Hi all,

 

My aged Belkin router is starting to play up after 8 years, it is starting to drop the wireless connction more and more regularly and seems to run a little hotter than it used to.

 

I have tried cycling the power many times, and also have reset the router about 5 times now, so I think it needs it's pension now.

 

What are my options for a replacement that you chaps have found to be reliable. I am on conventional; 20mb broadband via orange (EE), via the phone line.

 

I had a look tonight at the Netgear N600, and a TP-Link unit that I can't remember the number of. I really only need it to connect to the net and to occasionally stream to my smart tv, so not exactly sending the worlds data traffic around the house.

 

Any help or guidance would really be appreciated before it finally throws its hand in altogether.

 

Many thanks,

 

Phil.

I would look at another Belkin or DLink

Sent from my Galaxy S5

I can’t fault our Netgear DGND3700, now not the most up-to-date router on the market but it’s just worked well continually for the last two and half years.

ChrisTids, thanks for the recommendation, that was one of the units I looked at today, but I have been reading online that they have weak wireless, have you found this at all?.

 

J306TD, thanks for the reply, may go Belkin again, but have always felt since I had my one that maybe I could do better. I just want to be better informed for when it actually pops it's clogs so I don't buy in a panic.

One option is to open the existing router and clean it. Probably full of dust/fluff. Or swap your broadband and get a "free" one.... Some reasonable deals on topcashback.

I have been using various TPLink routers for about 7 years now, and cant fault them; plus the antenna are detachable, so you can add +9db jobs if you need that extra boost of signal strength.

 

 

 

I wont touch Netgear again, not after the hassles I had getting a DGN2000 to play nice with other peoples kit - and the fact that the damned thing MELTED less than 2 years old.

ChrisTids, thanks for the recommendation, that was one of the units I looked at today, but I have been reading online that they have weak wireless, have you found this at all?.

I haven't found a problem with WiFi at all either at 2.4GHz or 5GHz. The router is right at the front of the house and the WiFi is perfectly usable in the shed in the back of the rear garden.

Edited 11 April, 201511 yr by ChrisTids

Depends on your budget & whether you're likely to get FTTC or VDSL (BT Infinity) in the near future.

 

I would think carefully, because you don't want to buy a new router & then find it won't accept VDSL!

 

IMHO, Top of the line is Draytek. Vigor 2760 or 2860 both will accept ADSL & VDSL without a modem.

 

A bit cheaper is the Billion 8800 series & Asus DSL-AC68U, both of which will deal with the new G.INP technology quite happily and then there's TP-Link amongst others, however some of these lower end routers don't handle the new G.INP very well if at all.

 

But do try and get a modem router because it saves having an unnecessary extra box, which uses electrickery.

I have Virgin cable and had massive problems with the interference on 2.4 GHz. I switched the original superhub onto modem mode and bought a Netgear WNDR600 (I think) just for wifi. It worked much better connected to my iMac on 5 GHz despite my PC never having an issue with 2.4.

I think heat kills them eventually and I rang VM and moaned a bit and was sent a Superhub 2, which is made by Netgear and also operates in 2.4 and 5 GHz. It actually seems to be pretty good but I might open up the old WNDR600, give it a clean and try and run it as a repeater.

DSL-N66U seeing as you are on vdsl.

Another one for the ASUS router range - very good with a decent web interface (at least in the current range of units)

And, BTW, they work very well

Edited 11 April, 201511 yr by jeallen01

I'm on Infinity 1 (Up to 39Mbs download) and a Home Hub 3 + BT Wi-Fi Base station (Which provides 5 Ghz Wi-Fi), 2 x Tenda  I GB switches, a Devolo 500mb powerline connection and Cat 6 cabling throughout.

 

Goes like stink and the wireless is acceptable, not great.  The bottleneck now is the Infinity connection.

