Driving in snow; 4 and 2 wheel drive

[rum4mo]

I have had Alpins on my old Fabia & very good, Now have Alpin A5 on the Golf in 225/45R17 & again good grip & quiet also!

 

And they have seriously long service life, I was not expecting that even if their "winter" qualities drop off at about 4 or 5mm.

 

I think that I had A4s on the 4Motion Passat, probably A5's on the Polo, and have Alpin Pilots(?) on the S4 and will be getting the latest offering A*s for the new Polo.

Edited 16 September, 2015 by rum4mo

[fabdavrav]

TBH a lot has been made of using one set of tyres, when I got my A3's several years ago I was speaking to a chap an Michelin & he left them on all year, just slightly noisy in summer & not a high performance driver.

 

All season tyres are just a better tread pattern than standard/summer tyres, but will suffer from going hard/stiff in the cold weather.

 

However the new Michelin cross climate???................is a winter tyre which is made to last through the summer, so hopefully this should have the same cold resistant (more silica) based rubber compound as a specific winter tyre. should be a good alternative one tyre compromise................

[skomaz]

Summertyres are useless in snow. Thats just how it is. No grip at all.

I would suggest that very much depends on the tread pattern... Goodyear eagle f1 and I agree with you. Vredestein sportrac 3 and I don't agree.

I have run the latter for about 6 years now and never got stuck in snow, even when the car was dragging its belly on the stuff and that, to me, is all due to the tread pattern...

I won't by a non-dierctional v tread pattern tyre again.

[Gromle]

Those cross climates Sounds like a good tyre for your type of climate.

I run with studded tyres, its the only thing that works on wet ice.

[dbg400]

TBH a lot has been made of using one set of tyres, when I got my A3's several years ago I was speaking to a chap an Michelin & he left them on all year, just slightly noisy in summer & not a high performance driver.

 

All season tyres are just a better tread pattern than standard/summer tyres, but will suffer from going hard/stiff in the cold weather.

 

However the new Michelin cross climate???................is a winter tyre which is made to last through the summer, so hopefully this should have the same cold resistant (more silica) based rubber compound as a specific winter tyre. should be a good alternative one tyre compromise................

 

The Michelin CCs are a summer tyre made to work in winter. Nokian's Weatherproof all season (or all weather as they advertise it) is the opposite, given they principally focus on winter tyres. Quite a few of the manufacturers are bringing out new types of all season tyre that should cope better with both extremes of hot & cold.

[rum4mo]

I can't see where the Michelin CC fits in really, if you are a Michelin tyre choser/user, you know a bit about your car and motoring, so why compromise summer or winter use by having a winter tyre that works well in summer, if that was the way things could be, for Northern Europeans, there would be no need for winter or summer tyres and cars would be supplied with this territory specific CC tyre.

 

Which kind of brings me on to thoughts like, "why have tyres become so specific temperature/weather wise?" the majority of car buying Northern Europeans just go out and buy their chosen car - and over the past 20 or so years, it has changed from coming fitted with suitable year round tyres, to coming fitted with summer only use tyres - with no health warning.

 

I do agree that some premium tyres are okay in moderate winters, but too many are just not safe for the average driver in a moderate winter, and that means that some time some one is going to be coming heading straight for one of us completely out of control - and they did not know that that could happen to them!

 

I think that any answer that includes "the local laws should mandate the use of winter tyres in "poor" conditions" - might just be the way that we go.

Edited 17 September, 2015 by rum4mo

[fabdavrav]

I can't see where the Michelin CC fits in really, if you are a Michelin tyre choser/user, you know a bit about your car and motoring, so why compromise summer or winter use by having a winter tyre that works well in summer, if that was the way things could be, for Northern Europeans, there would be no need for winter or summer tyres and cars would be supplied with this territory specific CC tyre.

 

 

 

I think that any answer that includes "the local laws should mandate the use of winter tyres in "poor" conditions" - might just be the way that we go.

 

Storage space, cost & mileage usually determine if someone gets two specific sets or has one jack of all trades set.

 

The Michelin CC is the first to get the 3 peaks mountain/snowflake symbol so is approved for use where it is mandatory by law to have a "winter" tyre, designated by the said symbol.

 

Personally as a "performance driver" in my style of driving, my "premium summers" are much better in the summer for grip etc than those CC would be, so not suitable for me. If you drive more "sedately" then I would say get a set if you require better grip in the winter!

[Huskoda]

The Michelin CC is the first to get the 3 peaks mountain/snowflake symbol so is approved for use where it is mandatory by law to have a "winter" tyre, designated by the said symbol.

All real all-seasons have this certification too.

 

Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, Vredestein Quatracs, Nokian Weatherproofs etc.

[fabdavrav]

All real all-seasons have this certification too.

 

Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, Vredestein Quatracs, Nokian Weatherproofs etc.

 

Michelin state on their web site that "Traction on snow, being the first-ever summer tyre to obtain winter certification (certified 3PMSF for performance on snow)."

 

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-crossclimate

 

Don't shoot the messenger......

[Huskoda]

They're late to the game and are pretending they invented it

[Kenny R]

Michelin are late comers to the all season tyres party and appear to be making out that they invented the concept. They may well be the first summer tyre to obtain winter certification, but certainly all season tyres meet this spec already.

[fabdavrav]

All real all-seasons have this certification too.

 

Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons, Vredestein Quatracs, Nokian Weatherproofs etc.

 

Michelin compared their Cross Climate to the Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons & the video comparison is shown here:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pENWRWbUQYY

 

so better "all round" than what is considered a good "all season" tyre.

