'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

[lol-lol]

And now Japan warns on trading outside the EU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36215146

Isn't that 4 or 5 of our international trading partners now?

 

Hold the front page.

 

Of course.

 

We can kiss goodbye to any more large scale investment of Honda, Nissan-Renault or Toyota if we leave the EU and, as we have seen, we have Jaguar Land Rover planning to move some production ie Defender to Slovakia and BMW-Mini to biuld more of their cars in Holland and Austria at the plants they have recently set up toll manufacturing with.

 

Quelle surprise ! 

[Clunkclick]

MP for Kettering's address on Immigration  (In  Westminster Hall ) yesterday had some horrifying statistics:-

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcparliament?rewindTo=current

 

(Relevant bit starts at 17:05)

 

Immigration Minister, Brokenshire, was present in the committee and responded and didn't question anything substantial that was said.

 

In Summary.

 

The vote next month is the last opportunity the current citizens of the UK will have to keep control of their country. A vote to remain means chaos long-term with future UK governments being increasingly unable to control aspects of domestic policy, i.e. Housing, education, welfare, pensions.

 

The current Home Office Statistics on Immigration are a lie - witness the discrepancy with the number of new National Insurance numbers that have been issued to EU immigrants -  over double the official immigration stats. Oh yeah, after a lot of stonewalling by the Home Office, following FOI requests, immigration statistcs have  now been released so that the Office of National Statistics can do a reconciliation with the National Insurance Statistis - outcome to be reported on MAY 26th. WATCH THIS SPACE !

 

That population projections show, ignoring any possible effect of Turkish accession to the EU, that on the Home Office's current immigration figures (Lies, you remember) that the UK population will be 78 million by 2039.( You can probably add another 7 -10 million to the projected figure if you use actual immigration stats)

 

That UK will become an increasingly lawless country as the proportion of organised criminals from Turkey, Albania etc settle here as EU migrants. Apparently, 75% of the brothels in the UK are now controlled by Albanians, including soho, London, where they have forceibly displaced the previous encumbents. That must be a worry for MPS, if not a potential National Security issue.

 

That within 5 years the 1 million Syrian asylum seekers admitted to Germany will be entitled apply for  German Passports and the freedopm of movement associated with that.

 

And again, very worrying for youngsters, blatant discrimination against the native population in  job adverts placed via a Government scheme for builders/decorators stipulating that candidates must speak at least one eastern European language.

 

Absolutely, horrific.

 

And not a millibean of denial coming from the Immigration Minister.

 

Nick

Edited 6 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Hold the front page.

 

Of course.

 

We can kiss goodbye to any more large scale investment of Honda, Nissan-Renault or Toyota if we leave the EU and, as we have seen, we have Jaguar Land Rover planning to move some production ie Defender to Slovakia and BMW-Mini to biuld more of their cars in Holland and Austria at the plants they have recently set up toll manufacturing with.

 

Quelle surprise ! 

That's going to happen anyway, whether we stay or leave. Is that a good enough reason for staying and trashing the quality of life in this country as well as our cultural heritage ?

 

Nick

Edited 6 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[lol-lol]

That's going to happen anyway, whether we stay or leave. Is that a good enough reason for staying and trashing the quality of life in this country as well as our cultural heritage ?

Nick

 

The predictions of the most intelligent people on the planet, such as my Big 4 consultancy firm, project falls in our exchange rates, GDP and therefore the value of our pensions and plan to retire in the best possible financial situation.

 

A third of a million immigrants will come to the UK each year whether we are in or out of the EU (Being an ex-Customs Officer/UKBF plenty of experience of frontier controls)  and the best way to be able to repatriate these immigrant is to be part of the EU/Turkish customs territory as is happening with some of the economic migrant are being now.        

Edited 6 May, 2016 by lol-lol

[gadgetman]

MP for Kettering's address on Immigration  (In  Westminster Hall ) yesterday had some horrifying statistics:-

 

Hollobone is an idiot MP.  He's local to me along with Peter Bone & Pursglove.  All only interested in their own (business) interests, which is why they're anti ECHR & pro Brexit as they'll do well from business screwing over their employees. 

 

 

A vote to remain means chaos long-term with future UK governments being increasingly unable to control aspects of domestic policy, i.e. Housing, education, welfare, pensions.

Poppycock.  Where is the proof of this?  There is none, it's nonsense from the brexit side which plays on the anger/fear of immigration

 

On the point of Turkey, Armenia etc, none are even close to joining the EU as none have met even the 3 basic requirements for membership, even though the process has started.  And even if they do, there WILL be limits on who can travel between member states and eligibility to reside in another state.

