Gearbox is whining a bit and my input shaft bearing is a bit noisy.

 

In my attempt to prolong the life of the box a bit I have decided to add some friction modifier http://www.archoil.com/ar9000-friction-modifiers/.

 

I had the box oil replaced by a local garage with OEM stuff about 3 months ago.

 

My question is, will 'overfilling' the box by 180-200ml with this archoil stuff be detrimental? I have done lots of reading on overfilling, with a lot of people describing the problems with it, but will just 180ml-200ml make a difference?

 

thoughts?

 

thanks

 

 

You will struggle to get it in, you will need to get some high lift jacks to jack the front end up high enough so the oil is away from level/fill hole, otherwise it will just run straight back out as you put it in!

You will struggle to get it in, you will need to get some high lift jacks to jack the front end up high enough so the oil is away from level/fill hole, otherwise it will just run straight back out as you put it in!

I was just going to jack one side up so that the oil level falls away from the filler plug? 

 

I guess the other option is to undo the drain plug just a bit so that 180ml seeps out? I'd prefer not to do this though as I don't have any new stuff to put back in if I let too much/ all of it out by accident... 

I'd be completely amazed if that amount of overfill did any mischief. I'd be nearly as amazed if your additive goo helped anything. If it were of benefit, wouldn't it be a component part or 'normal' gear oil?

I'd be completely amazed if that amount of overfill did any mischief. I'd be nearly as amazed if your additive goo helped anything. If it were of benefit, wouldn't it be a component part or 'normal' gear oil?

cool, well I have put some in my engine oil already and running a lot quieter, so must be doing something... In-fact it's now that quiet I can hear the gearbox a lot more.

 

May or may not make a difference to the gearbox, worth a shot at £16 I figure :-) 

any other views as to whether this is going to cause a problem? thanks

I think it is fair to say your gearbox isn't pressurised so it shouldn't cause any issues in my opinion .

You might read various blurb around it causing excessive drag in your gearbox causing extra heat and all that good b#*locks but I'm not convinced, especially considering the amounts we are talking.

I know I've overfilled my gearbox slightly as I could only top the bloody thing up whilst I had the front end jacked up! Lol

Its done thousands of trouble free miles since I did that.

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got round to this today, unscrewed the filler plug and oil started to trickle out, so i re-tightened back up. It must have already been overfilled (car was dead level - on a concrete base that was meant for a garage which has not been built yet).

 

So I slowly unscrew the drain plug and I get a couple of drips, of which I am catching in a clean metal container, then unscrew a bit more and whoooosh, the plug pops out and the oil starts ****ing everywhere. I lost some on the ground but manages to catch some in the container. I re-tightened the drain plug as quickly as I could. At this point I hoped I had not lost too much. So i then start filling up the box again, first with the Archoil supplement, then the bit I caught in the metal container. It started to drip/slowly flow out of he filler port with this, so I re-tightened the filler plug and job done.

 

 

When I opened the filler plug initially, the gearbox was warm but not hot. Is it likely that my box was overfilled or will the oil still been expanded due to its temperature? I figure if the oil was running out of the filler hole before i plugged back up it will be fine?

 

 

As far as the Archoil supplement goes, I will report back when I have run it a bit!

 

 

Mike. 

I'd reckon that the worst thing that could happen if the gearbox is overfilled is that your fuel economy would drop a bit and the oil might find somewhere to weep out of that it would not have if the oil level was "spot on". As said already, the gearbox would normally have a breather/vent to avoid it being pressurised.

You were undoing the upper of the two plugs on the gearbox weren't you?.................& not the lower? If the upper one was leaking loads of oil when undone & the car level then the gearbox was overfilled & most likely not drained properly beforehand! I would start over, gear oil warm, then fully drain & leave draining for 1hr, then go back & refill with new oil until it runs out of top hole.

I'd leave the bloody thing alone, if a gearbox needs topping up then you have a leak, if not then forget about it, SNAKE OIL IS NEVER THE RIGHT ANSWER TO FIX A MECHANICAL PROBLEM!

