All,

 

Having had my licence since July 2002 and, to date, undented I got bagged in unfortunate circumstances while coming across Chew Valley lake just south of Bristol on the B3114 between Chew Stoke and West Harptree. Speed limit 50 and I was flagged at 58: the threshold for being fined is 57. Bit of bad luck really because the sun was positioned at such an angle (early afternoon at around 2pm) that I didn't see the cop with the radar gun until the very last second. I hadn't noticed any signs advising of the 50 limit either for the same reason.

 

Anyway my boss informed me that the ticket has come through. Seeing as I reply on my licence for work (although I have never had any points on it so wouldn't be DQ) what would be the likely outcome?

 

SP50 + 3pts + FP or one of these speed awareness courses (SAC)?

 

Bearing in mind that I have never had an SAC or speeding offence against me before. I suppose I might be able to plead it but who knows.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Dave

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by DaveHarries

Id take the speed awareness course if i was you

Likely outcome is 3 points and a £60 fine. I guess you'll have to wait to see if they offer you a speed course as an alternative. First stage in the process will be confirming back to them who was actually driving the vehicle.

Thanks guys. If I can get a course I will take it.

 

I see from North Yorkshire Police.....

 

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/11056

 

..... that you can get an SAC if you were doing between 57mph and 64mph in a 50mph zone and I fall into that bracket as I was doing 58. The question is whether my local force (Avon and Somerset Police) operate to similar guidelines.

 

The other key here is that I was driving a vehicle that was not mine (it was a Hyundai ix35 from my employer's fleet that I was caught in. I admit I was driving it and my employer has that on record anyway. See what happens I guess.

 

Dave

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by DaveHarries

No excuse for speeding, pal :-)

Should get offered speed awareness course - but no guarantee.

Next time get a camera detector! ;-)

There are no £60 speeding fines anymore are there?  £100 minimum.

 

Unless some Court in England wants to hand out £5 fines like to the lady in the Grimsby Area.

 

http://gov.uk/speeding-penalties

 

SP50 is exceeding the Speed Limit on a Motorway.

SP30 is exceeding the Speed Limit on a Public Road.     (As i read it.)

 

?

Any links to where the threshold for being find is 57 mph in a 50 mph speed limit in England.

Did a 50 MPG speed area not have repeater signs along its length?

 

..................

I should take a Speed Awareness Course, only there are none in Scotland.

Maybe i should just retake a driving test.

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

There are no £60 speeding fines anymore are there? £100 minimum.

Unless some Court in England wants to hand out £5 fines like to the lady in the Grimsby Area.

http://gov.uk/speeding-penalties

SP50 is exceeding the Speed Limit on a Motorway.

SP30 is exceeding the Speed Limit on a Public Road. (As i read it.)

?

Any links to where the threshold for being find is 57 mph in a 50 mph speed limit in England.

Did a 50 MPG speed area not have repeater signs along its length?

..................

I should take a Speed Awareness Course, only there are none in Scotland.

Maybe i should just retake a driving test.

Are there roads with mpg requirements now?

Aha.

Theres a chart on here...

http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=10262&p=0

Theres a few knockin about the internet for different policing areas.

https://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/about-us/freedom-of-information/previous-foi-requests/speed-enforcement/speed-awareness-course/

If it is your first offence, you will definitely be offered a Speed Awareness Course as, at 58 mph, you are what is known as a "marginal" speeder and should be open minded enough to to receptive to being "educated".  Reckon on it costing you about £100 (so would the fine, and you would get three points on your licence)  and be prepared to get to the course venue ahead of time and to spend the whole morning or afternoon there.

Don't look on the Speed Awareness Course as a punishment.   Instead, go there with an open mind,   Llisten and interact with the others in your group.   As someone who is a "marginal" speeder, I can almost guarantee you will leave the course with a slightly different point of view!   Be prepared, too, for some shocking graphic images and heartbreaking stories.  I won't say I never speed nowadays since I did the course a year ago, because I still consider 70 mph on motorways in clear conditions too damn slow, but I never speed at all in towns, villages or rural areas where 40 or 50's have been applied.   Aside from motorways where the limit was applied in response to fuel shortages, the speed limits elsewhere are all there for a reason. 

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by bealine

Any links to where the threshold for being find is 57 mph in a 50 mph speed limit in England.

Yes there is. It is on this likk: click "Speed Enforcement".

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_fixed_penalty_notices/

 

Dave

One United Kingdom

& yet very different Traffic Laws or implementation & penalties from England & Wales, or Scotland & Northern Ireland.

I'd go with the advice posted above from Avon & Somerset as that's who are prosecuting.

Likely outcome is 3 points and a £60 fine. I guess you'll have to wait to see if they offer you a speed course as an alternative. First stage in the process will be confirming back to them who was actually driving the vehicle.

Very out of date, Furbs

Fixed penalty has been £100 for some time now

Very out of date, Furbs

Fixed penalty has been £100 for some time now

Haha that just shows how long it's been since I was last busted by the cops lol!

Last points I had were in 2009 and it was £60 then I think :-)

Yes there is. It is on this likk: click "Speed Enforcement".