 

Of course rubbished by Boris, even though it's in EU documents.  But then again it's unlikely to happen at all - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/erdogan-turkey-not-alter-anti-terror-laws-visa-free-travel-eu

[Clunkclick]

The predictions of the most intelligent people on the planet, such as my Big 4 consultancy firm, project falls in our exchange rates, GDP and therefore the value of our pensions and plan to retire in the best possible financial situation.

 

A third of a million immigrants will come to the UK each year whether we are in or out of the EU (Being an ex-Customs Officer/UKBF plenty of experience of frontier controls)  and the best way to be able to repatriate these immigrant is to be part of the EU/Turkish customs territory as is happening with some of the economic migrant are being now.        

Keen as I am to appear intelligent, I'm not willing to accept any old guff from City types (Including Accountancy and consultancy firms) who are  amongst the group that are the prime beneficiaries from the economics of "Big markets" and mass migration of labour.

 

The MP for Kettering  did state that the EU is now considering a proposal to dispense with the rule that asylum seekers should be re-patriated to the country in the EU where they first landed. I think you'd have to be pretty niave not to expect that the moment after  the UK referendum issue is concluded in favour of staying, our continental colleagues won't be unloading some of the re-settlement "Obligations" (Publicity stunts) they have recently entered into with respect of the Syrians in the UK's direction, if only in an attempt to pacify the outright rebellion they've got on their hands domestically (Especially Germany). This has already been partially confirmed by the EU statement requesting that every  EU country should take their fair shares of the obligation unilaterally entered into by Mrs Merkel. - that's taking "Fair shares" irrespective of where the immigrants first landed or who allowed them to stay. I  shouldn't think anyone on this forum has the right to vote in the elections for Mrs Merkel or Monsieur Hollande.

 

Amazing though, when it comes to  something that disadvantages the City, such handing out Tax payers funds between countries we have things like the Barnett formula and EU budgetary process, which are quite stricty and accurate. When it comes to something which advantage the City of London, we have to endure the woolly minded liberalism of Jacques Delors's "Free movement of Labour" and lump the consequences.

 

 

Nick

Edited 6 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Hollobone is an idiot MP.  He's local to me along with Peter Bone & Pursglove.  All only interested in their own (business) interests, which is why they're anti ECHR & pro Brexit as they'll do well from business screwing over their employees. 

 

 

Poppycock.  Where is the proof of this?  There is none, it's nonsense from the brexit side which plays on the anger/fear of immigration

 

On the point of Turkey, Armenia etc, none are even close to joining the EU as none have met even the 3 basic requirements for membership, even though the process has started.  And even if they do, there WILL be limits on who can travel between member states and eligibility to reside in another state.

 

Of course rubbished by Boris, even though it's in EU documents.  But then again it's unlikely to happen at all - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/06/erdogan-turkey-not-alter-anti-terror-laws-visa-free-travel-eu

And the City Of London are not acting in their own best interest by allowing uncontrolled mass migration that, through its scale and rapidity jeopardises the social fabric and infrastructure of a country. As soon as the UK goes "third World tits" the City types will be off in their exec jets to the States et all.

 

Poppycock ? Really ?  Absorbing and providing for 14 million people over a period of 20 years its unprecedented in UK economic history - that's equivalent to 28 towns of 500,000 people (Say 150,000 accommodation units)  i.e. equivalent to 2.5 London Boroughs for each 500K - look at private housing developers abismal record in the last 10 years. Public Sector doesn't do building. And all that with the major manufacturing industries all but finished, the economic focus moving to central Europe (Look where all the domestic goods and car factories are now) and another intense round of automation on the near horizon (Ambulatory robots and automated road transport). Where are the jobs, even at the new  living wage, to support an extra 14 million ?

 

As to Turkey and the others seeking accession to the EU, Mr Hollobone tells us that under an EU scheme, to which the UK is signed-up, we are now paying Turkey about £1 billion to assist them to make arrangements to join the EU. As the MP asks, if, as is claimed in the PM's most recent statement, Turkey's admission is over 10 years away, why are these payments being made now ? George still hasn't eliminated his deficit (Next to deceit in the dictionary).

 

Obviously, these are accepted facts, as Brokenshire, the Immigration Minister didn't dispute any of them and,  I don't think he was just protecting his political future as a junior minister.

 

 

Nick

Edited 6 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

Yeah. And the bill for the Syrian refugees rescue and settlement effort is something which should be slapped, with force, on the desk of the incoming president.

 

When the idea of the "Arab Spring" was conceived by  the wiz****s at the Pentagon, CIA and State Department, they won't have overlooked the fact, that if it went wrong (Or is that right ?) the economic consequences would fall on the European States.

 

Polluter pays - even if its only socio-economic fabric that's damaged.