 

The oil used to fill the gearbox at the factory is expensive and very high quality, leave it alone.

 

The oil used to fill the gearbox at the factory is expensive and very high quality, leave it alone.

 

& needs replacing every 5yrs......................

 

if you want the best out of the gearbox. I have done my old Fabia twice, no problems, just used the Millers Motorsport version of the oil which is much slicker at operating temp that the OEM fluid.

& needs replacing every 5yrs......................

 

if you want the best out of the gearbox. I have done my old Fabia twice, no problems, just used the Millers Motorsport version of the oil which is much slicker at operating temp that the OEM fluid.

 

Says you, but not the gearbox manufacturer, they're filled for life and you won't find a professional who'll say otherwise.

Says you, but not the gearbox manufacturer, they're filled for life and you won't find a professional who'll say otherwise.

 

Well known generally to drain & refill every 5yrs even on BWM "filled for life" autos it needs doing........various articles in Car mechanic monthly & other mechanics mags.

 

Just like stupid long life servicing on engine oils, you can do it but in the long term it knackers the engine!

 

Also when I did mine each time the gearbox was quieter & better/smoother in movement & feel etc after the refill.

Also when I did mine each time the gearbox was quieter & better/smoother in movement & feel etc after the refill.

 

Same here.

any other views as to whether this is going to cause a problem? thanks

I'd give it a go.

 

Alternatively, get a syringe & some tube & syringe 180ml out of the filler hole.

Says you, but not the gearbox manufacturer, they're filled for life and you won't find a professional who'll say otherwise.

The manufacturers definition of "Life" is 160,000km.  

 

I guess if you only intend keeping a car that long then you are good-to-go.  

 

Personally, I did mine at around 120,000km and in hindsight It should have been done at around 80,000km

The manufacturers definition of "Life" is 160,000km.

I guess if you only intend keeping a car that long then you are good-to-go.

Personally, I did mine at around 120,000km and in hindsight It should have been done at around 80,000km

It doesn't say that in the service book though does it? There is no specified gearbox oil change for the MK1 Fabia VRS? Or have I missed it?

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It doesn't say that in the service book though does it? There is no specified gearbox oil change for the MK1 Fabia VRS? Or have I missed it?

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Correct, the service book says nothing about a transmission fluid change.  VW et al expect you to throw the car away at 160,000km.  

 

It's no different from the Automatics in the MkIV Golf that were "sealed for life" and after the failure rate rose, VW started recommending a fluid change at 60,000km.  Then the customers complained about the extra service costs, so they dropped it off the service schedule & made it a "dealer recommendation".  The service schedule is determined around the needs of fleet owners & businesses that turnover their vehicles every 3-4 years and are after a minimal Total Cost of Ownership with no concern about what happens after they sell the car.

 

If the manual box has lifetime fluid then why does it have a drain/refill plug as this isn't needed in an overhaul (you can fill it on the bench).

 

If a ZF gearbox has lifetime fluid (according to BMW) then why does ZF sell service kits with a fluid branded "LifeGuard"?

 

As I said, if you don't intend keeping the car for an extended period then don't bother changing the fluid.  It will gradually deteriorate though.

 

I guess you could always do Used Oil Analysis on it but for the cost of the UOA you can simply change the oil.

It's very easy to do,and gives you peace of mind

The box was definitely overfilled by the garage who performed the oil change... Kind of answered my original question I guess - I had no problems since it was done (about 6 months ago). Now i can rest assured knowing the correct level is there with the supplement in also :-)

 

 

I have now ran the car with the supplement and the correct fluid amount in for a good motorway blast and town driving. The bearing noise has quietened and the whine I get from the box has reduced too. The Archoil supplement doesn't claim to fix mechanical problems but reduce wear and operating temperature. Like I said, I did this to try and extend the life of the box, as they are expensive... I am now going to run the box until it fails, at which point Greenflag will pick me up and take me to my local garage, where I will then get it replaced. Could be in 2 days, 2 months or 2 years, at least I have made an effort to prolong it's life! 

