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gewstarr

Broken exhaust pipe and bad steering joint

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gewstarr    12

Hi guys!

 

I'm back, after having something like six months of smooth sailing with my Mk1 2003 Estate BBY-engine Fabia. Today, I went on drop-in for the annual "MOT" (or our Swedish equivalence, anyways). I was a bit scared about the handbrake, but this was not to be a problem. Instead, the women who checked under my car showed me something entirely different. As it turned out, the piece of metal pipe that holds the two pieces of the exhaust system together (with two clamps) had collapsed. Both(!) of the two clamps had actually broke right of, due to heavy corrosion. It was no question that I was going to fail the "MOT", and she said that emissions would probably suffer as well. However, I was lucky, and somehow managed to pass the emissions test, even though she showed how both soot and actual exhaust was leaking from the exhaust.

 

nbdyt2.jpg

 

Like this wasn't enough, she showed me that the left front wheel steering joint was bad. She showed me by putting her hands 9/3 O'clock, respectively, and this indeed showed how the wheel did have some travel. However, she said that this was a common issue and usually all that was needed replace was a bolt, maybe 10 cm long or something like that. She showed it to me, and it seemed to have threads and all, thus shouldn't be that hard to replace. I did of course fail, so now I have 30 days to report back with fixed errors.

 

I drove to official Skoda retailer in our city and bought the official OEM part # 1K0 253 141K, which came to cost me something equal to £ 20, fairly okey. I thought to myself that it may have been wiser to just go into any cheap place and buy two pieces of thick screw clamps, and remove the two old pieces, and use this on the old piece of "U"-thing that goes around the two pieces of pipe. Besides, this "U-piece" that is under the two clamps could very well be nasty stuck with rust, and then it'll be a nightmare removing it for replacement, anyways. Has anyone here done this procedure, and has he or she any great advice to give me? Something like WD-40 and sledge hammer?

 

Now, back to the steering joint issue. I asked Skoda retailer about this as well. He then told me that it was not true, that only replacing the mentioned bolt would not fix the gap/play that had caused me to fail the MOT, but I instead needed to replace the entire steering joint. So, now I'm on this Swedish website for cheap spare parts. I found this part which seem to be the bolt-looking thing that the MOT-technician mentioned, and it was really dead cheap, so I'm of course hoping replacing this will fix everything. On the other hand, there is this part, which cost more. Is this what I really need?

 

Now, come to think about it, reading the MOT paper, it says "(EG: 2.1.3) Steering joint, front, left, OUTER, play", and the more expensive spare part (of the two links in the section above) is named "outer", so I could actually end up having to buy this, am I right? Any experience here in replacing those?

 

Is the process of having a garage press bushings involved in this, or is simple wrench keys all I need? I really hope I could get away with the latter. Any ideas or advice on this? Can I just jack the front of my car on my parking lot outside and go? Put marks on the threads so that I won't need to make new wheel alignment and so on? Nothing <100 kg:isch will totally burst down into the ground when I release some of the bolts, leaving me stranded? Any piece of advice would be much appreciated here, you guys have helped me out a lot way back when I was in a situation, so I know there are some true expertise floating around here! :)

 

Cheers!

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TMB    963

Just lever the exhaust sleeve off with a screwdriver. It will come off as done it myself. The one remaining clamp is already broken.

 

 

Now, come to think about it, reading the MOT paper, it says "(EG: 2.1.3) Steering joint, front, left, OUTER, play", and the more expensive spare part (of the two links in the section above) is named "outer", so I could actually end up having to buy this, am I right? Any experience here in replacing those?

 

Is the process of having a garage press bushings involved in this, or is simple wrench keys all I need? I really hope I could get away with the latter. Any ideas or advice on this? Can I just jack the front of my car on my parking lot outside and go? Put marks on the threads so that I won't need to make new wheel alignment and so on? Nothing <100 kg:isch will totally burst down into the ground when I release some of the bolts, leaving me stranded? Any piece of advice would be much appreciated here, you guys have helped me out a lot way back when I was in a situation, so I know there are some true expertise floating around here! :)

 

Cheers!

 

The part you need is what we call a track rod end (your second pic link). You really need a ball joint separator to get the tapered end out of the steering arm. Sometimes you can use a couple of hammers but that is a poor way to do it. The other end is just held to the trackrod with a locknut. You can mark the threads for a rough idea but ideally you should have the tracking checked after replacing it.

 

Ball joint separators...

 

566776.jpg

 

images.jpg

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gewstarr    12

Big thanks for your response @TMB!