 

Pay-up ******* !

 

 

Nick

Edited 6 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[Clunkclick]

That's a "Don't approach within 500 miles of the GP surgery" letter waiting for me.

 

 

Nick

[Scribbler]

EPIC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6FZ-V8w_8

 

The guys a brilliant speaker very positive and puts Chucka straight as a bonus. The rapturous applause from a bipartisan crowd are fully deserved.

Edited 8 May, 2016 by Scribbler

[trundlenut]

EPIC -

The guys a brilliant speaker very positive and puts Chucka straight as a bonus. The rapturous applause from a bipartisan crowd are fully deserved.

So we just stop trading with the EU, turn around and sell stuff to the rest of the world. Just like that. Excellent.

Oh and correlation does not mean causation. I like the insinuation that the EU is the reason the UK hasn't experienced massive growth and if we left we would.

Oh and it would appear you can say the EU economy hasn't grown because it now has more countries in it, like Croatia, so you aren't comparing apples with apples.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

[lol-lol]

EPIC - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6FZ-V8w_8

 

The guys a brilliant speaker very positive and puts Chucka straight as a bonus. The rapturous applause from a bipartisan crowd are fully deserved.

 

 

His logic is so flawed it is laughable.  He does not quote facts or studies by respected groups.   

1. So we can trade better with New Zealand (population 4M) and snub the EU (population 550M) because the speak English.
2. China and India are growing at 7% and they are outside Europe.  (Yes and their GDP per capita is a third and a sixth repsectively and at that difference ie 5% as our is a paltry 2%, slowest recovery in a century) it will take them decades to get where we are if we continue as is.  Probably will close the gap if we leave the EU by us dropping to meet them. 

 

The guys biography shows he has never had a proper job and his rabble rousing speeches will have limited appeal as shown by the London mayoral election and several other English cities (including Worcester thankfully) council election where Con credibility and division is looking like a party lacking economic competency and vision.    

[Aspman]

Got my taxpayer funded leaflet through today.

 

Straight in the recycling bin (along with all the other election flyers).

 

Can I get a refund since I bloody paid for it ?

[bilun777]

Got my taxpayer funded leaflet through today.

 

Straight in the recycling bin (along with all the other election flyers).

 

Can I get a refund since I bloody paid for it ?

I got mine weeks ago and immediately posted it back to 10 downing street,asking them to re-cycle it for me.

[Ootohere]

Project Fear really is revealing the greedy greedy MP's and Peers of the Realm that should have stood down while campaigning for or against staying in the EU.

Take no pay or claim no expenses until after the 23rd June and the referendum.

 

There is nothing quite like the waste of public money there was leading up to the Scottish Referendum and Neverendum, 

but there is still plenty while some of the UK Government Elected Members argue and campaign one way  and others the opposite, all while being funded by the UK & EU Tax Payers and even non tax payers...

 

Looking forward to resignations from some in the Conservative & Unionist Party which ever way the referendum goes, 

and if it is a UK Out vote the MEP's from the UK needing to look for jobs, not that they really will need them as no doubt the resettlement payments will keep them in a decent lifestyle, give them more time with their families etc.

Edited 9 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Scribbler]

 He does not quote facts or studies by respected groups.   

 

 

Are these 'respected groups' think tanks based in London with vested interests in staying in the EU by any chance?

[jlwah]

1. So we can trade better with New Zealand (population 4M) and snub the EU (population 550M) because the speak English.

Can you explain why we would not trade with Europe if we left? 

 

Would Europe refuse to sell us goods and services if we left?

 

The Remain argument is seriously flawed when it comes to trade. Any tariffs would be reciprocated and once the politicians realised that the outcome is not good for UK or Europe, the tariffs would be removed before they were even put in place. The net result would be similar to what we already do. 

 

And as for security, Cameron is now so desperate that he says WW3 is just around the corner if we quit - having been a former supporter of Cameron's I now think he'll be toast unless there is a sizeable vote to remain  (60% or more) and even then his hyperbolic (and largely false) rhetoric has upset a large section of the Tory party that even then they may force his ejection in order that a unifying leader might be found (if there is such a person around).

 

Exciting days!!

[Scribbler]

It makes me laugh how the Remain camp are saying that we are the glue holding the EU together and if we leave it will suddenly implode. Don't you realise its collapsing as we speak you only have to watch current events in Austria as a seismic indicator of what's going to happen. We have a golden opportunity to be ahead of the trend cut the chord and avoid some of the fall out.

[Ootohere]

If the UK Voters actually do vote to leave the EU and there are trade restrictions it is rather fortunate there is still 'The Commonwealth'.

http://thecommonwealth.org/member-countries

 

I take it the UK will still be a member of the Commonwealth and have Trading partners a plenty until the EU gets some new agreements going 

and also the US, China, Japan etc.

