I was pointed to a local dealership that is recognized as thé VAG specialist on chiptuning and they do a respectable Stage 1 on the vRS TDI (184 - 225 / 380 - 460) for a reasonable price.

One of the cases made for it is that fuels are supposedly of a (much) higher quality here and that unlocks better potentials (I for one only use premium diesel).

 

 

However, I'm also told that 'nowadays' it's near-impossible for you (or the tuner) to hide this upgrade for your dealer. I'm not talking about a box here, they sell a straight software upgrade without ECU removal. Apart from having it wiped during routine service where they might not check for such deviations, how likely is it for them to 'spot' the deviation in the software?

 

And if they do, will they take any action? I've read somewhere that VAG dealerships supposedly 'mark' those cars upon spotting in the central VAG administration to have some ammunition during a possible warranty claim in the future, even though there is no claim (or even any technical malfunction) at that time. I'm wondering whether they will ignore it, wipe it, or do more.

 

I have no reservations about the quality of their work (there are loads of references to be found for them and all of them were positive), just about possible issues/discussions with the dealership.

I'm aware what a potential warranty exclusion may bring in terms of repercussions, no need to go into that, just interested in the dealers' side of the story.

Anything you do ECU wise will leave a trace, much like if you modify a file on your PC/Mac. If someone suspects and goes looking they will find it.

 

Or they will "test" drive it if it's in for a service and know something is up.

 

I've heard tale of garages resetting the ECU, whether it would then void your warranty is another matter...I suspect it would.

 

"You pays your money and you takes your chances"

Ask the dealership about how they feel about warranty claims. They may tow the VAG line that if the failure is related to the remap then you may not be covered. However, they may be willing to take on the risk of providing warranty (i. E. Cover the costs if vag wont).

There is a link to a good explanation of how the vag system flags non-standard maps and from my understanding, it's entirely automated. The dealership has no say on whether or something the information is provided. I'll see if i can find the link

Snet with speeling mistkaes from my phoen

This is worth a read

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7492

Snet with speeling mistkaes from my phoen

Edited 24 March, 201511 yr by Greg R

This is worth a read

http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7492

Snet with speeling mistkaes from my phoen

Yep thats the read and basically, they'll know.  From what I understood from the link, the dealerships have to do the scan or they don't get paid, VAG from the scan can see the map and then give the car a flag "TD1" from then on engine and running gear warranty claims are very iffy.  Somebody please inform me if they can read it any other way.

I had a 2003 registered mk1 rs from new... That one had an apr chip stage 1, with 4 days left on the warranty, the gearbox fell out... and was replaced no quibbles. The mk1 continued until early 2008 without any issues until my mk2 arrived. I went for revo that time, again, no issues, until my path was so rudely crossed by a Ford Focus... Currently have a mkl3 tdi with a dtuk tuning box.....

 

I have found my dealers always supportive. Find a dealer you can have a long term relationship with, they trust you, you trust them and work together, a car is a long term investment for most. My current dealer (I moved from another part of the country) rallies and knows from the start that a standard car is not what Im interested in. I have no idea if the ability to identify aftermarket remaps has improved since 2006, but having a chipped car has never proved problematic for me long term...

They can identify very easily, but they need a reason to look, they have to do a scan as the first part of a warranty claim and thats when they will see it .

The "TD1 flag" appears when VAG HQ identify a checksum error after comparing the previous recorded code on your ECU to current code. It seems the only way to restore the correct checksum (after adding a Stage1 tune etc) is to reflash the ECU binary with the original stock map from your car. In the US APR seems to get around this by downloading and storing the origanl maps from every car they flash. Apparently, no Golf GTI 7 has thrown a TD1 flag after being flashed back to it's stock map.

What about the Superchips Bluefin remap, can that be detected say if one removes it before a service?

There is usually a flash count on the ecu as it counts and remaps/revisions , I'm not sure if it's possible to get around this

Blufin is not (yet) available for the MK3 VRS / GTI 7 engine. Superchips, APR, Revo etc all program the ECU directly, and you'll need to take it back to them for a flash back to stock. Blufin DIY devices are not smart enough to beat the protection on these ECU's.

Are you sure?

 

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/search?make=33&fueltype=2&model=142&variant=2923

Are you sure?

http://www.mybluefin.co.uk/search?make=33&fueltype=2&model=142&variant=2923

Not the vrs

Oops! My fault. Sorry.

There is usually a flash count on the ecu as it counts and remaps/revisions , I'm not sure if it's possible to get around this

Flashing back to stock is just that - stock, no difference to how it was before you had it flashed.

The Siemens ECU on the Golf 7R & I presume is still the same on the O3 does not have a flash counter & so refer to last statement

The caveat in all of this is that no tuner will guarantee it can't be detected. Flashing errors / mistakes happen, detection methods evolve quickly, so what is undetectable today........

