Hi all.

 

I've got a strange problem with 2008 2.0  petrol vrs

 

When I accelerate in any gear hard, the revs will jump up by about 1-2k without any speed increase and after a split second will drop down and pick up inline with acceleration.

 

I am pretty sure it is not the clutch slipping because I've done the hill test (accelerate uphill) and the speed increases fine and in-line with revs, apart from this initial high revs thing.

 

I've heard something about a clutch switch and from the VW forums found a guide, however, I took the foot well dash apart and cant find a switch.

 

Does anyone know where the switch is on the vrs mk 2?

 

Thanks

 

Dual Mass Flywheel?

 

Any juddering?

No juddering that I can think of

 

Would it be juddering under heavy load or on idle?

In my case terrible vibration could  be felt when I accelerated hard. On idle it was fine.

So what makes this different to a normal clutch problem?

 

I an not sure how the dual mass one works

Is there a way to test the dual mass clutch being at fault?

That sounds like clutch slip to me.

 

If the revs are rising when accelerating hard without an increase in speed, it's the clutch slipping.

 

Edited 18 January, 201610 yr by softscoop

mine is slipping atm. Stage 1 map not agreeing with oem clutch.

 

Gentle throttle is fine, put your foot down with any form of agression and it slipps. Sounds similar to yours

You should easily be able to rule out the DMF, low speed/RPM and a high gear will put it under load. If it judders then all is not well.

 

However I'm guessing this test may also expose any weaknesses in the clutch too...

Nothing like that video Softscoop.

 

The revs literally jump for a split second and then all back to normal.

 

I'll try and get a video later to show what I mean.

 

 

I also have a stage 1 ryan.

 

I'll check for judder, trouble is it usually spins up on load (crap tyres) so hard to judge

Will post a video tonight.

That video shows clutch slip pretty bad.

 

It will start of as you describe and get worse.

people said a stage 1 would be fine on an oem clutch but my stage one ended up rolling roading at 223bhp and 360ft/lb. Its certainly too much for an oem clutch.

 

What kinda miles is the car on? If its quite high and you dont know the history of the car i'd recomend a new dmf and uprated clutch.

 

I thought my dmf was ok but changed it anyway last year. It had loads of play and moved near on 1/4 turn before the spring kicked in! One year and about 12k later the clutch is already slipping

It doesn't matter if its the clutch or the flywheel, if both are original items it makes sense to change them both

 

It happens right at the start. revs jump to about 4k then back down to 3.5.

 

If you watch then speedo though the speed is a continuous increase.

Also on the 2nd bit of the video exactly the same revs/gears and speed, yet the revs don't jump up as at the start of the video.

 

Ignore the EML, - its the reoccurring P0440 expansions gas code thing.

Edited 18 January, 201610 yr by cav-mad-gav

The car is at 85k, do not think the clutch or DMF has been done historically to be honest.

You've got a bulb out too 

 

If the car is a keeper then it might be worthwhile investing in a new DMF and clutch.

 

Darkside have been mentioned on here quite a bit over the years...

 

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/sachs-2-0-tdi-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel-and-clutch-kit.html

 

Or an upgraded system...

 

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/products/sachs-2-0-tdi-6-speed-02q-dual-mass-flywheel-with-sachs-sre-performance-clutch-kit-for-ppd170-cr170.html

I had a DMF and clutch fitted by Darkside to my old Passat and they made a good job.

They made a balls of the tandem pump gasket and coolant flange at the back of the engine though, they managed to fully link the oil cooler hose and if I hadn't of checked their work It could of caused me all sorts of issues

Correct me if I am wrong but from researching the DMF failure seems to apply to diesels only?

Correct me if I am wrong but from researching the DMF failure seems to apply to diesels only?

Not necessarily. Mostly it's related to diesels (I guess it's because of high torque and power delivery that's not as smooth as in petrols) but sometimes it happens to petrol cars as well.

Just resurrecting this thread.  I have a 2008 1.9Tdi PD Octavia estate.  The clutch was changed for a SMF about 30,000m ago, and the car's been driven pretty sedately over that time.  Gears 1, 2 and 3, acceleration is fine, even in G3 giving it a good old boot.  Also, car stalls immediately in G3 when trying to start off.  It's G4 and G5 which is perplexing me as the revs increase a little on booting it uphill then immediately settle down with the car going at a fair old rate of knots.  For example, uphill on our bypass, booting it in fourth sees the revs rise for a second, settles down, and the car's doing 75mph - same happens in fifth.  Never noticed this at all with the old DMF setup.