 

I don't get why people get their backs up about preventative maintenance? Are they scared of getting their hands dirty and learning how stuff works/ how to perform mechanical related jobs?

 

Thanks for your input everone :-)  

In most of the cases, refurbishing an old gearbox might be more expensive than just buying an used one, but after all it is your car and it is exactly how you're keeping it. IMHO, it takes at least 10-15 hours to get it out of the car, have it stripped, replace the bearings, synchro links and whatever it might be needed and then put it back in (don't forget about the clutch if you're already working there). If you preffer rebuilding it, you'll never going to quick shift into 2nd, 3rd etc ever.

 

ontopic: transmission issues are pretty severe, it's not like as you'd have a blown bulb or a flat tire. If you are driving it around town, meh...then it's ok..just hope it doesn't let you down at rush hour in a crowded intersection :peek: (I think this is my worst nightmare) and never get it for a long trip. A temporary fix shouldn't be done for more than a couple of days .. weeks..this is why it's called temporary.

If the manual box has lifetime fluid then why does it have a drain/refill plug as this isn't needed in an overhaul (you can fill it on the bench).

 

If a ZF gearbox has lifetime fluid (according to BMW) then why does ZF sell service kits with a fluid branded "LifeGuard"?

 

The reason for the drain/refill plugs is so that if the gearbox springs a leak at any of the major oil seals (input shaft, diff etc.) then the seals can be easily replaced and the box refilled without removing it.

 

Every dealer will sell the fluid in the event that a gearbox has leaked and requires refilling to the correct level. It's expensive because it's excellent oil.

 

Also your point about ATF is totally irrelevant to manual boxes because ATF is pumped and filtered, acts as a viscous shear medium, as a hydraulic oil as well as being expected to splash lubricate the bearings and gears. A manual box only needs splash lubrication which is why the correct level is so important.

 

What are you, some kind of conspiracy nut?

 

I don't get why people get their backs up about preventative maintenance? Are they scared of getting their hands dirty and learning how stuff works/ how to perform mechanical related jobs?

 

Be serious, I've worked for numerous racing engine manufacturers and actually know what I'm talking about.

 

I've seen some pretty spectacularly expensive failures and NONE of them were caused by not putting the correct SNAKE OIL in during routine maintenance.

 

An old trade trick to quieten a whining diff or gearbox was to put tractor oil in, it was like TREACLE and even the noisiest diff or gearbox would quieten to the point where you couldn't hear it, however this was done just to sell it because they knew the diff would still fail because the bearings were wearing and no amount of sticky gunge would ever stop that.

 

Additives sell because boys love their cars, additive manufacturers know this and profit wildly from it, they are like girly cosmetics with all kinds of silly pseudo-scientific names and claims, most of them do no harm but they don't do any good either, they're a PLACEBO.

 

I can categorically tell you that manual gearbox oil does not degrade like engine oil, ATF or brake fluid, it's fully synthetic, it's not hygroscopic and will last the entire life of the drivetrain if it is maintained at the correct level. Because it isn't pumped, any metal debris settles to the bottom of the box where it remains in perpetuity doing no harm. Occasionally gearbox oil will turn black and smell horrible, this is due to Sulphide formation where components of the gearbox oil additive pack react with the copper in brass or bronze bushings, it's unpleasant but utterly harmless to your gearbox.

 

Changing your manual gearbox oil will do no harm as long as you use the manufacturer recommended specification, it's just TOTALLY unnecessary and a complete waste of your time and money.

The reason for the drain/refill plugs is so that if the gearbox springs a leak at any of the major oil seals (input shaft, diff etc.) then the seals can be easily replaced and the box refilled without removing it.

 

Every dealer will sell the fluid in the event that a gearbox has leaked and requires refilling to the correct level. It's expensive because it's excellent oil.

