previously) and is plenty fast enough for overtaking, there's definitely no diary checking! I drove both when I was deciding and for my money the performance of the 1.4TSi and 2.0TDi are very similar, but the petrol's a bit more refined.

 

I suspect that engine technology, particularly petrol engine technology, has moved a long way since you drove one. Have you tried any downsized turbo-charged petrol's of late?

Thanks. The car I am looking at is a 2.0 diesel SE. Even in sport mode it's slower than my Jag. I guess I'd need to test a 1.4 Petrol but I'm put off by the small engine size. We have lots of people who potter around at 40mph and I like to get past them without consulting my diary first. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Don't let the size worry you. The 1.4 makes as much power as the 2.0 in my Pulsar, and as much torque as the 3.0 in my Cressida, and at a much lower rpm. It's not a fast car, but you shouldn't have any trouble slipping past slowpokes.

The 1.4 has a lifetime belt that should only require inspection.

I'm sure every belt is a lifetime belt if you don't change it...

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

But as said above, changing the water pump has been a standard procedure when changing the belt on all my cars so far. It's much cheaper to change it just in case while changing the belt than to have it fail later.

My tuppence worth.

There are some very good threads here regarding Cambelts or chains I suggest you do a search. I sat with the dealer service manager and asked the question, belt or chain? He did a vehicle breakdown check on a recent Octy 3 1.4 TSI PETROL (Which mine will be when it arrives next year) and was advised (Assured) it was a cam chain, hopefully he got it right!

 

I have had diesels for many years but like you am now retired, my diesel Passat hit DPF problems with my now lower mileage, so bye bye Passat hello 1.8 Petrol Avensis, much cheaper to run. The time came to change and I thought Skoda Octavia but thought a 1.4 in a car that size would be much worse than  the 1.8 in the Avensis which felt gutless when overtaking from anything over 50mph unless you floored it in a lower gear. Anyway, I tried the 1.4 TSI with both Manual and DSG box. I was very pleasantly surprised, it is a real peach of an engine and coupled to the 7 speed DSG effortlessly quick enough. I had a good drive around town then tried the motorway, settled down to 50mph and gently pushed to loud pedal, up she went without any drop until I hit 90 at which point the salesman kindly pointed out the 70mph speed limit! Okay its not a vRS but still pretty quick.

 

I was to say very impressed with the car, engine and the DSG. TRY it before making a decision, from what I have read diesels only pay off if your a higher mileage driver (as I was), they cost more to service are slower to warm up and use more fuel doing so, and may have  DPF and associated problems (My Passat was £2k for a new DPF). The Petrol 1.4 is a peach as already said and does not sound like a Massey Ferguson until its warmed up (Apologies to  Massey Ferguson and Skoda Diesels).

 

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I sat with the dealer service manager and asked the question, belt or chain? He did a vehicle breakdown check on a recent Octy 3 1.4 TSI PETROL (Which mine will be when it arrives next year) and was advised (Assured) it was a cam chain, hopefully he got it right!

 

There are also many threads that go something like, 'great car, shame about the dealer experience / service'. Unless the engine spec has changed in the latest model year update the 1.4TSi in the Octy3 is definitely not a chain cam.

 

There are some very good threads here regarding Cambelts or chains I suggest you do a search. I sat with the dealer service manager and asked the question, belt or chain? He did a vehicle breakdown check on a recent Octy 3 1.4 TSI PETROL (Which mine will be when it arrives next year) and was advised (Assured) it was a cam chain, hopefully he got it right!

 

I'm 99% sure the 1.4 Mk3 petrol is a cambelt. The Mk2 petrol engines were chain driven but the scare stories on the Mk2 forum (and other VW forums) about how the chain of that generation of the engine can slip and blow the engine without warning pretty much put me off buying a Mk2 altogether. I was much happier to see VW had given up and it and gone with a cambelt for the Mk3 engine. VW aren't alone, BMW/Mini apparently also have problems with their chains breaking engines too but they made the additional mistake of putting the chain on the back of the engine, making it a much harder job to change. 