 

Unlike others, I've had no problems with the HH3. I think that's because I'm only 250-300 yards from the copper street box and that we haven't had much wet weather in London for ages, so the signal/noise ratio is better than average.

 

With HH3 you need a separate BT supplied VDSL modem box.

 

I see Amazon are now selling HH4 for about £30 (Incl del). That has ADSL modem built in, 5 x 1 Gb network ports and dual band (2.4 & 5 Ghz) n wireless.

 

They are also selling the HH5 for £55 (incl del) . That has VDSL modem built in, 5 x 1Gb network ports and 5Ghz ac wireless.

 

There are some reports of customers having problems connecting Sky and games boxes, but quite honestly, I've read so many of these reports on the web about other equipment and software I have purchased that operated perfectly, that I tend to downrate as being the product of inexperienced users or spoilers.

 

I've had had my HH3 for 5 years, during which it has been intensively used. No problems.

 

Nick

Depends on your budget & whether you're likely to get FTTC or VDSL (BT Infinity) in the near future.

 

I would think carefully, because you don't want to buy a new router & then find it won't accept VDSL!

 

IMHO, Top of the line is Draytek. Vigor 2760 or 2860 both will accept ADSL & VDSL without a modem.

 

A bit cheaper is the Billion 8800 series & Asus DSL-AC68U, both of which will deal with the new G.INP technology quite happily and then there's TP-Link amongst others, however some of these lower end routers don't handle the new G.INP very well if at all.

 

But do try and get a modem router because it saves having an unnecessary extra box, which uses electrickery.

 

I'm on FTTC with Plusnet, and their free router is absolutely dreadful. I lasted a few weeks with it dropping signal and taking ages to reboot, then had enough and opted for a Billion 8800 which has been much better. The free routers given away with new contracts are generally the cheapest crap that can be bought. Not recommended as far as I can see.

Depends on your budget & whether you're likely to get FTTC or VDSL (BT Infinity) in the near future.

 

I would think carefully, because you don't want to buy a new router & then find it won't accept VDSL!

 

IMHO, Top of the line is Draytek. Vigor 2760 or 2860 both will accept ADSL & VDSL without a modem.

 

A bit cheaper is the Billion 8800 series & Asus DSL-AC68U, both of which will deal with the new G.INP technology quite happily and then there's TP-Link amongst others, however some of these lower end routers don't handle the new G.INP very well if at all.

 

But do try and get a modem router because it saves having an unnecessary extra box, which uses electrickery.

I disagree with your last sentence!!!!

 

You need the right modem (ADSL, VDSL, FTTC, etc.) for your ISP, but make your own choice of the local router to suit your own in-house requirements because that may change over time, and, as stated above, many of the ISP-supplied combined modem-routers are "not that good". In my case, Virgin supplied their Superhub 2 (which appears to be a not particularly good Netgear unit), but I set it (after not some little hassle) to be just a modem and connected it to my ASUS router RT-N66 (IIRC) which I what I CHOSE for my local requirements, but I can upgrade that at any time if I decide I need an "AC" router without any need to deal with Virgin. Power consumption requirements for both units are insignificant.

 

There are some reports of customers having problems connecting Sky and games boxes, but quite honestly, I've read so many of these reports on the web about other equipment and software I have purchased that operated perfectly, that I tend to downrate as being the product of inexperienced users or spoilers.

 

Too true, you just need to read the 1 star reviews on a few products on Amazon to see there are some real retards out there.

 

These days I wont dismiss a product unless at least 30% of the reviews are bad,. or there is a sudden spike in bad reviews - which often signals a bad batch coming through.

I'm on Infinity 1 (Up to 39Mbs download) and a Home Hub 3 + BT Wi-Fi Base station (Which provides 5 Ghz Wi-Fi), 2 x Tenda  I GB switches, a Devolo 500mb powerline connection and Cat 6 cabling throughout.

 

Goes like stink and the wireless is acceptable, not great.  The bottleneck now is the Infinity connection.