Nice clarification. I found one item ( http://www.biltema.se/sv/Bil---MC/Bilreservdelar/Chassidelar/Fram-och-Bakvagn/Spindelled/Gaffelkilset-5-delar-2000021584/ ) that maybe could be worth buying tomorrow, if these fork-looking things could somehow ease this whole operation. Do you thing this set of forks will help here, I mean are sizes important?

I also found this ( http://www.biltema.se/sv/Bil---MC/Verktyg-och-Verkstadsutrustning/Chassi/Kulbultsavdragaset-3-st-2000023848/ ) tool, from which i believe "ball joint separator" would be the correct translation. Also here, I'm a bit curious on what you think of the sizes in this box. I mean, it's not a fortune (399 SEK = £ 31), but if they won't help out at all it's just a waste, isn't it?

Gosh, I'm really thrilled about going head first into this project. To be honest, I'm a bit more nervous about the track rod end replacement operation than the exhaust leak situation.

However, I love challenges. Anything else I should think of? Both front wheels jacked and placed on axle stands when doing the track rod piece, or is it (I think I read that someplace) easier to just lift the side (left, in my case) to be replaced?

Oh, also, while on it, this is not like when doing e.g. brake discs or such, is it? I mean that you are supposed to do both sides at a time (never just one). This feels like another deal, safe to just change on the sketchy side here, right? Besides, doing both I'll probably just mess up wheel alignment more.

Edited by gewstarr

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TMB    963

Don't be nervous about doing the track rod end. It's a very simple, basic job. You don't have to do both sides if the other one is OK.  Any of those balljoint separators will work - just select one that fits the joint well. The fork type tend to split the rubber cover and are quite brutal, so best use the fork only on items to be scrapped.

 

Jack up the side to be replaced, remove wheel and put car on axle stand.

 

Slacken the locknut (1) but keep it roughly in the same place to preserve tracking as much as possible.

 

Remove the top nut (2) (sometimes the whole pin will spin with the nut as you try to undo it. If that happens, you will have to cut off the nut or try putting a trolley jack under the track rod end to lift and jam it while you undo the nut.

 

Use your balljoint separator to separate the track rod end pin from the steering arm.

 

Unscrew the track rod end from the steering rod (don't let the rod turn or you may twist the rack bellows). Reassemble everything in reverse order. Apply correct torque settings if you wish but I just do it by feel. Ideally get tracking checked.

 

 

 

untitled.jpg

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gewstarr    12

Once again, @TMB, can't thank you enough for great(!) explanatory guidance, and encouragement. I believe that sometimes "don't be nervous, it's really a basic operation" is all you need to hear, regardless if it's about changing clutch, timing belt, or ball joint; "mind over matter".

Today me and my lady went to our local DIY hall that has a lift. Got the car pumped up high and went in under. The remaining rusty piece of clamp fell right of (pretty expected, yeah), and the metal U-formed wrap around the exhaust pipes actually loosened up much easier than I'd guessed.

0445da7162c3e835c0cbf143f822a40f.jpg

A bit of being with a flat screwdriver was all that was needed, and it was lose so I could easily slide it aside and lower that end of exhaust pipe and remove replace it. Whole process took a couple of minutes, tops.

3f2f08836fa784f8ca89bc66af64d627.jpg

So, a flat screwdriver and a 13 mm key was all the tools we used for this operation. Smooth as ice.

Now, the tie rod is what's left. Great thing also, as it turned out I didn't need to buy those boxes that I linked earlier, but they had lose pieces that was much cheaper. So, now I think I got everything I need.

ae593beb0ec46be0dbd7d1f55d4b4068.jpg

I have also found a cheap replacement tie rod, but unfortunately they were temporarily out of stock, so I'll get back Thursday, Friday the very latest. I'll report back to you guys then.

Cheers! [emoji1]

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gewstarr    12

Today I decided to get going with the other MOT-failing issue, the rod end.

42bec7cc5d9c8e649bf0d911d4a19eb6.jpg

So, things started really bad. The small lock screw on top of the but was so rusty so I couldn't tell if it was a Torx or a hex. I couldn't get a 6 mm in there so I ended up with a 5.5 mm, which of course were really stupid, since I can't recall ever seeing any car hex screw with a half millimeter size.

Anyways, I — of course — messed up what was left of the screw head, and the nut was just spinning. Also, I think the nut was a 19 mm, but it was so corroded so I could use the U-side (not the O-side, though) of an 18 mm wrench. This didn't help much, since the nut was still just spinning round and round.

