Winter wheels & tyres fitted, breakdown of costs etc

[Citigouk]

Just an update on the first fuel tank performance since winter tyres fitted:

 

38.11 litres covering 434.7miles...................... so thanks a tank average of 51.9MPG

 

And a reminder its the ASG citigo, spending most of its time on urban and country roads with the heated seats and heater on full!

 

Cant see winter tyres are harming the fuel economy, just providing the additional safety needed

[stooz]

im still interested how WORSE they are above 7? im fairly sure there will plenty of times people will leave them on too long or a variation in temp over a day will have them running over 7c.

 

without this data, the suggestion made here is that they could be kept on all year round?

Edited 26 January, 2015 by stooz

[AnotherGareth]

im still interested how WORSE they are above 7?

 

Why? What difference does it make? People generally drive to the grip levels they feel, (to do anything else would be foolish after all). You don't seem to be asking how much worse one summer tyre will be compared to another at, say, 15C, in the the dry, in the rain, in standing water, so what is bothering you about non-summer tyres?

 

im fairly sure there will plenty of times people will leave them on too long or a variation in temp over a day will have them running over 7c.

 

What is too long? I've seen suggestions that it's time to take winters off when it's warm enough to have a beer outside after swapping the wheels!

 

How do you choose tyres? For me it's mostly guess-work but I try to think about the worst conditions I'm likely to meet. At this time of year, I'm finding enough days when the ground is frosty and fairly slippery very early in the morning, so I'd like a tyre that can easily cope with that. I can adjust the way I drive when conditions are more benign.

 

without this data, the suggestion made here is that they could be kept on all year round?

 

Some people do keep winter tyres on all year around. I was talking to the owner of a 911 yesterday who said he has a second set of alloys with winter tyres for his car, but his wife's car has winter tyres all the time because she doesn't notice any difference during the summer, but certainly benefits when conditions are bad. She doesn't press hard on the tyres, and I'm sure that's the case for most drivers.

[stooz]

Why? well I asked those questions. Lets re-word it.

if winter tyres are better at braking distances below 7c - what are the stopping distances above 7C?

By your 911 drivers evidence - the same.

So why not keep winter tyres on all year round? there appears to be only an upside?

 

That doesnt sound right. why do we bother having summer tyres if they only have a downside below 7c?

 

Lets suggest for an example that braking distances are INCREASED above 7c compared to a summer rated tyre ;

there will be people that leave changing them for a few days, even months back from winter to their summer set.

Therefore their braking distances will be impaired , will they not? They risk crashes don't they?

 

Surely if we are excited by the sense of changing to winter tyres and spending hundreds of ££ to own a set, surely we need to know why they are better in the winter, but without knowing WHY we should change back to the original summer set - why do we own a summer set?

 

I agree with your statement - drive within the feel of grip, no matter on the tyre - if that was the case - then the whole sense of buying a second set of tyres is mute. just keep driving on one set.

 

there is a gif above showing stopping distances below 7c.  I want to know the reverse effect in warmer temps.

[AnotherGareth]

So why not keep winter tyres on all year round? there appears to be only an upside?

 

Apparently, from a safety point of view, if you are the kind of driver who generally doesn't want to drive especially quickly, doesn't try to maximise cornering speed, and always leaves a decent distance to the vehicle ahead, and doesn't want to bother with the downsides of having two sets of wheels and/or tyres, then having tyres that are optimised for the worst weather conditions is best.

 

why do we bother having summer tyres if they only have a downside below 7c?

 

We've somewhat sleep-walked into the situation where the default tyres fitted to cars are optimised for summer weather, probably because in general we're more bothered by fashion than performance. Many (but not all) summer tyres are designed to have a long life and/or designed to have a lower than average rolling resistance, in both cases making them more economical than alternatives. Some people choose specific summer tyres for performance reasons but that's probably a small minority. Many just buy the cheapest on the day they arrive at the tyre fitters.

 

Lets suggest for an example that braking distances are INCREASED above 7c compared to a summer rated tyre ;

there will be people that leave changing them for a few days, even months back from winter to their summer set.

Therefore their braking distances will be impaired , will they not? They risk crashes don't they?

 

Just as they risk crashes if they choose summer tyres that aren't as good as the best in that category.

