1.4 TSI 150 BHP reliability questioned

[mitadoc]

Map or tuning box can give the 1.4 an uplift to about the same bhp as the 1.8TFSI engine with a bit more torque, I think.

 

As has been said, this 1.4 engine is nothing like the old 1.4 (122/125PS turbo only, or 150-185PS in twincharger guise) and (I believe) was brought out alongside the MQB platform (Octavia III) so the earliest examples aren't even 3 years old yet.  I've taken a jump for the ACT version in a Leon this time and so far, so good but I've only got 8000 miles on it so far.  I do 25-30k a year and for me (a company car driver, and it's a DSG) it works out cheaper than the diesel.  I also prefer petrols if choosing a 4 cylinder engine.  I only really tolerate diesels when they get to 5 and 6 cylinders

 

There is also the mention of torque versus gearbox ratios - not much use having 30% more torque from the engine if the gearing is raised to suit the lower revving nature of the diesel as you lose that "advantage" - ease of driving (to me) is the width of the top section of the torque "curve" - wider the better.

 

There is also the DPF issue - with no motorways in Cornwall, you may struggle to ever get it up to temperature sufficiently for a passive regen which then leads to the engine having to do it's own which wipes out any possible MPG advantage.

My wife and I travel a lot, usually weekends. And every 2 weeks time I travel to Plymouth, which is something, I suppose. My daily commute to work is 12 miles in the morning and 12 return in evenings, half of it it`s urban, the other half - A30.

What about in terms of reliability? Are 2.0 TDI or 1.6 TDI better than TSIs?

 

Cheers

[andyvee]

Map or tuning box can give the 1.4 an uplift to about the same bhp as the 1.8TFSI engine with a bit more torque, I think.

As has been said, this 1.4 engine is nothing like the old 1.4 (122/125PS turbo only, or 150-185PS in twincharger guise) and (I believe) was brought out alongside the MQB platform (Octavia III) so the earliest examples aren't even 3 years old yet. I've taken a jump for the ACT version in a Leon this time and so far, so good but I've only got 8000 miles on it so far. I do 25-30k a year and for me (a company car driver, and it's a DSG) it works out cheaper than the diesel. I also prefer petrols if choosing a 4 cylinder engine. I only really tolerate diesels when they get to 5 and 6 cylinders

There is also the mention of torque versus gearbox ratios - not much use having 30% more torque from the engine if the gearing is raised to suit the lower revving nature of the diesel as you lose that "advantage" - ease of driving (to me) is the width of the top section of the torque "curve" - wider the better.

There is also the DPF issue - with no motorways in Cornwall, you may struggle to ever get it up to temperature sufficiently for a passive regen which then leads to the engine having to do it's own which wipes out any possible MPG advantage.

Regen's don't tend to happen on motorways, you tend to get them on A road driving.

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[philhoward]

The daily commute won't be enough to do a passive regen - the run to Plymouth will probably do it though.

 

As for overall reliability - too early to tell I guess.  There seems to be reports of failing boost sensors and water pumps leaking on the TDI (not sure if it's only the 2.0 or not) but that could just be dodgy batches some time in the past rather than something endemic to the engine?  Nothing sticks in my mind causing a problem on the 1.4's as yet?

[andyvee]

Boost sensors seem to be the 184, not the 150.

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[philhoward]

Ah - my mistake then if that's the case.  Apologies for possible scaremongering

[themanwithnoaim]

http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/vehicle-skoda_octavia_iii-1.4tsi-150ps gives the little petrol 183PS compared to 190 PS in the 150 diesel on http://www.diesel-performance.co.uk/vehicle-skoda_octavia_iii-2.0-tdi-150-ps-cr

These figires are tuning boxes, not remaps as the mk3 ain't yet outta warranty discussing remaps is for the truely special amount us only.

The diesel is dirty, there is no diesel engine development, all diesel R&D is how to clean the **** coming outta the exhaust & that's starting to eat away at those mpg's.

Toyota don't sell a diesel in UK anymore, diesel is dead, you & many others just ain't ready to accept it yet, 10 years of taxation, bad media & social stigma will convince most well, other than the "Onslow's"

But no if your happy with your diesel & it getting warm eventually in the winter you crack on vRSant & I'll just be happy for ya if your happy.

Regards

T

[philhoward]

Toyota don't sell a diesel?  Best tell them then as they're still showing them on their website..

[andyvee]

... and the CR150 warms up pretty damn quickly.

 

Having said that, given Dieselgate and likely RFL changes I'll be going back to petrol. 280PS 4x4 DSG Superb III looks tempting ..........

[pipsyp]

God this diesel bashing could just go on and on couldnt it??!!

Dieselgate occured not because Diesel is a dead technology that couldnt be made to work in california....VW...probably influenced by beancounters and the exec in charge at the time decided not to equip the cars with suitable emissions controls to save money....they could have made the cars comply but decided to save money and cheat.

Absolutely diesel is still relevant until such time hybrid/battery/fuel cell tech improves and becomes much more mass market. Both petrol and diesel damage the environment and those that live in it...in some ways differently but no fossil fuel is really that good. From my own experience though i know diesels in most conditions are more frugal and burn less fossil fuel in the first place so I certainly wont be giving them a hard time. Also lets not forget nearly every lorry, bus, train, boat, ship etc still burns diesel so its not just cars.