 

Also your point about ATF is totally irrelevant to manual boxes because ATF is pumped and filtered, acts as a viscous shear medium, as a hydraulic oil as well as being expected to splash lubricate the bearings and gears. A manual box only needs splash lubrication which is why the correct level is so important.

 

What are you, some kind of conspiracy nut?

 

 

Be serious, I've worked for numerous racing engine manufacturers and actually know what I'm talking about.

 

I've seen some pretty spectacularly expensive failures and NONE of them were caused by not putting the correct SNAKE OIL in during routine maintenance.

 

An old trade trick to quieten a whining diff or gearbox was to put tractor oil in, it was like TREACLE and even the noisiest diff or gearbox would quieten to the point where you couldn't hear it, however this was done just to sell it because they knew the diff would still fail because the bearings were wearing and no amount of sticky gunge would ever stop that.

 

Additives sell because boys love their cars, additive manufacturers know this and profit wildly from it, they are like girly cosmetics with all kinds of silly pseudo-scientific names and claims, most of them do no harm but they don't do any good either, they're a PLACEBO.

 

I can categorically tell you that manual gearbox oil does not degrade like engine oil, ATF or brake fluid, it's fully synthetic, it's not hygroscopic and will last the entire life of the drivetrain if it is maintained at the correct level. Because it isn't pumped, any metal debris settles to the bottom of the box where it remains in perpetuity doing no harm. Occasionally gearbox oil will turn black and smell horrible, this is due to Sulphide formation where components of the gearbox oil additive pack react with the copper in brass or bronze bushings, it's unpleasant but utterly harmless to your gearbox.

 

Changing your manual gearbox oil will do no harm as long as you use the manufacturer recommended specification, it's just TOTALLY unnecessary and a complete waste of your time and money.

 

Well if you have worked in the industry then your comments are fair i guess. I agree about the placebo/ marketing thing for most things to do with cars and 'boys with their toys'.

 

Your point about the 'trade trick' is interesting but irrelevant for my application however, as the Archoil stuff is NOT sludge to mask a problem. It is a special and patented friction modifier, which (as far as I can see and as they claim) is the only oil additive which has Boron at the Nano scale, which is an extremely slippery substance with a coefficient of friction of 0.37. The additive therefore reduces wear and reduces operational heat build up - how much I can not quantify obviously...

 

I repeat, I have added this oil to try and prevent any further wear/damage. The bearing noise dampening down a bit because of this stuff in my eyes indicates that it is better lubricated now, not just absorbed by thicker oil. In fact, the viscosity of the additive is MUCH thinner than the actual gearbox oil.  

 

 

Nobody has said that changing the oil will prevent catastrophic failure.  

In most of the cases, refurbishing an old gearbox might be more expensive than just buying an used one, but after all it is your car and it is exactly how you're keeping it. IMHO, it takes at least 10-15 hours to get it out of the car, have it stripped, replace the bearings, synchro links and whatever it might be needed and then put it back in (don't forget about the clutch if you're already working there). If you preffer rebuilding it, you'll never going to quick shift into 2nd, 3rd etc ever.

 

ontopic: transmission issues are pretty severe, it's not like as you'd have a blown bulb or a flat tire. If you are driving it around town, meh...then it's ok..just hope it doesn't let you down at rush hour in a crowded intersection :peek: (I think this is my worst nightmare) and never get it for a long trip. A temporary fix shouldn't be done for more than a couple of days .. weeks..this is why it's called temporary.

 

 

Just phoned round a few transmission specialists in Leeds. Looking at £600 for box out, complete overhaul/ refurbish, back in with a new clutch, inclusive of VAT. Didn't think that was too bad tbh.

 

Could get a second hand box, they vary massively in condition/ price it would seem though. Some are around the £100-£200 mark, but ones with lower milage etc are c.£400. When you put labour on top of that and a clutch its the same price as having the current box completely overhauled. In this scenario it would make sense to have mine reconditioned as It would have fresh internals etc.