 

I agree with your statement - drive within the feel of grip, no matter on the tyre - if that was the case - then the whole sense of buying a second set of tyres is mute. just keep driving on one set.

 

Agreed, providing that one set covers all conditions that one is likely to meet.

 

For us, on two of our cars, we've decided that fitting all-season tyres will mean we can get around with greater safety in cold winter conditions as well as when the weather is more benign. That's not to say that using summer tyres on roads covered with a hard frost or when it is cold and wet isn't a heck of a lot of fun, because it is, but when we have a reason for actually wanting to get somewhere rather than just playing, more appropriate tyres serve us better.

 

The particular reason we chose to use all-season instead of summer tyres throughout year is that we found that, in some wintery conditions it was practically impossible to complete some journeys.

 

Regarding braking distances; I don't know how, for example, 205/55VR16 summer tyres from Continental, Falken, Goodyear, Kumho or Vredestein compare at 12C on dry roads in a straight line at 70 mph on my car. I read reviews and try to get a feel for the strengths of each tyre and weigh them up against the cost, but I don't actually know. I don't know how they would compare if it was raining, or if there was standing water, or if the ambient was higher or lower, or how they would compare if following a curve instead of a straight line.

 

I know from comparative tyre tests that some tyres seem to do one thing really well, sometimes at the expense of other characteristics, and in general the range of behaviours of premium tyres will be better than that of mid-range tyres and those, in turn, will be better than that of budget tyres.

 

So I ask, if a particular all-season or winter tyre has a longer braking distance in the summer than a premium summer tyre but a shorter braking distance than, say, a mid-range or budget summer tyre, does that make choosing an all-season or winter tyre to use throughout the year a poor choice? If it does, what does that say about people who choose mid-range or budget tyres?

Edited 29 January, 2015 by AnotherGareth

[stooz]

Interesting points. As you say the abov gif showing braking distances isnt really a good system - there are too many variants. therefore, as I was hopefully trying to put across - just going out and buying "winter" tyres and a set of wheels isnt a simple decision and if you take away the hype from the graphic, basically its a marketing ploy to get us to buy tyres.

sure - you only use one set at a time - but is still could be pointless compared to just buying a decent set in the first place that suits your needs!

[g6zru]

Apparently, from a safety point of view, if you are the kind of driver who generally doesn't want to drive especially quickly, doesn't try to maximise cornering speed, and always leaves a decent distance to the vehicle ahead, and doesn't want to bother with the downsides of having two sets of wheels and/or tyres, then having tyres that are optimised for the worst weather conditions is best.

 

 

We've somewhat sleep-walked into the situation where the default tyres fitted to cars are optimised for summer weather, probably because in general we're more bothered by fashion than performance. Many (but not all) summer tyres are designed to have a long life and/or designed to have a lower than average rolling resistance, in both cases making them more economical than alternatives. Some people choose specific summer tyres for performance reasons but that's probably a small minority. Many just buy the cheapest on the day they arrive at the tyre fitters.

 

 

Just as they risk crashes if they choose summer tyres that aren't as good as the best in that category.

 

 

Agreed, providing that one set covers all conditions that one is likely to meet.

 

For us, on two of our cars, we've decided that fitting all-season tyres will mean we can get around with greater safety in cold winter conditions as well as when the weather is more benign. That's not to say that using summer tyres on roads covered with a hard frost or when it is cold and wet isn't a heck of a lot of fun, because it is, but when we have a reason for actually wanting to get somewhere rather than just playing, more appropriate tyres serve us better.

 

The particular reason we chose to use all-season instead of summer tyres throughout year is that we found that, in some wintery conditions it was practically impossible to complete some journeys.

 

Regarding braking distances; I don't know how, for example, 205/55VR16 summer tyres from Continental, Falken, Goodyear, Kumho or Vredestein compare at 12C on dry roads in a straight line at 70 mph on my car. I read reviews and try to get a feel for the strengths of each tyre and weigh them up against the cost, but I don't actually know. I don't know how they would compare if it was raining, or if there was standing water, or if the ambient was higher or lower, or how they would compare if following a curve instead of a straight line.

 

I know from comparative tyre tests that some tyres seem to do one thing really well, sometimes at the expense of other characteristics, and in general the range of behaviours of premium tyres will be better than that of mid-range tyres and those, in turn, will be better than that of budget tyres.

