Non starting but electrics all on

[vRSAnt]

Had no start moment today for my return journey, left the car and came back to it and it started !!

 

It was as if doing nothing at all when turning key to right. Not noise, nothing !

 

I was thinking maybe immo ?

Did a scan and no new errors and read 12.4v battery

 

Tried 2 or 3 times since and started each time. Starter perhaps ?

[Breezy_Pete]

Starter solenoid wire almost broken, but not quite. I reckon.

[vRSAnt]

Thanks for that heads up

 

By the way is that different from the alternator load wire, common fault of being too short ?

 

I did solder that back up myself many many years ago, it did come to mind, although that usually showed up with the alternator thingy after about 10 mins of driving if I recall

Edited 7 January, 2016 by vRSAnt

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep. Different wire. Pic coming up...

I think on your car this is more or less right underneath the battery, the wire with the arrow pointing at it, going onto the back end of the starter, solenoid part. Usually breaks at the point where it does that right angle turn into the connector housing, sometimes insulation cracks and wire inside corrodes, copper strands snap one by one.  When there are only a few good ones left, it can produce these intermittent no-starts.

If you can get a hand to it, give it a gentle pull and don't be surprised if it breaks away completely.

 

Edited 7 January, 2016 by Wino

[vRSAnt]

Aha good to know. So not preventing the car from charging like that, but actually preventing it from starting in first place !

 

Might line it up for a weekend job then ! Wish I knew about this when it wasn't that long ago I did a gearbox oil change

 

Probably more than 6 mths ago but barely feels like 5 mins I recall having to strip that lot down...might be worth anyone doing a gearbox oil change to bear that in mind kill 2 jobs in one !

[vRSAnt]

Just to say I got it down to that area, but doesn't seem to be broken yet ? Also doesn't seem quite same as my car TBH havent uploaded pics yet

Daren't risk pulling away at the connector to check it further, as there isn't any suggestion its problem yet

 

What I have done though is clean off the - on the batt and its properly secured now as it was a bit loose. Not sure what difference that makes but its still starting for now

Edited 9 January, 2016 by vRSAnt

[vRSAnt]

Happened again today

 

Waited again, about a minute or so (we were at supermarket) and it reluctantly started. Thinking about it, it was a bit of a reluctant start to begin with which should have got me worried about using it.

 

Read the battery later ( Exide, a few years old or three) and its ready 12.31V

Not sure if this is a bit low for a working battery ? ( I think given low temperature the expected voltage of a good/new battery should be about 12.5V ish ).

Currently got it on my M/C trickle charger anyway.

Edited 17 January, 2016 by vRSAnt

[wiredsoftware]

Seems a bit low. For comparison I was doing some work behind my dashboard today and read 12.92V from a feed wire there, using a chassis bolt as the neg, so probably higher directly on the battery.

[poiuytre111]

Seems a bit low. For comparison I was doing some work behind my dashboard today and read 12.92V from a feed wire there, using a chassis bolt as the neg, so probably higher directly on the battery.

Only if you were drawing a lot of current, otherwise the readings would be the same.

[vRSAnt]

Thanks. I read somewhere on the web its typical to expect about 12.66v though ? How are you getting that high ? Is that while the car is on and charging - I think you should be testing it whilst off I think ?

(Well you can check that but I'd check both, you can also check its resting charge after some charging which is what I plan to do also).

 

May well be lack of use slightly, as I'm tending to only use the car just over half as much as before (plus only drive each way 12 mi or so to work so doesn't get a longer charge).

 

Thanks, won't rule out battery needed again unfortunately, will try this charge first though just in case it needs a bit of help with the cold weather and lack of every day use, could probably try a longer run at weekend or something.

[coskev]

Have you removed the connector as recommended above and had a good look at the wire?

Could well be as above and the copper strands of wire are nearly broken,but not quite.

What your looking at is the insulation,which even if undamaged and looks complete can hide the issue.

[wiredsoftware]

Only if you were drawing a lot of current, otherwise the readings would be the same.

Would expect a slight drop with ignition on, and a slight loss through the wires an also any oxidisation on the bolt too? Would be surprised if I got exactly the same reading as at the battery terminals, even if it is only a 0.1V drop.

To answer the other poster, my reading was with the engine off, ignition on but nothing turned on.

Edited 17 January, 2016 by wiredsoftware

[vindaloo]

It's a PITA job but worth doing.

 

IMO it's worth running a new, longer wire to where it enters the loom. I used a 5A chock block on mine and wrapped it severely to the loom. (My previous crimp connector repair last a while but then stranded me in Sainsbury's 3 days before Christmas.

 

Connector can be dismantled and reused if you spend some time prying and soldering.

 

[vRSAnt]

Fair point. I'm not against doing a job if its needed but the electicary looks a bit annoying to me (even after having dismantled everything to get to that point) so if I'm honest I woosed out because I wasn't 100% convinced that 1) it was needed but more importantly 2) I was in a good position to repair it with the necessary stuff

 

(But that's coming from someone that originally did do my cruise retrofit - not that long after brand new purchase - in a way that wouldn't have affected warranty as I didn't cut wires lol).