 

Unlike others, I've had no problems with the HH3. I think that's because I'm only 250-300 yards from the copper street box and that we haven't had much wet weather in London for ages, so the signal/noise ratio is better than average.

 

With HH3 you need a separate BT supplied VDSL modem box.

 

I see Amazon are now selling HH4 for about £30 (Incl del). That has ADSL modem built in, 5 x 1 Gb network ports and dual band (2.4 & 5 Ghz) n wireless.

 

They are also selling the HH5 for £55 (incl del) . That has VDSL modem built in, 5 x 1Gb network ports and 5Ghz ac wireless.

 

There are some reports of customers having problems connecting Sky and games boxes, but quite honestly, I've read so many of these reports on the web about other equipment and software I have purchased that operated perfectly, that I tend to downrate as being the product of inexperienced users or spoilers.

 

I've had had my HH3 for 5 years, during which it has been intensively used. No problems.

 

Nick

News to me, you need an OR modem for FTTC with the HH4. HH5 needs no external modem for FTTC.

I may have got this wrong as I was speaking from memory.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/bt-home-hub-4-review

From the photo in the above article, it appears that:-

1). HH4 has a DSL port (Grey in colour)on the LHS of the unit (When viewed from the back) - HH3 has a network
port, in the same position, also grey, marked ADSL.

2). HH4 has a WAN network port (Red/orange in colour)on the RHS of the unit (When viewed from the back)
- HH3 has a network port, red in colour, marked BT Infinity next to the ADSL port i.e LHS of the unit
(When viewed from the back). On the HH3 this port connects to the separate OpenReach modem.

3). HH4 has 4 x LAN ports, coloured yellow, one of which (No 4 - RHS) is marked Gige i.e. 1Gbs and the other three
are marked Ethernet an operate at 10/100 Mbs - HH3 is the same.


Having never used a HH4, I'm entirely not sure whether the Red/orange WAN port is BT Infinity compatible or whether an additional modem is required

 

Postscript

 

According to this HH4 spec extracted from BT Community website, you might not need a separate modem :-

 

The new BT Hub 4 product specification 

Ports and Sockets 
• ADSL network interface for BT Broadband 
• 1x RJ45 Gigabit WAN interface for BT Infinity 
• 4x RJ45 Ethernet LAN ports 
• 1x Gigabit Ethernet 
• 3x 10/100 Base T Ethernet 
• 1x USB 2.0 master socket x1 

Buttons 
• Wireless: WPS 
• Reset (Pinhole) 
• Restart 
• On/Off power button 

LED 
• Power 
• Broadband 
• Wireless 
• 
Weight & dimensions 
• 301 (gms) 
• 116 high x 236 wide x 31 deep (mm) 

Wireless 
• Dual band concurrent wireless 
• 2.4GHz: 802.11n dual-stream 2x2 MIMO. Back compatible with 802.11 b/g 
• 5GHz: 802.11n dual-stream 2x2 MIMO. Back compatible with 802.11a 
• WPS wireless connection 
• Smart Wireless – automated channel selection in 2.4 & 5GHz 
• Wireless channel operation 
• 2.4GHz: 20MHz (default), 40MHz supported 
• 5GHz: 40MHz (default), 20MHz supported 
• Up to 64 simultaneous wireless users supported 

Wireless encryption 
• 2.4GHz: WPA & WPA2 (default), WPA, WPA2 and WEP 64/40 
• 5GHz: WPA2 
• 
Wireless Transmission speed 
• 2.4GHz wireless: up to 300Mbps 
• 5 GHz wireless: up to 300Mbps 
• Up to 150 Mbps (20MHz) 
• Up to 300 Mbps (40MHz) 

Power consumption 
• Latest intelligent power management; hub functions are monitored and individually put into power save mode when not in use. 
• 
Other features 
• Packaging designed to fit through typical UK letter box 
• Smart set up – new CD-less installation 
• Support for BT Wifi 
• Packaging is 100 per cent recycled card with non-petrochemical inks 