 

So I ask, if a particular all-season or winter tyre has a longer braking distance in the summer than a premium summer tyre but a shorter braking distance than, say, a mid-range or budget summer tyre, does that make choosing an all-season or winter tyre to use throughout the year a poor choice? If it does, what does that say about people who choose mid-range or budget tyres?

My head hurts.  But I do agree, I think. :think:

 

Fred

[Bigredbus4468]

Christ looking at the news I bet everybody north of Bristol wished they had them fitted right now

[silver1011]

When my winters tyres get too low to be properly effective in the winter then I'll simply leave them on and run them until they are down close to the legal limit, probably all through the summer.

[AnotherGareth]

We've somewhat sleep-walked into the situation where the default tyres fitted to cars are optimised for summer weather, probably because in general we're more bothered by fashion than performance. Many (but not all) summer tyres are designed to have a long life and/or designed to have a lower than average rolling resistance, in both cases making them more economical than alternatives.

 

I know it's bad form to reply to yourself but something was bothering me and I think I worked out what it is.

 

Years ago it used to be that the majority of cars could have snow chains fitted but I think that's less the case these days, partly because of the fashion for having larger wheels and lower profile tyres, (and manufacturers play to this in order to increase sales), but also because a larger proportion of performance variants are sold in each model range.

 

I would suggest that if the manufacturer says snow chains shouldn't be fitted to the oe wheels & tyres, that's a fairly good indication that the default fitment is optimised for warmer conditions.

Edited 1 February, 2015 by AnotherGareth

[Camlep]

I still find it amazing that there's a debate going on here about winter tyres benefit and point.

If what you're saying, Stooz, is that your winter where you live is often above 7 degrees, and that you don't feel winter tyres are necessary, then no-body is forcing you to buy them. So don't.

But for the most of us, it is not above 7 degrees. And for myself, I don't think we have had a day of >7 since before Christmas. So they are beneficial, unequivocally.

You've made it perfectly clear that you are anti-winter tyre, but OP made this thread to allow people to come here to get a breakdown of costs and possibly to discuss fitting of winter tyres to their car. Not to go anti-winter tyre because it does not suit one individual. We get that you don't feel it necessary; I reiterate - this is not a general opinion.

[Citigouk]

 OP made this thread to allow people to come here to get a breakdown of costs and possibly to discuss fitting of winter tyres to their car. Not to go anti-winter tyre because it does not suit one individual. 

Camlep,

 

Absolutely 100% correct. 

 

I can only say since fitting the winter tyre set-up its been fantastic and a reassurance to my family and the citigo drive. With the temperatures since (realistically) November being less than 7C we were late to make the decision but since fitting the timing has been crucial as the roads have been snow/ice/mud/waterlogged etc and there is a definite improvement in stability and traction in those conditions.

 

On the forum we are all aware people have differing pocket sizes and I thought as nothing had been posted previously in any depth of what a citigo owner needs todo or buy then this post would be welcoming. 

[Citigo2032]

I have aluminium rims on the winter tyres, and steel rims on the summer tyres. Here in Norway, as probably many other winterly places, they use salt to melt snow and ice. Salt kills the steel rims pretty fast (Salt keeps humidity for quite some time), so I do not recommend steel in the winter.

 

Vidar

[stooz]

I still find it amazing that there's a debate going on here about winter tyres benefit and point.

If what you're saying, Stooz, is that your winter where you live is often above 7 degrees, and that you don't feel winter tyres are necessary, then no-body is forcing you to buy them. So don't.

But for the most of us, it is not above 7 degrees. And for myself, I don't think we have had a day of >7 since before Christmas. So they are beneficial, unequivocally.

You've made it perfectly clear that you are anti-winter tyre, but OP made this thread to allow people to come here to get a breakdown of costs and possibly to discuss fitting of winter tyres to their car. Not to go anti-winter tyre because it does not suit one individual. We get that you don't feel it necessary; I reiterate - this is not a general opinion.

 

It IS below 7c, I have seen the stats that braking distance is better, My most recent question is what is the post effect ABOVE 7c, I am interested to know the stats! Im just trying to gather if they are the same/better/worse above 7.

 

I don't understand why I should stop asking questions because you don't agree or like what I asked? Unless I have missed something? is this your forum and im not sticking to some rules here?