 

It is extremely taught on that loom, presumably even from new, so I agree that it would be well worthwhile but the connector didn't look like it was going to snap disconnected easy.

PS Battery was reading 12.41 ( slowly rising up to this point before I gave up waiting for it to settle any more started at 12.34! )

I reckon the battery has just had it, I've probably had it for 3 years+ ( couldn't find receipt to confirm).

[hebby]

I seem to be having the same problem 

 

started this morning a bit hesitant and same most of the day come to pick the missus up and POW! no starting :( had to bump start to go pick her up. checked connections and stuff but couldn't see anything so had a mate have a look and it tried to turn over but then stopped so I'm now wondering if its this damn plug   might just go scrap yard tomorrow and chop one off and wire it up see how it goes if not reckon its a new ( scrap yard job ) starter?

[SuperbTWM]

You can't accurately gauge the battery health just on voltages without seeing what it does under load conditions. Most garages or places that sell batteries will have a tester.

[vRSAnt]

I'd check your batt first hebby, I suppose it could be starter related - but you always need a good spark, no point having a poor battery esp. in poor conditions !

 

Compared to other things its not necessarily the most expensive either so if yours isn't reading that high like mine might be worth considering.

[vRSAnt]

Choices choices

 

Tanya

 

096 Enduroline Car Battery 75Ah 700CCA

£ 59.55 inc. VATPrice

• Bosch S5008
• £ 96.52Varta E45
• £ 69.92Banner Batteries 57405
• £ 55.47Exide 096TE
• £ 55.21Exide 067TE
• £ 59.95Numax 096
• £ 71.21Duracell DA74
• £ 57.87Varta E38
• £ 59.07Varta E44
• £ 54.52Varta E11
• £ 51.99Varta E13

[SuperbTWM]

Halfords range of Calcium batteries have had good reviews and can be had at a reasonable price with a trade card, I've had a few before. 4 Year warranty

[VWD]

One other thing I've not seen /heard of for a long time, but something to look out for. if the solenoid wire ( thin one to solenoid) is OK, check the voltage drop on the solenoid ,whilst trying to start it. ( That's the voltage drop across the battery feed to the starter motor, and starter. ). Normally with starter idle ,and solenoid non operational ,this will be battery voltage ,which should drop to around .5v or less. This was the figure on older petrol cars, what it is now /or diesels I don't know.

[vRSAnt]

I wouldn't touch Halfords.

 

My dad ( and upstanding gentleman) bought one and went back to them after a year and they were moaning and ****ing about it, and he's not the one to hold back the pennies either.

 

I've had enough bad experiences of them (including service work) to not want much to do with them, unless they have really cheap wipers or something lol

[Breezy_Pete]

12.4V isn't too worrying TBH. 12.92 is just weird, must be just after switching off engine, or a dodgy multimeter.

 

See if you can find a spare plug in a scrappie or ebay, dismantle it as per Vindaloo's pic, solder in a nice thick, long wire, and connect it into the original wire.

 

May not be the problem, but will avoid that almost inevitable future problem and rule it out at the same time.

 

I've got a de-pinning tool; so if you struggle to get the connector apart, gimme a shout.

[vRSAnt]

Cool, if it is that then I hope it lasts a bit better until warmer weather, sorry to be a girl but messing about with lectrics in cold/snow ain't my idea of fun !

Like your idea of the spare though, that does inspire better confidence although I'd still love to know exactly how the connector snaps out, I guess looking at a spare can help.

 

Wouldn't have been so bad if I had any idea how to remove said connector but I wasn't going to force it and it was under enough tension as is. I had the brummy saying in the back of my mind to be honest and just conscious of making it worse (although to some degree I get your thinking, making it worse might be making it better in the long run lol)

 

We'll see ! It oddly satisfying to know I'm not alone with this somehow lol.

[SuperbTWM]

I wouldn't touch Halfords.

 

My dad ( and upstanding gentleman) bought one and went back to them after a year and they were moaning and ****ing about it, and he's not the one to hold back the pennies either.

 

I've had enough bad experiences of them (including service work) to not want much to do with them, unless they have really cheap wipers or something lol

I wouldn't let them change a bulb for me let alone do service work and they don't sell much that's any good but their tools are brilliant value and very good quality for a DIY mechanic and I always get batteries from them ( I think they were reviewed once in car mechanics magazine and performed well against Bosch and other makes)

 

I once had a fault that discharged my battery a few times which ruined it. Without no receipt for a 2 year old battery they tested and changed it for me no bother.

[vRSAnt]

Fair enough, good service in your case then. I agree about tools TBF, been bought plenty of tools from them that for the most part have been pretty good.

 

I've not heard anything about their battery quality, just my own dads report. To be fair I don't think he'd really used in a year, in which case you can't really blame the battery for failing, but a warranty is a warranty and in their case they should have honoured it anyway.