 

Long life the Queen, or the King, or what ever,

and Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves, with NATO's & other Superpowers help because the British Navy is a bit sh!te..

as are the other Armed Forces.

[gadgetman]

Can you explain why we would not trade with Europe if we left?

The argument isn't that we won't trade, it's that the terms are unlikely to be as favourable as they are as part of the EU.

There is unlikely to be continued access under a single market without paying an EU subscription as at present or as Norway and Switzerland do (but they get no say in the EU for that), so there is a real possibility of important levies and restrictions being imposed on us.

A Swiss or Norway membership model is the most likely which brings a worse deal than we currently have, whilst having to accept ALL EU laws, paying the EU as we do now and being less in control.

So yes BMW will still sell us cars, your supermarket will still source it's veg from Spain, Italy & the Netherlands but may tax us accordingly.

Yes we could tax them back, but we import more from the EU than we sell to them so that's really not going to go down well in our favour.

Ref Cameron comments today on the EU breaking out in war, as a keen remainer (economic & employment reasons) I'm gobsmacked he made those comments. A very unwise move IMO

[Ootohere]

We get back to the fact the British Isles are not very productive and lacks natural resources and a hard working indigenous populations.

 

So why the UK went and raided and occupied other Countries around the world, picking and choosing those that could provide 

a comfortable lifestyle for many in the British Isles.

 

Maybe now time to re-adjust the UK's actual wealth then, Property & Energy Prices and the Economy.

Sell surplus goods for what they are worth or you can get for them if they achieve a premium, and import what the people can afford or want to pay for. 'Fair Trade' 

 

The United Kingdom of the British Isles & Northern Ireland, a small set of Islands called the British Isles with little resources in much of it, and very little in the south other than being a handy base for Banking and Tax Evasion and fronting other Countries Monies and illegal money laundering.

 

Will London Property Prices drop, or will just others from around the World buy more for less money and still choose to live in the UK?

Edited 9 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Clunkclick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36243296

 

How desperate can you appear to be pushing out this drivel.

 

Why stop there. Perhaps he can get quotes from Chicken Little  "The sky's going to fall in " and Min Bannister " We're all going to be murdered in our beds"

 

He'll be telling us something equally unbelievable next. That the Germans have been using the EU to rebuild themselves to a position of post-war superiority in Europe, whilst the UK was using membership as a safety net in case something went wrong during the transition from an industrial to retail economy (Some safety net).

 

I'm off to French kiss a horse.

 

Nick

Edited 9 May, 2016 by Clunkclick

[lol-lol]

Are these 'respected groups' think tanks based in London with vested interests in staying in the EU by any chance?

 

Of the "Big 4" accountancy and consultancy firms, two are HQ'd in London, one is Netherlands and one in US...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_accounting_firms

 

They thrive on complexity and often change.  Might make more money from a Brexit.  Like KPMG, EY or PwC might move to their HQ out of the UK maybe on Brexit though Uk corporate tax rate is one of the most attractive. 

[lol-lol]

Can you explain why we would not trade with Europe if we left? 

Would Europe refuse to sell us goods and services if we left?

The Remain argument is seriously flawed when it comes to trade. Any tariffs would be reciprocated and once the politicians realised that the outcome is not good for UK or Europe, the tariffs would be removed before they were even put in place. The net result would be similar to what we already do. 

And as for security, Cameron is now so desperate that he says WW3 is just around the corner if we quit - having been a former supporter of Cameron's I now think he'll be toast unless there is a sizeable vote to remain  (60% or more) and even then his hyperbolic (and largely false) rhetoric has upset a large section of the Tory party that even then they may force his ejection in order that a unifying leader might be found (if there is such a person around).

Exciting days!!

 

Of course we would still trade with the EU.  Like Norway, Switzerland and Turkey we would have to make customs entries for those trades in and out.  At an average cost of about £30 or so for a customs entry and many millions of entries in and out this would add hundreds of millions administrative costs to doing business with the EU.

 

The companies ready to do these entries would be the large freight forwarders such as Allport, Bollore, CEVA, DHL, DSV, Expeditors, FedEx, K&N, KWE, Nippon, Maersk, Panapina, Schenkers & UPS.

All non-UK companies who will need to employ several thousands extras staff in the UK and in EU to do these entries.  I work for one of the above and we will be very busy if Brexit occurs.   

[cheezemonkhai]

So the EU keeps us safe.... or is it our security forces that keep them safe.

We pay in more than we get out.

 

If we stay it's going to fall apart anyway, so frankly I'd rather leave now, and if they come crying with some serious reforms consider them, or just walk.