 

But a shan't drag it out anymore. change to winter tyres if you are struggling for grip.

[McFisher]

Had winter tyres on my last car and the difference in wet weather was good, On snow it was amazing with other car owners looking at me as though I had studded tyres

Ok so this year we have all been lucky but I suspect we will be like Germany soon where they will be compulsory during the colder months.

I do however come from Aberdeen but with any possibility of frost, ice or snow I have "winters" on from late October to late April.

The only downside is the rubber wears away quickly above 7C

4 good 14" steel rims are now fairly readily available on ebay etc for under £100 and a new set of Uniroyal MS Plus 77 winter tyres from mytyres.com at under £170 should allowing for fiting come all in at under £300

[DaveWR]

This is my first post...and, luckily, it's about something that I am passionate about...WINTER TYRES!  I have lived in Germany on and off for 22 years - I came back 3 years ago after 13 in Bavaria.  For the last 5 years, it has been a legal requirement in Germany to use winter tyres between 1 November until 31 March each year [so, if you hire a car in Germany during this period, don't get stung for paying extra to have winter tyres!]  Before becoming a legal requirement, the insurance companies were allowed to declare your car insurance null and void if you had an accident that would have been avoidable if you had used winter tyres, so that was a great incentive to use them! 

 

Yes, there is a lot more snow in Germany than in the UK but, as other posters have correctly highlighted, it's not just in snow that winter tyres impress.  Winter tyres give you a performance advantage over summer tyres below 7 deg C.  Ice is what seems to catch most people out in the UK, because you can't see it.  Until you have experienced the performance of winter tyres, you will not believe it...they force you to believe in magic!  My wife's car is the Citygo [we have not had it long enough to experience a winter yet]; my own car is a BMW and I use winter tyres on this car every winter.   For any rear-wheel-drive car, winter tyres for the winter months is an absolute no-brainer.  I drive around in ice and snow without difficulty, whilst other rear-wheel-drive - and front-wheel-drive cars - without them flounder.   

 

As has been pointed out, other than the cost of 4 extra wheels, the steady-state cost impact of using summer and winter tyres is effectively zero.    So, given the indisputable enhancement to road safety, In my view, winter tyres should become a legal requirement in the UK, because, being Brits,  that's the only way all of us will actually use them them!

 

Come on winter!

 

 

[domhnall]

Just took my winters off this week

[bradfordfabia]

Have used winter tyres now for 4 years on my Fabia and they are great. Looking to sell the tyres and steel wheels and get a new lot for the citigo.

[Mick 50]

Check out the classified adds for my winter tyres . Sorry to hijack the tread .if not allowed please remove Mods.

[domhnall]

That's the downside of changing car, I'm going back from a yeti to an octavia so the tyres have to go

Sent from my XT1039 using Tapatalk

[Mick 50]

It's true downside of changing cars ,but the upside is you getting a new car [emoji4]

[McFisher]

I have had my Citigo for just over a month but have had winter tyres on all my 3 previous cars over the last 6 years.

Ok so I live in Aberdeenshire but you get wet, frosty and icy road surfaces throughout the UK at certain times of the year.

Winter tyres don't need to be compulsory, but common sense is a good second and if you can get a set of steel wheels then take the opportunity

- as others have said you won't believe the difference until you drive with them.

Edited 31 May, 2015 by McFisher

[McFisher]

Anyone looking for 4 Citigo steel wheels to put winter tyres on, in the Manchester area - look on Gumtree - £50.00

Too far from Aberdeen and the couriers are insisting on boxes if they take them.

Edited 31 May, 2015 by McFisher

[Mick 50]

Any body interested ?in my winters tyres still got them and need space so now down to £175 ono . Loads of tread on them excellent condition with free Aries trims .

[M12MKD]

^^^^ Bargain btw!!!

 

I don't get people who say it's a complete waste of money in my 25 years of driving blah blah blah.........

 

.......yes agreed we do not get the extreme weather like some European countries, but having run winters since 2009 I'm more than happy to "waste" my money on a set. Though by waste I do mean save wear on the "summer" set and thereby increasing the life so really the cost is spread over the life of both sets.

 

Yes ok so I have to buy the rims...........shop around and when you've finished sell them on 9 times out of 10 you'll get your money back.