Felicia 1.3 Cylinder Head Corrosion Around Coolant Ways

[KenONeill]

OK update:  Reconnected the battery and tried again after an hour, this time it started fine and so I let it idle until the fan cut in.  The idle speed hunted a little bit once it was up to temperature, I will take it for a test drive later tonight and see if it keeps this behaviour.  Could be that I didn't leave quite enough slack in the throttle cable, as suggested earlier.  

If the smoke has cleared, then you're right; it was contamination burning off something, probably the exhaust manifold.

 

As to your hunting, try backing off the throttle cable tension until you get enough free play to see it, literally 2mm or 1/16 inch will be enough.

[areed]

Took the car for a test drive this evening, idle speed and throttle seemed to behave so I think it is OK without a reset. 

 

The good news is you have the engine running after a blown head gasket. That is huge for a DIYer.

 

It seems to be running, but I will admit to lacking confidence in the repair a bit.  The coolant level dropped during the test drive, though I can't see any hose leaks, which has me distinctly concerned.  I will see how it fares after a long journey tomorrow, and let you guys know.  Thank you so much for all the help so far though, I am sure I wouldn't have got even this far had I not found this forum!

Edited 18 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

Rest assured, it's nothing wrong with coolant drop after a refill. It can drop from MAX to MIN. The coolant temperature gauge could indicate 95C stable and fan could kick in at 100C and cut out at 95. Looks weird, I know, but all is from the air trapped in the system. It will burp out after up to 5-10 cycles while driving. Relax.

[areed]

all is from the air trapped in the system. It will burp out after up to 5-10 cycles while driving. 

 

Thats reassuring, thanks!  I'll keep topping it up to max for now then.  I think my fan motor may need replacing, as it was making a bit of a squealing noise when it came on tonight.  Will have to look into getting one after Christmas.

Edited 19 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

I think my fan motor may need replacing, as it was making a bit of a squealing noise when it came on tonight.  Will have to look into getting one after Christmas.

It doesn't need replacing. It needs repairing, or better said, it needs oiling. Unless you have too much money...

[areed]

It doesn't need replacing. It needs repairing, or better said, it needs oiling.

 

Ah excellent! I assumed that the motor was an all-in-one thing. I'll take a look when I'm home tomorrow and see what I can do.

Edited 19 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

If you get stuck, you know the drill. Take a photo.

Have WD40 handy.

Edited 19 December, 2015 by RicardoM

[areed]

Sorry for being slow to update, but the good news is it looks like the repair was successful! Drove home (130ish miles) this weekend with no troubles

 

I have flushed out the cooling system, and changed the oil/filter again as recommended.  Removing the radiator fan requires taking out the radiator, and there is no access to it for lubrication in-place.  The fan doesn't get used often as I don't do much driving in traffic, but I will keep an eye on it and look into disassembling it/replacing it if necessary.  

 

There are just two questions I have left:

 

1.  When starting the car from cold, if you stop the engine within a minute or two it will not start again for an hour or so.  This happened when I first tried it after the repairs, as explained above.  However it also occurred when I was flushing the coolant (had to stop it because I forgot to plug something in) after driving home.  Is this a standard behaviour of the car?

 

2.  Is there anything else I should keep an eye on, for maintaining the car in future?  I have the Owners/Haynes manual lists of things to do, and when the weather warms up I will deal with any rust under the car, but I don't know what to do beyond that.

 

Thanks once again for all of the help, so glad I managed to succeed in time for Christmas!

[Breezy_Pete]

Good news mate, well done.

 

1. Doesn't sound right at all.  I will defer to Ricardo or others for best info on what might be wrong (including me!).

[KenONeill]

1) Definitely not right, and Ricardo will moan about a lack of sufficient specificity here, but the problem sounds like the cold start enrichment is switching off too soon, and refusing ro re-engage until the engine is utterly cold.

[areed]

 lack of sufficient specificity here

 

More detail:

 

Both times, the engine was started and left idling for no more than 5 minutes or so, before being switched off at the ignition.  I then tried to restart it a few minutes later.  The engine would either not start at all, or just barely tick over so slowly that it was on the point of stalling.  

 

The first time this happened, I disconnected the battery and left the car for an hour.  It then started successfully when the battery was reattached.  

 

The second time, I tried the car after 15 minutes, 30 minutes and an hour.  When it finally started, it initially ran very slowly (but not quite as badly as I'd seen before) but then sped back up to the correct idle speed.  