Edit- qualifying my post - flashing back to stock must be with your original stock file, not stock mode or similar

Pretty sure the ecu on the mk3 is different to the 7r and I'm pretty sure it has a flash counter

Pretty sure the ecu on the mk3 is different to the 7r and I'm pretty sure it has a flash counter

Not saying it's the identical ECU, but both are Siemens (in the O3 Tsi VRS), and the Golf 7R doesn't have a flash counter

Another caveat - 'doesn't have a flash counter ' = information recieved from a well respected tuner who provides custom maps, and hasn't seen one anywhere in the software

Lots of Siemens ecu's do have flash counters , but as they say "you pays your money and you take your chance"

Lots of Siemens ecu's do have flash counters , but as they say "you pays your money and you take your chance"

So like most information on this subject, it's as clear as mud

And very difficult to stay current , VAG are actively checking on remaps now , more than ever , just because they may or may not be able to find out now doesn't mean that won't change next week or next month

Mind you we are lucky here in some US States they scan the ecu during the mot , any unapproved changes between tests results in a fail and big bill to sort out

That is a lot of info, thank you all! 

I've contacted my lease company because I don't want to undertake anything that might get me or my employer into trouble, but they are a bunch of nay-sayers! They explained they didn't calculate the possible extra fuel and tire wear into the contract and even though I offered to pay extra to get their blessing they wouldn't go along with it. So no extra oomph for me I'm afraid!

A tuning box is the other route however, your then going into the realms of subterfuge and you'd have to carry with you at all times the few tools it takes should a hasty removal be required.  Basically, tuning boxes don't go near the ECU but sit between the ECU outputs and turbo/fuel injectors/engine tricking them to produce more power. As such, when removed they leave no trace (* see below) produce loads more power both BHP and torque.

 

However the *, if you're gonna overboost a turbo and get  more power, the fuel/air ratios and some sensor reading won't follow the VAG expected map now, I don't know whether the cars store this information but, its not unbelievabe that they wouldn't although, it may take a little more working out to prove some engine tuning had gone on a background trace possibly exsists. 

 

As Richf stated, what VAG do now and what they'll do in the near future is open for debate, I personally think if VAG wanna catch all possible tuned engines they need to be looking at the boost readings and not the ECU but, I ain't gona be telling them this.

 

Hope the info helps even if the English is ****e

Interestingly, in Switzerland many "main dealers" offer 3rd party upgrades so you can order a car & have it delivered with an upgraded exhaust or ECU.

They advertise these on the dealership websites & in the showrooms.

Obviously most dealers are only franchises & unrelated to the original manufacturer but it gives you more confidence that they cant argue over any warranty problems because they sold you the updates.

 

With regards to reflashing the ECU, I'm pretty sure they will all store a history/fingerprint of when it was flashed & the checksums/IDs/info about the software & calibration it was flashed with.

Even if you flash back again to the original calibration.

 

 

As BillyB says, a simple way to handle this is having a good dealer/service centre but this goes for any warranty claim or repair even if you didn't modify your car.

A tuning box is the other route however, your then going into the realms of subterfuge and you'd have to carry with you at all times the few tools it takes should a hasty removal be required.  Basically, tuning boxes don't go near the ECU but sit between the ECU outputs and turbo/fuel injectors/engine tricking them to produce more power. As such, when removed they leave no trace (* see below) produce loads more power both BHP and torque.

 

However the *, if you're gonna overboost a turbo and get  more power, the fuel/air ratios and some sensor reading won't follow the VAG expected map now, I don't know whether the cars store this information but, its not unbelievabe that they wouldn't although, it may take a little more working out to prove some engine tuning had gone on a background trace possibly exsists. 

 

As Richf stated, what VAG do now and what they'll do in the near future is open for debate, I personally think if VAG wanna catch all possible tuned engines they need to be looking at the boost readings and not the ECU but, I ain't gona be telling them this.

 

Well that's just it - they seem to store more than just ECU values, it stands to reason why they would want to store values such as oil temperature, turbo pressure and such. 

I heard on one occasion that some modern cars even log the speeds driven and brake forces applied. 

 

I can understand why this is all done, but I'm having issues with the whole principle of the manufacturer telling you what you can or cannot do with your purchased product. 

Yes, the warranty might be an issue if done incorrectly, but they have worked with ABT (in the case of VAG) for years and they know full well what is or isn't possible with their machinery so if the market is there, why not exploit it (again) by offering those packages at a premium, or at least allow others to do it in a way that is certified with the manufacturer.

 

Hope the info helps even if the English is ****e

 

 

  :p

Tuning boxes fool the ECU into increasing boost and fuel by providing it with incorrect (lower than reality) readings. The ECU thinks boost is too low for given throttle position so tells it to spin faster. Even if things like boost and fuel pressures were recorded (they are not), a tuning box would leave normal readings.