[mitadoc]

Sorry for changing the topic little bit but what about DSG reliability? Any good?

Thanks

[andyvee]

God this diesel bashing could just go on and on couldnt it??!!

Dieselgate occured not because Diesel is a dead technology that couldnt be made to work in california....VW...probably influenced by beancounters and the exec in charge at the time decided not to equip the cars with suitable emissions controls to save money....they could have made the cars comply but decided to save money and cheat.

Absolutely diesel is still relevant until such time hybrid/battery/fuel cell tech improves and becomes much more mass market. Both petrol and diesel damage the environment and those that live in it...in some ways differently but no fossil fuel is really that good. From my own experience though i know diesels in most conditions are more frugal and burn less fossil fuel in the first place so I certainly wont be giving them a hard time. Also lets not forget nearly every lorry, bus, train, boat, ship etc still burns diesel so its not just cars.

My last 3 cars have been diesel .......... and given the advances in petrol turbo technology I am seriously considering going back to petrol next time.

[andyvee]

Sorry for changing the topic little bit but what about DSG reliability? Any good?

Thanks

Which DSG? 6 speed or 7 speed?

 

You have opened a can of worms here ..............

[themanwithnoaim]

Toyota don't sell a diesel?  Best tell them then as they're still showing them on their website..

Sorry Phil am I bad or what, the Toyota board decided not to ignore the die-hard die-sel ludits but, to offset any possibility of an "emmissionsgate" they've fitted BMW diesel engines. I mean who'd expect a German too lie about emmissions?

[mitadoc]

Which DSG? 6 speed or 7 speed?

 

You have opened a can of worms here ..............

Sorry for that. I assume 6-speed? The one which is coupled with 2.0 TDI.

[andyvee]

The six speed is pretty bulletproof, but is heavy and old technology now.

 

The 7 speed is lighter, suits the smaller engines better, but there were some reliability issues early on, which now seem to have been rectified. You are limited on the power you can put through it though, hence why the larger engines have the 6 speed still.

Edited 8 February, 2016 by andyvee

[mitadoc]

The six speed is pretty bulletproof, but is heavy and old technology now.

 

The 7 speed is lighter, suits the smaller engines better, but there were some reliability issues early on, which now seem to have been rectified. You are limited on the power you can put through it though, hence why the larger engines have the 6 speed still.

Is it OK in terms of longevity? Does it cope with extra power after remapping?

[andyvee]

6 speed - yes

 

7 speed - wouldn't like to comment .....

[mitadoc]

6 speed - yes

 

7 speed - wouldn't like to comment .....

Thank you a lot. I actually found great deals for 64 plate 2 Octavias Elegance 2.0 TDI DSG for around 16k-ish GBP and less than 10K miles.

I noticed that the steering wheel is different than SE L model which I suggest is the same but with slight modifications - the trim is almost identical, sat-nav, alcantara&leather seats, rear parking sensors, folding  mirrors, 17'' wheels and so on. Just the Elegance has the 4 spokes steering wheel,rather the SE L with the sportier 3 spoke which I prefer but the price difference of 7K is something significant, I have to admit.

Edited 8 February, 2016 by mitadoc

[vRSAnt]

God this diesel bashing could just go on and on couldnt it??!!

Dieselgate occured not because Diesel is a dead technology that couldnt be made to work in california....VW...probably influenced by beancounters and the exec in charge at the time decided not to equip the cars with suitable emissions controls to save money....they could have made the cars comply but decided to save money and cheat.

Absolutely diesel is still relevant until such time hybrid/battery/fuel cell tech improves and becomes much more mass market. Both petrol and diesel damage the environment and those that live in it...in some ways differently but no fossil fuel is really that good. From my own experience though i know diesels in most conditions are more frugal and burn less fossil fuel in the first place so I certainly wont be giving them a hard time. Also lets not forget nearly every lorry, bus, train, boat, ship etc still burns diesel so its not just cars.

 

Yep.

 

I drive both. A 1.9TDi and 2.0 TSI. I make absolutely no distinction between which I'm driving,

I suppose the only slightly awkward moment is the initial diesel puff of the almost 10 year old diesel but theres not even usually anyone about to witness that where I live/work/park. I don't live in London/Cambs/Oxford and don't plan to anytime soon where these things are probably more "trending"

 

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I haven't de-catted my exhausts so the cars pretty much run as were designed to in regard to emissions I'm sure.

They will wear out eventually and need to be replaced by a new, tighter regulated product I'm sure.

In the meanwhile why should I feel guilty about using a product, I bought legally that I have to pay tax and insurance to use on the roads ?

 

Its more likely the gov't etc assume the new standards enforced at the manufacturing end, rather than trying to police this

( the MOT garage is the right place to enforce ensuring people don't de-cat or de-DPF their vehicles on existing vehicles ).

 

Its unrealistic to expect some massive knee jerk as it just won't happen. Perhaps for those paying no tax on small diesels but to rise say 2x + for everyone else ? I highly doubt it so I wouldn't worry immediately.