 

It would seem odd that, because the clutch is good in all other respects (no juddering, light pedal, no noises or bad gear changes, etc), that it should 'slip' just in these gears when accelerating fairly hard.  I've heard about a clutch torque limiter (do these fail?) and other safety devices that protect the drivetrain from damage on heavy acceleration.  Another thing is that, on occasions, I've pulled a fairly heavy trailer and experienced no issues at all.

 

I'm asking this stuff as the car's due a 60,000m/7 year timing belt change.  I don't want to spend £345 on a new kit and waterpump if I have to replace the clutch so soon.  I'd rather call time on this motor and buy another if that's the case.

 

Car is on 167,000m and the original DMF covered 137,000m

 

Thanks in advance.

5 hours ago, beezera10 said:

It's G4 and G5 which is perplexing me as the revs increase a little on booting it uphill then immediately settle down with the car going at a fair old rate of knots.

 The clutch sees a higher torque in this situation so this is where you will see early signs of a worn clutch.

 

A check you can to do to verify a slipping clutch is, when going up hill at high torque, maintaining the same throttle setting, press lightly on the clutch pedal until th revs start to rise then release the pedal and see how long it takes for the revs to drop. With a good clutch it will be instaneous.

 

Does this occur during upshifts to the higher gears or does it also happen when already in the gear and then accelerating?

 

For the latter the clutch is slipping and needs replacement.

 

For the former then its a "characteristic" of the clutch peak torque limiter when making swift gearchanges using full throttle as soon as the clutch is released, VAG would rather you burn out the clutch than damage the transmission.

Thanks guys.

 

Unfortunately, it does it in gear while accelerating hard, which suggests the clutch is tired after only 30,000m (very disappointing).

 

I'll try Pikpilot's suggestion too, could be worth it along with the other tests I've done.

 

When I had the conversion done to SMF, I asked which make it was to which he replied (a little vaguely) Sachs, which I knew were decent.  When I came to collect the car, it was a Teckmarx, which I'd never heard of before.  I wasn't happy, but he said it had a 3 year, 30,000m guarantee.  I'm a little under that, so I may go back to see about a new clutch.  Apparently, when investigating, Teckmarx clutches are made in the same factory as Blueprint and Borg & Beck.  I paid £576 for a complete conversion - seems expensive now if I need another clutch!

Quick update!

 

Got the timing belt/water pump fitted for £345 all in (INA kit).

 

Decided to junk the ****ty Teckmarx SMF in favour of a return to the stock Sachs DMF setup.  After getting a couple of quotes for £1100 and £990 respectively, I asked the garage that fitted the belt what they'd charge for fitting the Sachs kit - £550 all in!!!  Booked it in straightaway!!!  I've also asked them to look for issues with the SMF clutch as they take it apart and to take pictures of any major issues they find.  As the Teckmarx is still within its warranty, I'm hoping to recoup something as there's no way it should be failing in 28,000 miles with the way we drive it.   The car is completely stock, by the way.

 

Anyone else found a better price for fitting than these.  Before you ask, they return all the bits they take off to the customer in the box that the new stuff comes in.  The only way I reckon I could be ripped off is if they're putting inferior parts on the car and giving the old bits back in a spare, quality parts, box - or am I being too cynical?

 

So, it looks like I've been charged more for the SMF conversion than changing back to the original setup.  With the original DMF giving 139,000m, I'm guessing I'll be a few hundred quid down the drain unless I get some joy from the warranty.

 

Ah well, I suppose these things happen once in a while - b&*^%*ds😡😡😡

 

 

Quick update.  I had the Sachs DMF kit fitted today (Pt. No. 2290 602 004 Clutch Kit | ZMS Modul XTend) with a gearbox oil change.  Very smooth drive back and still a very light pedal.  Won't be testing the take off in the higher gears for a few hundred miles just to settle it in a little.  £550 all in.

 

The flywheel they gave me back had FA0015-76-A stamped on the rim.  This corresponds to a 'trade' DMF to SMF conversion kit.  If you go for a conversion, make sure you insist on a quality kit, get it in writing (unless you totally trust the garage), and ask for all the bits back including the packaging for the replacement.  Avoid anything Teckmarx as they are ****!

 

Once they've put it on, you're pretty much stuffed.  I even checked things out before paying this time round.

 

You live and learn - unfortunately, on this occasion, it's cost me around £400 more than it should have.😡😡😡😡😒😒