 

 

Further, I think I'm correct in saying that the only differences between HH4 and HH5 is that on the HH5 all the yellow LAN ports have now been made 1 Gbs and that the wifi is now 5 Ghz only, AC standard (with fall back to n, b and g ?). I've found a lot of Wi-Fi connected devices still don't support 5 Ghz e.g. My Blackberry Curve 9300 doesn't support 5 Ghz, whilst my Blackberry Playbook does - both purchased within a few months of each other in 2011 and 2012 respectively. So, in that respect, maybe the HH4 is a reasonable, cheap interim solution, pending replacement of other devices, even if requires two boxes (Modem + HH4) or three boxes, as I've got (Modem +HH4 + cheap gigabyte switch (Tenda or TPlink)).

 

 

 

Nick

Edited 13 April, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

I withdraw my recommendation of the Billion 8800 series. Due to multiple issues with the Billion SN3100ND Wi-Fi extender and the 3010ND USB Adaptor.

 

So I would look at the Asus DSL-AC68U instead, as it works with both ADSL & VDSL, has ac networking as well as the older stuff.

I was talking to the BT engineer installing my fibre last year, and he told me that the BT white VDSL router was STILL the best you could get for VDSL use. He explained that because BT's VDSL implementation is very different to the rest of the world, and fairly new technology, very few people have much experience with it and that ALL of the 1st/2nd gen VDSL kit from 3rd party suppliers had at least a few issues.

 

He said I was doing the riot thing by using the white router for my VDSL connection, and using a good quality WiFi router to send it around the house. (Although I do intend to fit a Gigagbit wired network when I have the time).

It seems that the BT OR ECI modems are having issues with BT's new technology called G.INP, they won't always connect without a firmware update. Some Draytek one's are also having issues too.

 

TP-Link have a few "new" beta firmwares available to mitigate some of the symptoms that G.INP has bought to the fore, Asus has a new firmware for the DSL-AC68U as well.

Maybe not as quick as I thought.

 

I've just tested the transmission speed round my home network (Home hub 3b + Tenda Gigabyte switches + Cat 6 cabling running a Windows 8.1 and a windows 7 PC) and some Lan Speed Test software was showing a desktop to desktop speed at a maximum of 170Mbs (Write) and 190Mbs (Read), which slows down to a minimum of 2Mbs (Write) and 8Mbs (Read) for the most distant desktop to 64Gb USB 2.0 stick attached to the HH3.

 

My perception was that the whole system was much faster. Obviously not.

 

 I'd have thought that the max rates on a straight desktop to desktop transfer should  be about 400- 450 Mbs, given that the capacity limitation is the 500Mbps Devolo powerline link.

 

Even so, the link  is good enough to run a HD You tube video and sound to Desktop 1 and then onto Desktop 2 using remote desktop and be able to simultaneously multitask other functions on the RD and the current system speed line balances well with the 5 Ghz Wi-Fi radio which reports about 160Mbs for connections in the same room.

 

Now I've got to look around to see where the bottleneck is in the wired connections of the Home Network.

 

 

Nick

Edited 15 April, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Just installed Microsoft Network Monitor vers 3.4 (Free) and have carried out an initial capture of all the transactions, foreground and background, going on over the whole network over a 2 minute period - total, 14,000 !

 

Now to see what is initiating the majority of them.

 

 

Nick

Edited 15 April, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Just installed Microsoft Network Monitor vers 3.4 (Free) and have carried out an initial capture of all the transactions, foreground and background, going on over the whole network over a 2 minute period - total, 14,000 !

 

Now to see what is initiating the majority of them.

 

 

Nick

 

Wireshark will do the same if not provide you more information

I didn't realise it, but for those with the white BT Open Reach VDSL modems, there were two modems on offer. One made by ECI (The Electronics Corporation of Israel) and one made by Huawei.