I decided to use a nut cracker, and this process of cracking the nut took me forever, and it was far from best time of my life. Finally, I got the nut of. Now, I didn't even need to use any of the two tools (illustrated in previous post) that I'd bought for this task, the rod end just fell right of.

9db187b9d5236adffa67f9e09169f1cc.jpg

Next hardship was getting the threaded piece of. I took a photo on how many threads were visible of the inner rod, unsure if this world be of any help.

f9c7d0956e8ef5d89fc9aa3ec44981dd.jpg

Now, a bit embarrassing, I had completely forgotten about the lock nut, and due to all corrosion it pretty much looked like part of the p-rod, so I spent a really long time trying to get the thing of using the complete wrong method. I took a break and ran in, revisited this thread, were the beautiful illustration with painted marks (#1 / #2) suddenly woke me up. D'oh, palm face, how stupid of me. I went back out and now, having in mind the interaction between the (20 mm) lock nut and threaded rod end. Unfortunately, I had no 20 mm spanner so an adjustable wrench had to do the trick. It was still really hard to get the piece lose, though.

ffc70701c3af62f6b0d1f89140095593.jpg

Finally I figured that instead of holding the 18 mm spanner in one hand and the adjustable (here 20 mm) wrench in the other, I could place the spanner so it leaned on the lower control arm, thus giving indirect leverage; meaning i could use full physical force on the adjustable wrench. Now, finally it loosened up. I counted turns, of course.

 



A while later the new rod end was installed, and the toe in is probably a bit off, but the steering wheel is at least steady centered, i.e. not turned in any direction.

56f878ae6c50b11984b7d0d10f3e6a13.jpg

I've learnt a lot from this "simple" job, and tomorrow (at 10 AM) I'm booked for a MOT subsequent control or checkup. Hopefully they'll be cool with my effort. I'm endlessly thankful for the help I've received here, and from @TMB in particular. Edited by gewstarr
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hutchysrs50    2,002

Well done for sticking with it, it comes with experience I guess.

I put a spanner on the locking nut, hit it with the other hand and it's free, if not a hammer.

Put force up over into the track rod end so the taper is tight in the hole and wind it off. The Allen key is only good for tightening, once more than a few month old is a waste of time.

All in all about a 10 minute job!

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vindaloo    655

Track rod end, tie rod end or a tie rod is a multi-link suspension thing. :)

 

Good job sticking with it and getting the new rod end installed.

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UdayP    20
Hi,

 

Brilliant post on the replacement of the exhaust sleeve. I'm happy to hear it was a doddle to replace. It has actually given me more courage to revisit mine.

 

I have something similar brewing on mine as well, although probably not in such a state as yours was!

 

Mine was recommended by the dealer to 'keep an eye' on since it was 'blowing soot during my last service in December, though I think it will still be good for 6-12 months, I appreciate replacing minor items where I can :angel: .

2015_12_07_08_31_00.jpg

 

 

I ordered a replacement to do myself from fleabay, managed to get a genuine part too! Part Number 1K0253141P which is a 65mm diameter clamp (thanks to the dealership for providing it in the inspection report! :D )


image.jpg

 

Looking at a couple of photos I took, my only issue is getting to the nut on the old clamps. I managed to get under and take this photo of the top side of the clamp.

20160228_133813.jpg

 

  • Firstly they are facing away from under access, but at a slight angle which I might be able to get a socket onto it, but it might need to be a deep socket to clear the bolt screw. Maybe an offset ring spanner could help here.
  • The second, probably more worrying is the corrosion. I could probably spray some WD40 onto it to loosen it if it hasn't completely seized. Hopefully the nuts will undo.
I was wondering if there was another way to remove the clamp, maybe cut it where the join meets with a sharp saw?

 

Either way I will give it a go and see what happens. To be honest, I would firstly appreciate an opinion on the condition of the clamp and 'blowing soot'. So a few questions from me:

  1. Should I bother changing the clamp?
  2. Is the part I have ordered actually the correct one, I have seen another similar one with 60mm diameter.
  3. What size is the nut? I think it's 13mm which I should be able to confirm when I get the replacement.
  4. Should I apply any sort of exhaust paste or will a decent clean of the meeting pipes do?
  5. Do I need to apply any threadlock or grease to the new nuts?
 

I managed to rub some soot off when I got under the car and it didn't look like much.

20160228_133909_2.jpg

 

I have around 57k miles on the clock for reference.

I also have tried to twist and slide it, its on there pretty solid and no sign of snapping of clamp bits like the OP.

 

Also if I do replace it, I will be positioning it so I have the bolt access from the bottom.

 

Thanks for looking everyone!