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_fixed_penalty_notices/

 

Dave

 

But they are only guidelines, forces are free to ignore them if they desire since they are not law as such.

 

The Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has issued speed enforcement policy guidance, which suggests that enforcement will normally occur when a driver exceeds the speed limit by a particular margin. This is normally 10 per cent over the speed limit plus 2 mph. It also sets guidelines for when it would not be appropriate to issue a fixed penalty notice but to issue a summons instead (see below). Note that these are guidelines and that a police officer has discretion to act outside of them providing he acts fairly, consistently and proportionately.

If it is your first offence, you will definitely be offered a Speed Awareness Course as, at 58 mph, you are what is known as a "marginal" speeder and should be open minded enough to to receptive to being "educated".  Reckon on it costing you about £100 (so would the fine, and you would get three points on your licence)  and be prepared to get to the course venue ahead of time and to spend the whole morning or afternoon there.

Don't look on the Speed Awareness Course as a punishment.   Instead, go there with an open mind,   Llisten and interact with the others in your group.   As someone who is a "marginal" speeder, I can almost guarantee you will leave the course with a slightly different point of view!   Be prepared, too, for some shocking graphic images and heartbreaking stories.  I won't say I never speed nowadays since I did the course a year ago, because I still consider 70 mph on motorways in clear conditions too damn slow, but I never speed at all in towns, villages or rural areas where 40 or 50's have been applied.   Aside from motorways where the limit was applied in response to fuel shortages, the speed limits elsewhere are all there for a reason. 

 

It's actually £80 in Avon & Somerset.

 

No graphic images in the TTC course (can't speak for other providers) but a lot of useful information - not all of which is speed related.  Think of it as a half day refresher course.  Most people leave with positive thoughts.

 

Yes I am biased because I am involved in delivering the courses........

[cynical hat ]The courses are not only there as a sop to road safety, but as a way of diverting speeding ticket funds from HMG to local SCP. Why else have the limits gone up to match speeds[/cynical hat].With this in mind, I'd suggest he'll be offered the course as local SCP need all the cash they can get to keep the empire from doing an Atlantis.

If it is your first offence, you will definitely be offered a Speed Awareness Course as, at 58 mph, 

Wouldn't be too sure of that, I went through a camera at 60 on  a motorway, because I thought this section was a 60 limit and it was a 50. I got an SP50 with no option of a speed awareness course. This was my first offence.

Edited 2 January, 201511 yr by moley

Wouldn't be too sure of that, I went through a camera at 60 on  a motorway, because I thought this section was a 60 limit and it was a 50. I got an SP50 with no option of a speed awareness course. This was my first offence.

You're right.   I just checked the Speed Awareness website and it states that some police forces don't offer the Speed Awareness Course alternative at all, while others operate under different criteria.   Interestingly, it states drivers exceeeding 20 mph limits will not be offered the course.   (I'd better watch out on Ascot High Street in the wee, small silent hours! )

http://www.nopenaltypoints.co.uk/speedawarenesscourse.html

Edited 2 January, 201511 yr by bealine

After recently being caught speeding in North Yorkshire (57mph in a 50mph stretch of average speed cameras - don't ask!) I was offered a course hosted by these guys...

 

http://www.ttc-uk.com/SpeedAwarenessCourses

As you know, you have broken the 7th commandment "Thou shalt not speed"

The driver went against the lords order and continued to exceed the limit that was set before him, he did not realize that the omnipresent lord was watching until it was too late allowing himself to get caught. He was summoned by the lord via fixed penalty notice to attend a 4 hour course in the hope that he would learn of his mistakes and thus drive at a more sensible speed from that point on.

I go to mine on Tuesday.

Interestingly, it states drivers exceeeding 20 mph limits will not be offered the course.

 

It depends where you are caught.  Avon & Somerset are trialling a different speed awareness course specifically for those caught in 20mph limits.  If it is successful it could be rolled out on a wider basis.

Quick update. I had the notice through confirming I was caught at 58 in a 50: sent it back today after filling out the required details (name, address, licence number, etc.) and ticking the box confirming that I was the driver of the vehicle and would like to attend a speed awareness course if offered the choice. I meet the various criteria for an SAC set out in the letter received, including not having previously dealt with a similar offence through an S.A.C in the past 3 years (this is the first time I have ever been caught and I have been driving 14 years).

 

I think I may change my job at some point this year: half the problem is picking up bad habits from my colleagues, many of who exceed the limit on a regular basis and sometimes by rather more than 10%.

 

Dave

Some insurance companies require you declare these now. I've just had a multicar policy quote and was told that because SWMBO has one and is a named driver on my policy I didn't get the reduction in the premium that I would have otherwise got. Whether they treat it the same as a FPN I don't know, but it may pay you to shop around when your renewal is due to find those that don't require you to declare it.

Some insurance companies require you declare these now. I've just had a multicar policy quote and was told that because SWMBO has one and is a named driver on my policy I didn't get the reduction in the premium that I would have otherwise got. Whether they treat it the same as a FPN I don't know, but it may pay you to shop around when your renewal is due to find those that don't require you to declare it.

The people running the course told me it didn't need to be declared as it was a spent offence same as the 3 points disappearing off your licence after However many years