 

 

As for performance of the 1.4, it's easily a match for the 2.2lt diesel Mondeo (mk3) it replaced. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise It's certainly not a 1.4lt engine from 10 years ago...

 

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

 

People often say the X is a Jag badged Mondeo. Only 18% of the car is Mondeo (The engine, basic chassis and heated front windscreen).

 

I'll only do around 7k miles per year. This is a retirement car.

18% - is that by total mass because it's not by total value.   Body panels and interior are different..... It's a Mondeo in a different frock.

 

Jag X types are retirement cars or maybe that should be a Honda Civic or Jazz!

 

In all seriousness though (apart from the Mondeo jibe - that's serious), a 1.4 would be a good choice for you.  The weight of the car has dropped dramatically which is why it's almost on par with larger capacity diesel units and better than most peoples conceptions about what a 1.4 is like.

Thanks. The car I am looking at is a 2.0 diesel SE. Even in sport mode it's slower than my Jag.

 

I just looked back through this thread to remind myself why you're thinking of swapping the jag. I didn't see a reason, did you give one? (It sounds like you are fond of it).

 

I did notice that you said the 2.0D Octy felt slow. Would you say it was much slower, as on paper it looks like it should be quicker (almost the same peak torque, but flatter curve resulting in higher power output and 220kg less weight). Are you sure they didn't give you the 1.6?

I just looked back through this thread to remind myself why you're thinking of swapping the jag. I didn't see a reason, did you give one? (It sounds like you are fond of it).

 

I did notice that you said the 2.0D Octy felt slow. Would you say it was much slower, as on paper it looks like it should be quicker (almost the same peak torque, but flatter curve resulting in higher power output and 220kg less weight). Are you sure they didn't give you the 1.6?

My Jag has covered 94,000 miles and is getting on for nine years old. I'm thinking of changing it simply because it could be getting near the time where it starts to cost money. It's a 2.0 with all the toys. I could trade up to a 2.2 but it would still be five years old and I don't like the XF Sportbrake. Yes, I am fond of it. It's real fun to drive.

 

The car I drove was certainly advertised as a 2.0. In normal mode it took some time to get up to 70 (I started talking to it to try to encourage it). As it's a dual carriageway I know well I know exactly where the Jag hits 70. Coming back in sport mode it did outperform the Jag.

 

I'm still dithering because the car in question is one year old (exactly one year) SE with 14,000 miles on the clock and is priced at £15,000.00 - oh, and the wife likes it.

I'm still dithering because the car in question is one year old (exactly one year) SE with 14,000 miles on the clock and is priced at £15,000.00 - oh, and the wife likes it.

 

  I bought mine exactly 1yr old with 14k miles on the clock! I'll wager good money that the one you're looking at is an ex-hire car (mine was owned by Europcar).

 

I paid £14,450 for a 1.4TSi in Elegance trim (there were a few things missing from the SE that I couldn't live without - most notably cruise control), and I got a perfectly fair price for my trade in (a couple of hundred more than expected actually). The SE does give the advantage of the more sensible 16" wheels, though.

 

Just to finish my petrol evangelising, your jag probably doesn't have a DPF, and you might want to think hard about the type of driving that you do and whether that's compatible with a DPF, especially if you think you'll keep it for a long time. You also need to think carefully about buying a car that the wife likes, I did that and my mileage appears to have increased even though my driving is the same as it was. I think the wife's car is down to about 2k miles a year now!

 

Ultimately though, I think that price looks OK (although May was the last time I checked prices) it just depends on of whether it's the car that YOU want or not. Best of luck!

Why would it be quicker in Sport mode ??

I had a bad experience with cruise control in a Ford Galaxy many years ago so the fact that this one doesn't have it is not a concern to me.

Yes, I like the 16" wheels.

No my Jag doesn't have the dreaded DPF although when I use it the shortest trip it does is around 25 miles. The wife's car gets used for the local stuff.

Sport mode changes a number of aspects in the car (I'm told). One being the timing. Certainly it went drowsy again when I turned it off.

My wife also likes the Jag down the country roads.