Edited by UdayP

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sepulchrave    1,456

Just slit the old band clamps with an angle grinder then knock 'em off with a rough chisel (blunt screwdriver).

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Wino    1,859

Unless it's making a lot of noise, I'd be inclined to leave that until one or other, or both of the sections that its joining need replacement.  Disturbance of old exhaust bits can have a knock-on effect where corroded, weakened, adjacent stuff breaks and you end up replacing the lot.  Having said that, the beauty of these style clamps is that you don't have to brutalise the exhaust to unfit/replace them.

 

As said above though, I wouldn't even bother trying to undo those nuts if you do go for it.  Can you get a hacksaw in to cut the bolts, maybe with the blade upside down or sideways? That's what I did. (Don't have an angle grinder).

Edited by Wino

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sepulchrave    1,456

Every man should have an angle grinder, preferably two, a 4.5" and a 9", hell even a dremel would slit those rusty clamps quickly enough. Gurls are scared of angle grinders and chainsaws.

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UdayP    20

Thanks for your input everyone!

 

I may have a go and cut the bolts where it meets between the two plates to get it off. I think I can get a thin blade hack saw between the two.

 

I don't have an angle grinder unfortunately, also I would need a battery operated one since I don't have power access. I think I could get it off with a little bit of sawing and 'gentle' persuasion. Angling the blade or turning it upside down will help. I have a junior hack saw too with some pretty sharp blades (I used it to saw off the bolt of my old control arm ball joint on my golf - pesky buggers!).

 

I do agree that I probably shouldn't touch it if it isn't making a loud noise, but every now and then after a lengthy drive I can hear the exhaust blowing slightly from under, yet when I return, it sounds quiet and normal. I think the clamp is contributing to this noise. Maybe it has something to do with temperature change etc.

 

I will give it a go this weekend, so lets see! Now that I have the part, I have an itch to get it replaced!

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UdayP    20

Happy Sunday!

 

After waiting for a decent weekends worth of weather I managed to get under the car with an attempt to replace the exhaust clamp.

 

I had previously gotten under to try and remove the bolts but they were not going to budge and getting a hacksaw at the correct angle was too difficult. Instead I used an angle grinder as advised. A short while and a few sparks later the bolts were cut. I slipped the old clamp off and went to fit the new clamp on.

 

Here is the beginning of my frustration. I had bought the incorrect size. 5mm too big apparently. The part I had was 1K0 253 141P. The old one was 1K0 253 141N and which I couldn't view the part number as it was facing way from me. Now, I checked this with my genuine dealer beforehand AND since it was written on my service report I went with their word. I also saw this part was listed against my car on lots of different parts websites.  :thumbdown:

 

In desperation, I found the part online through 'click and collect' at a national parts supplier. The clamp was the size I needed and was branded by Klarius.

 

Take 2. I put the new clamp on, tightened it up nice and snug and turned the car on. Gave it a few revs and watched for any leaks. I could hear a leak, then I managed to spot some water expelling at a couple of points when the revs die down. So I got back under and gave it a few more turns and pretty much tightened it as much as I could. Turned the car over again and checked for leaks. Again I heard a leak and spotted a few more water drops blowing out the edge of the clamp, though less this time.

 

At this point I had pretty much had a long day as I had errands to run in the afternoon and packed up.

 

So what should I do?

 

  1. Get an original part and retry the clamp.
  2. Get some silicone sealant, undo the clamp, apply some and tighten it up again.
  3. Do the above two.
  4. Leave it and hope it stops leaking.

 

The leak is not massive and I haven't noticed any major difference in the car performance or fuel usage. But I can hear it blow back as the revs drop. I read that sometimes its normal to see water drops too? But I shouldn't hear the blow back noise I'm sure.

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UdayP    20

Thanks for the advice!

I have made an order for that assembly paste and will be giving it another go this weekend. I have also ordered some new split lock washers to replace the ones on the clamp.

I'll do it this long weekend and hopefully no more leak.

Got to also change the rear bump stops and possibly clean the rear brake assembly as it binds slightly. I have already loosened the handbrake cable on that side which helped but it didn't totally cure it.

More pics and posts to come.

Edited by UdayP

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UdayP    20

Got the paste and washers I needed today so I managed to redo the clamp.

 

After completing I started it up and there was a small noise indicating a leak. After a 10 minute drive the noise disappeared! Hey presto! no more leak! 

I think it must be due to the expanding properties of the paste and the expansion of the pipe had plugged up the little gap.

 

Thanks Lee!

post-134664-0-28600700-1461773642_thumb.jpg

Edited by UdayP
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