[fabdavrav]

Michelin compared their Cross Climate to their Alpin A5 winter tyre here:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpv3dnEjTXE

 

this is pretty good performance!!!

 

 

 

They compared their cross climate to their Energy Saver + tyre for a "summer tyre"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg-j2D6rgX0

 

 

 

 

I have Primacy 3 which are better in summer than both tyres used in the Summer test. Also in proper snow the Alpin A5 will be superior than the Cross Climate, but as I said it looks like a good "one tyre" & certainly up to scratch if not better than a conventional all season tyre!

Edited 17 September, 2015 by fabdavrav

[rum4mo]

Storage space, cost & mileage usually determine if someone gets two specific sets or has one jack of all trades set.

 

The Michelin CC is the first to get the 3 peaks mountain/snowflake symbol so is approved for use where it is mandatory by law to have a "winter" tyre, designated by the said symbol.

 

Personally as a "performance driver" in my style of driving, my "premium summers" are much better in the summer for grip etc than those CC would be, so not suitable for me. If you drive more "sedately" then I would say get a set if you require better grip in the winter!

 

I think that I am of the same thinking as you, in as much as I want a good warm weather tyres for long distance fast "tramping" in the summer and something that will give me the best chance of getting home in the winter when speeds will be lower.

 

It is really just the exact "positioning" of this CC by Michelin that confuses me slightly as it looks like being tilted towards cold weather use instead of being in the middle, also directional tyres will always be a bit noisier than non-directional tyres especially when braking.

 

So, to round up, if the CC range of tyres was non-directional, and positioned to be equidistant from winter and summer tyres in all characteristics, then I would have thought "thank goodness common sense has allowed to reign and Michelin have returned an all weather tyre to their range, and maybe one that could become a standard fit to new cars being sold in Northern Europe".

 

I have been driving for 40+ years and at the start of that time, radial tyres did change the grip available in winter wrt cross ply tyres - which really needed Town and Country for winter use. Then one year I had replaced a Ford Orion 1.6 Ghia Injection with another new one with different tyres on it - it just did not like winter at all and that would be mainly down to the disappearance of small grooves, now called sips, which style/fashion/economy forced off the tyres. Years later I changed wife's car tyres to Michelin Exalto - which were okayish when near the start of their service life but quickly dropped off in terms of winter grip - that forced me into changing her car to having two sets of wheels. My 4Motion Passat survived on Michelin Primacy HP until they too seemed to be useless (at slowing down) in winter if not quite new - that forced me to changing that car to two sets of wheels as well.

 

What I find now is, for anyone that has made the change to having two sets of wheels, it will probably be very difficult to go back to life with one set of wheels - at least until the original tyres are worn out and you have the chance to convert to CC types of tyres.

Edited 17 September, 2015 by rum4mo

[coldplug]

Two example videos from time I have driven Hyundai Accent. Snow tyres were Dunlop Wintersport M3:

 

 

 

 

Now I drive Yeti 4x4, I will fit probably Nokian WR D4 for the winter. I expect much more climbing power through snow

 

Question - How much do I need to worry about overheating Haldex during such snow torture? And how I will know if that happen? Thx

[dbg400]

[snip]

 

What I find now is, for anyone that has made the change to having two sets of wheels, it will probably be very difficult to go back to life with one set of wheels - at least until the original tyres are worn out and you have the chance to convert to CC types of tyres.

 

I'd used just the one set of wheels all year round on every car I've owned until getting the Yeti three years ago. No real issues on the snow in older cars with skinny tyres until getting my Octavia, and the '10/'11 winter decided things for me.

 

The Nokian WR A3s have been brilliant, and I was considering swapping them for the new D4s after this season. Instead of that I've ended up going back to one set of wheels again with Nokian's Weatherproof all seasons. From what I've read they should be very nearly as good as the A3s in the cold & snow, they seem to be better in the wet, and have been close in performance to the outgoing summer Dunlop SP01s over the last 1200+ miles in the last of the warm-ish weather.

 

I actually prefer the ride and road feel from the Nokians to the Dunlops, so as long as winter performance matches my expectations I'm happy to be back on the one set of wheels. I'll still rotate the alloys front <==> back twice a year to keep wear even (and stop them seizing on the hubs), but at least I don't have to sort out storage for the extra set any more.

[Dieselmonkey]

Get a decent set off all season tyres I did on my 2wd octy. Live in the high peak no problems getting about and no changing them in the summer.

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

[AnotherGareth]

Personally as a "performance driver" in my style of driving, my "premium summers" are much better in the summer for grip etc than those CC would be, so not suitable for me. If you drive more "sedately" then I would say get a set if you require better grip in the winter!

It's fun catching up on long running threads ... this comment almost made me laugh out loud. Fortunately I'm quite a sedate driver as some on here will attest. My wife and I have three cars, with different all season tyres on two of them, and for the third we have both winter and summer sets of wheels & tyres. While driving sedately, I find I go reasonably quickly in the cars with all season tyres. I've found the winter tyres we have don't feel all that reassuring when ambient is above a couple of degrees but I still seem to cover ground reasonably well. Being a sedate driver, my priorities are grip in poor weather conditions, rather than out and out speed. I reckon I can probably manage OK if the tyres are less optimal for more benign conditions.

Edited 1 February, 2016 by AnotherGareth

[Huwcymru]

Since we've had 4wd (range Rover HSE on a P plate - money pit - went, 52 plate Disco -great sold to rationalise number of cars) now a Superb DSG 4wd. We haven't had serious snow since.

 

Prior to the Rangie we had bad snow and I was driving a Saab Diesel auto convertible with no problems. I think it was due to very new Continental summer tyres (I think). The Superb has a newish mid range set so I'll be interested if it ever snows.