 

Even so what is this supposed social stigma and whose to tell me I can't do x,y,z?

Some probably have 10 kids and are the worst kind of throwaway consumers ever, whats the true cost of that? What clothes do you buy, do sweatshop child labourers have to keep you in your threads ?

Or you flying on holiday with your family, cost of pollution and fuel?

You probably drive more than me anyway I do £5K or less a year ....

blah blah blah

 

IMO Theres too much double standard self-righteous eco-mania in my opinion, fueled by the initial wave of euphoria of things like the Toyota Prius reported to be more eco-costly through its average lifetime than the average car ?

 

LOL Family planning is more effective than buying a Prius for instance haha

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1052110_five-reasons-buying-a-hybrid-prius-wont-save-the-planet

[e301988325i]

I know the tdi vrs has bigger capacity injectors than the 150ps 2.0 tdi. Our 2.0 tdi started to loosen up after 3000 miles and the fuel economy took a turn for the better.

[pipsyp]

Yep.

I drive both. A 1.9TDi and 2.0 TSI. I make absolutely no distinction between which I'm driving,

I suppose the only slightly awkward moment is the initial diesel puff of the almost 10 year old diesel but theres not even usually anyone about to witness that where I live/work/park. I don't live in London/Cambs/Oxford and don't plan to anytime soon where these things are probably more "trending"

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I haven't de-catted my exhausts so the cars pretty much run as were designed to in regard to emissions I'm sure.

They will wear out eventually and need to be replaced by a new, tighter regulated product I'm sure.

In the meanwhile why should I feel guilty about using a product, I bought legally that I have to pay tax and insurance to use on the roads ?

Its more likely the gov't etc assume the new standards enforced at the manufacturing end, rather than trying to police this

( the MOT garage is the right place to enforce ensuring people don't de-cat or de-DPF their vehicles on existing vehicles ).

Its unrealistic to expect some massive knee jerk as it just won't happen. Perhaps for those paying no tax on small diesels but to rise say 2x + for everyone else ? I highly doubt it so I wouldn't worry immediately.

Even so what is this supposed social stigma and whose to tell me I can't do x,y,z?

Some probably have 10 kids and are the worst kind of throwaway consumers ever, whats the true cost of that? What clothes do you buy, do sweatshop child labourers have to keep you in your threads ?

Or you flying on holiday with your family, cost of pollution and fuel?

You probably drive more than me anyway I do £5K or less a year ....

blah blah blah

IMO Theres too much double standard self-righteous eco-mania in my opinion, fueled by the initial wave of euphoria of things like the Toyota Prius reported to be more eco-costly through its average lifetime than the average car ?

LOL Family planning is more effective than buying a Prius for instance haha

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1052110_five-reasons-buying-a-hybrid-prius-wont-save-the-planet

Here here vRSAnt well put :-)

[pipsyp]

I know the tdi vrs has bigger capacity injectors than the 150ps 2.0 tdi. Our 2.0 tdi started to loosen up after 3000 miles and the fuel economy took a turn for the better.

Yep the 184 has bigger injectors, turbo and also has Variable Valve Timing....why it relatively linear and rev hungry for a 2.0 TDI...certainly compared to the 150 which has a v strong mid range and less on top. Great engine still though...I have both.

[philhoward]

Sorry Phil am I bad or what, the Toyota board decided not to ignore the die-hard die-sel ludits but, to offset any possibility of an "emmissionsgate" they've fitted BMW diesel engines. I mean who'd expect a German too lie about emmissions?

Ah - didn't realise they were using BMW engines (possibly a joint venture as BMW used the 1.4D in the previous generation MINI when that first came out?) rather than their own.  My apologies - I just saw plenty of diesels available IN Toyotas.

[philhoward]

DSG6 needs oil changes every now and then (possibly every 60k - I can't remember) as it's a wet clutch; DSG7 has dry clutches which doesn't (but limits torque, hence the current 250Nm torque limit - about 180PS in petrol engines).  Aside from an issue in Chinese built DSG7 boxes a few years back, they seem to generally be reliable.  There have been problems with gearboxes sometimes getting confused but I think that's pretty much been ironed out as it's been software driven, so evolving over the years.  Yes, there are occasional problems reported but nothing major.

[JPH0091]

So, very little between the engines according to those curves, about 4% difference max. Probably not even noticeable to most people.

 

I don't know many people who were wanting to drive 'quickly' would be in 6th at 100kph though

 

I suppose it all depends on the definition of 'punchier' and how the bum dyno reacts

 

Yes, it's quite a small difference. That was just to show the difference in engine torque did not disadvantage the petrol. By the way, I think the TDI 150 is only 320Nm, as max engine torque.

Of course, the difference is made worse by the 6% additional weight for the diesel.

In fact, the point is not when driving quickly.

On the contrary, this difference is  more relevant for drivers already in 6th gear at 80kph, or when towing uphill. There, it makes a significant advantage for the petrol.

 

I tend to say this 1.4 TSI is more suitable than the 2.0 TDI for diesel regular drivers.

Edited 9 February, 2016 by JPH0091