 

I think my dad has the correct cable to connect to the ECU (he used it with a W reg. Ford Galaxy), if this might help then I'll ask him to look it out and check for any fault codes.

Edited 23 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

1) The correct thing is to find evidence of malfunction first. Hook up an OBD scanner and look for error codes and (more importantly) live data. The variable of interest is the coolant temperature. From my experience, I'd be looking for a faulty coolant temperature sensor or a dirty / faulty MAP sensor (or cpmbined air temp. / pressure  sensor as it's called on Felicia) mounted behind throttle body on the intake manifold. Alternatively, there are test procedures for each of those two sensors in the service manual I sent you.

 

2) Keep an eye on coolant level, coolant temperature, oil level, and any leaks. For the latter I recommend cleaning the engine bay of any prior traces of oil and dirt. Every now and then I clean the engine bay (insisting on engine block) because I like seeing a clean engine when I open the bonnet. It is a very rewarding job in terms of both maintenance and esthetics.

 

Ref. to radiator fan: think this way, water creeped in through the seams of the housing and reached the inner bushings. Similarly you can spray WD40 on the seams to penetrate and eventually displace the rust inside. WD40 is not conductive, so don't worry. After you verified the noise is gone, smear a thin layer of grease on all seams for protection.

Edited 24 December, 2015 by RicardoM

[areed]

hook up an OBD scanner and look for error codes 

 

Read the fault-codes this afternoon, got the following output:

 

 

 

Thursday, 24 December 2015, 13:26:34

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S

Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 N

Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P 7014

Software Coding: 00000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

8 Faults Found:

00513 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28)

             27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

00525 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

             05-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00524 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

             37-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

01247 - Activated Charcoal Filter (EVAP) System Solenoid Valve 1 (N80)

             26-10 - Output Open - Intermittent

00525 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

             28-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00525 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

             07-10 - Please Register/Activate - Intermittent

00522 - Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor (G62)

             30-10 - Open or Short to B+ - Intermittent

00537 - Shareware Version. To Decode all DTCs

             18-00 - Please Register/Activate

 

 

I have no idea when the memory was last checked/cleared, so these may be old faults. In addition, I can't find two of these codes (00513, 00524) in the manual.  We cleared the memory and restarted the car, and no new fault codes were generated.  I will check it again after I next drive the car.

Edited 24 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

Intermittent codes means they were detected at some point, but they don't exist at the time of the scan or the last time the ECU could check for that fault condition. The intermittent codes will self erase after X driving cycles depending on the fault.

 

Most permanent fault codes are generated after minimum 2 driving cycles. Some serious faults log as permernant from the first occurrence of the fault.

 

The table of fault codes is in the manual I sent you (Simos 2P Fuel Injection & Ignition System) page 7 to 11. Some fault codes may have been generated during repairs if some connectors have been unplugged.

 

Let's see what codes pop up after erase and we'll take it from there.

Edited 24 December, 2015 by RicardoM

[areed]

Drove the car today, and checked for fault codes when I got home. One code was found:

 

Monday, 28 December 2015, 14:17:18

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S



Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 N

Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P 7014

Software Coding: 00000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:

00525 - Oxygen Sensor (G39)

             05-10 - Input Open - Intermittent
 

 

I see that in the last fault code scan (above), there were several 00525 codes with different "sub codes" - in this most recent scan it is 05-10.  What do these numbers mean? I know that 00525 is the lambda sensor, but I can't find the sub-numbers in the manual.  Does this error tell you anything useful?

 

The table of fault codes is in the manual I sent you (Simos 2P Fuel Injection & Ignition System) page 7 to 11.

 

I couldn't find two of the earlier codes (00513, 00524) in the manual, do you know what these mean?

 

I have cleared the fault code, and will check again next time I drive to see if anything new turns up.

Edited 28 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

00513 - Engine Speed (Hall) Sensor (G28)

27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

G28 faulty, or gap too small / too high

 

00524 - Knock Sensor (G61)

37-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

G61 faulty, loose connection, or incorrect fastening torque

 

The 'sub-numbers' are so-called P-codes, or generic OBD-II codes. Nothing useful in Felicia case.

 

Sometimes chasing intermittent codes is a pain. Often case the codes are thrown simply because electrical connectors are disconnected during repairs. Car workshop prefer to wait till a persistent code is generated instead of chasing red herrings.

What you can do for now is to make sure the wiring is good and electrical connectors are corrosion free.

[felicia16v]

If you fitted a yellow temp sensor that's your hot start fault.