 

And there are FTTC cabinets to match i.e. one type made by ECI and one by Huawei :-

 

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connection/New-Install-Huawei-DSLAM-ECI-Modem/m-p/827024/highlight/true#M90680

 

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,12293.msg231649.html#msg231649

 

Some say its better to match ECI in the home to ECI FTTC cabinet and the same for Huawei. But it appears that BT engineers may have been handing out types of VDSL modems according to what they had available in the back of the van, rather than what matched the cabinet in the street. This may have contributed to  poor connections and motivated people to start looking around for alternate modems. Whilst this is relevant to HH3 users, I don't know whether this distinction applies to HH4 or HH5.

 

Further, it appears that the Huawei modems were better at handling connections where the FTTC was at a distance from the user i.e. miles in some cases:-

 

https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Infinity-Speed-Connection/Is-my-cabinet-ECI-or-Huawei/td-p/1215151

 

https://huaweihg612hacking.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/the-vdsl2-modem-from-eci/

 

Also, the Huawei is easier to unlock (with the ECI you have to open the modem box and do some "Home work" on it, whereas the Huawei can be flashed):-

 

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=10538.0

 

As referred to above BT are introducing an improved form of error correction, G Inp/PhyR,  on VDSL lines only, which some reports are claiming increases throughput by 15% (Apparently Sky brought this to ADSL lines 3 years ago and BT are generally well behind other World telecoms providers). :-

 

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,14867.msg277618.html#msg277618

 

It may render some VDSL modems unusable without a firmware upgrade. But there are some solutions for older kit:

 

http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15283.msg284199.html#msg284199

 

The post includes a list of modems known to be OK with G.INP"

 

 

Extract from "Kitz" site:-

 

"Compatible Modem/Routers known to work with G.INP:

ASUS DSL-AC68U
Billion 8800NL
Billion 8800AXL
BT HomeHub 5 Type B  (BCM chipset & Software version V0.07.01.0235-BT)
Fritzbox vdsl routers - 7390 & 7490 are ok. unsure if it applies to all models.
Netgear DGND3700v1 (Custom firmware: 2015-02-08)
Sky Hub SR102
Talk Talk Super router (Huawei HG635)
Thomson TG589vn v3
Zyxel VMG8324
Zyxel VMG8924


Modem Routers showing increased latency and lower sync

The first three on the list all contain the same Lantiq VRX-268 modem chipset & SoC. All 3 appear to be showing similar symptoms.

BT Openreach ECI modem
BT Homehub 5 Type A (Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.204)
TP Link TD-W9980   


Updates from TP-Link.
07/04/2015 -
TP-Link are aware of the problem on the TD-W990. We will keep you updated.
09/04/2015 -   
TP-Link are aware of a compatibility issue with the chipset which should be capable of G.INP.    TP-Link R&D are jointly working with Lantiq on finding a solution for the TD-W9980.
11/04/2015 -
PN User JHewess is testing beta f/w for TP-link which appears to be successfully working with G.INP on his line.
13/04/2015 -
TP-Link releases beta f/w for g.inp.   More information & download http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15322.0.html
15/04/2015
TP-Link hope to have news about an official f/w release soon.   Problem identified with the underlying Lantiq f/w.

 

 

 

Bugger ! it appears that the older ECI modems won't work with G.INP and neither will HH5 type A.

 

There's a question mark over TP link.

 

 

 

 

 

Anybody know whether Sam Knows is a site worth investigating:-

 

https://www.samknows.com/

 

 

 

Nick

Edited 19 April, 201511 yr by Clunkclick

Using : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cisco-Linksys-Maximum-Performance-E4200-Dual-Band/dp/B004MKN1DM

 

Had no issues, decent firmware and no problems with reception.

 

Dual channel set up meaning I can chuck newer devices on a better connection.