 

 

People often say the X is a Jag badged Mondeo. Only 18% of the car is Mondeo (The engine, basic chassis and heated front windscreen).

 

And the other 82% is even worse!

Again, there are plenty of threads that you can search on this topic, but to the best of my knowledge the "engine" setting on the driving mode doesn't actually affect the engine. The throttle response is changed, but if you bury the pedal in the carpet there should be no difference between any of the modes. If you have the DSG it affects the gear selection, but I guess you're looking at a manual?

 

If the dealer told you that it changes the timing I'd ask for the documentation that shows it (then post it on here) or ask to talk to his boss next time!

There are also many threads that go something like, 'great car, shame about the dealer experience / service'. Unless the engine spec has changed in the latest model year update the 1.4TSi in the Octy3 is definitely not a chain cam.

 

Well, does it or doesn't it? That is the question.

 

According to SUK this afternoon it could be either .The only way to check is with the specific VIN of the car. Again according to SUK it all depends on which engines are available at time of fitting, which I must admit I find odd. Why make two different spec engines for the same car?

 

I asked if it is possible to spec which version is fitted to my car when it's built, but as said it's not possible as it's down to what is available. One of the plus points on buying this car was because I was advised it was fitted with a chain. A belt then adds about £100 more to running costs every year. So what you save in road tax you will spend on belts!

 

 

 

There are some very good threads here regarding Cambelts or chains I suggest you do a search. I sat with the dealer service manager and asked the question, belt or chain? He did a vehicle breakdown check on a recent Octy 3 1.4 TSI PETROL (Which mine will be when it arrives next year) and was advised (Assured) it was a cam chain, hopefully he got it right!

 

I'm 99% sure the 1.4 Mk3 petrol is a cambelt. The Mk2 petrol engines were chain driven but the scare stories on the Mk2 forum (and other VW forums) about how the chain of that generation of the engine can slip and blow the engine without warning pretty much put me off buying a Mk2 altogether. I was much happier to see VW had given up and it and gone with a cambelt for the Mk3 engine. VW aren't alone, BMW/Mini apparently also have problems with their chains breaking engines too but they made the additional mistake of putting the chain on the back of the engine, making it a much harder job to change. 

 

 

As for performance of the 1.4, it's easily a match for the 2.2lt diesel Mondeo (mk3) it replaced. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise It's certainly not a 1.4lt engine from 10 years ago...

 

 

 

I didn't say this at all!

 

"I'm 99% sure the 1.4 Mk3 petrol is a cambelt. The Mk2 petrol engines were chain driven but the scare stories on the Mk2 forum (and other VW forums) about how the chain of that generation of the engine can slip and blow the engine without warning pretty much put me off buying a Mk2 altogether. I was much happier to see VW had given up and it and gone with a cambelt for the Mk3 engine. VW aren't alone, BMW/Mini apparently also have problems with their chains breaking engines too but they made the additional mistake of putting the chain on the back of the engine, making it a much harder job to change. 

 

 

As for performance of the 1.4, it's easily a match for the 2.2lt diesel Mondeo (mk3) it replaced. I wouldn't have bought it otherwise It's certainly not a 1.4lt engine from 10 years ago..."

 

Wrongly quoting someone can lead to all sorts of problems

Thanks. The car I am looking at is a 2.0 diesel SE. Even in sport mode it's slower than my Jag. I guess I'd need to test a 1.4 Petrol but I'm put off by the small engine size. We have lots of people who potter around at 40mph and I like to get past them without consulting my diary first. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

As people have said - don't be put off by the 1.4TSi. Ednmra on here has got one and compares if favourably to their old 1.8T petrol. I'm picking up mine tomorrow (DSG version) and I am looking forward to ditching the 1.9tdi A6 sport I have now (not literally in a ditch of course).

As it happens I spent today in a 2.0tdi DSG Golf Mk7 and I'm still in the right mind that going back to petrol is my best option (although my journeys are short).

Definitely go for a test drive in both types - the petrol may surprise you particularly with DSG.

Edited 19 December, 201411 yr by philwoodphoto