Next time it doesn't start disconnect it and see it it starts then.

Yellow is the early diesel sensor.

[RicardoM]

Yellow is the early diesel sensor.

Yellow collar coolant sensors are also used on all 1.3l engines without A/C.

[areed]

Thanks for the replies guys, once again very helpful!  I've done 4 more journeys since I last cleared the fault codes, scanned today and the same intermittent fault has occurred again:

 

Wednesday, 30 December 2015, 11:01:50

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S



Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 N

Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P 7014

Software Coding: 00000

Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

1 Fault Found:

00525 - Oxygen Sensor (G39)

             05-10 - Input Open - Intermittent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I did check that the sensor was correctly plugged in, and that the wire was not obviously broken.  From reading the manual, I think I can test the probe voltage to see if it is within specification.  Not sure quite how to test the leads, as in the manual they use what looks like some kind of VAG breakout board on the wiring loom which I don't have.  Any advice there?

 

While checking for leaks, I also spotted the following:

Slight leak around this sensor fitting in the radiator, which I believe is the temperature switch for the fan.

 

 

The visible surface of the sump gasket now looks a bit damp all around.  I did make sure that the bolts were correctly torqued all around when I fitted it, should I check them again or is this normal?  The gasket is made of cork I think, so I could understand it absorbing a bit of liquid.

 

 

I visited a local breakers yard a few days ago for some parts (mainly an accelerator cable, as the adjuster on mine is broken), and found a 1.3 MPI Felicia with only 60k miles on it.  Interestingly, I found that the thermostat on the car was the clippy type, and had failed as you showed in pictures earlier Ricardo.  I took the radiator from this car, as it was in much better condition than mine.  I will replace mine during the new year, which should fix the noisy fan and leaky sensor fitting.  Swapping the whole rad will also deal with the fact that the bottom of my rad no longer appears to be attached to the rest of it properly(!), due to rust.  The replacement does have some rust, but I will take this off and coat it with high temperature paint (not the rad fins, just the metal edge and the fan mount) before I fit it.  

 

Something else I found in the car and couldn't resist taking:

 

Looks like some kind of official Felicia keyring

Edited 30 December, 2015 by areed

[areed]

Extra question:  Is it possible to change the rubber door seals, and if so, how?

[RicardoM]

Lambda sensor error code: for now the most important thing you could do is to check if the voltage fluctuates between 0 and 1 V when the engine is warm.

 

 

The oil sump gasket: you could try retorque the screws, but the gasket will still be a bit damp. Relax.

 

Rubber door seals: remove by pulling on them all around by hand.

[Breezy_Pete]

Try gently tightening the radiator thermoswitch, to fix that leak. I think you'll find - if you have a suitable spanner or deep socket - that a 30 or 45 degree tighten is achievable without much force, and this should stop it leaking. I've had to do this on both our Fabia and Polo this year, both successfully eliminating the leak. Also be careful not to damage that cable that runs near the thermoswitch, if you decide to try tightening it.

[RicardoM]

The radiator is very fragile if it is old and rusty. The book says to torque the switch at 42 Nm... so you have to be gentle indeed as Wino said. One more word of caution: careful not to short the alternator voltage regulator to ground if you are using a deep socket. Even better, remove battery negative cable before anything.

[areed]

Thanks again for the helpful replies guys!  I will try gently tightening the sensor fitting tomorrow.  After a couple of journeys today, the car struggled to start this afternoon.  It was just barely turning over by itself, then returned to normal idle speed after I touched the accelerator.  Unlike before, the car was warm (but not fully up to temperature, as it had been sitting for a while after the last journey).  Scanning the fault codes gave the following:

 

Thursday, 31 December 2015, 14:13:40.

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2

Control Module Part Number: 047 906 030 N

  Component and/or Version: SIMOS 2P           7014

           Software Coding: 00000

            Work Shop Code: WSC 00000

                      VCID: 1B49546F9ABD

1 Fault Found:

00525 -  Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor (G39)

        05-00 -  Input Open

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

It's the Lambda sensor again, but this time not an intermittent fault.  I will try measuring the sensor voltage tomorrow, to see if I can get any more info. 

Edited 31 December, 2015 by areed

[RicardoM]

As I said earlier, a permanent error code is easier to deal with. The code says the oxygen sensor is open circuit. The most probable place for the wiring  to break is shown below. But check the entire cable and connector. If the cable is OK... you need a new sensor. In that case, lots of WD40 and a special socket will make the removal easier.