Council Tax Increase for " Green Bins "

[gadgetman]

The Community Charge (Poll Tax) was perfect,

charge every adult for every service regardless of using them.

Better than charging a Single Householder on outdated house values and giving a 25% discount where there is no other adult in the house.

While next door the same size / value home pays 100% Council Tax and can have many many adults residing there all

using or not using local authority services.

Wasn't this looked at again by Mr Osborne & Mr pickles last parliament?

Makes sense

[domhnall]

You're welcome to push the discussion in any direction you wish, by all means. However, I doubt there's enough years left in my life for you to convince me that my local council are good at managing their accounts and delegating services where they're most needed. I've had far too many run ins with incompetent council officials over the years for anyone to convince me otherwise. And having worked as a subcontractor for councils in various areas has only reinforced my view that they're not worth the offices they sit in.

Most notable proof of incompetent behaviour was when the bin collection man scratched my car all down one side when collecting bin bags from my drive. He denied it of course, and I couldn't prove it, but he then decided that my refuse wasn't worth collecting. However, he collected all the other refuse bags from the surrounding houses and deposited them on my lawn for the bin wagon to collect later. So once a week I had 6 houses worth of dirty nappies, food waste, tins, everything which people were throwing away, all in a nice untidy pile on my front lawn. I told him to move it all and he refused, so I did. Council lady sent me a letter telling me that I shouldn't throw rubbish bags on the pavement because pedestrians would have to walk on the road to get past. When I put her right on the actual story she still thought I should be allowing my property to be a storage waystation for their workers. This continued for a few weeks until I took photos of the next pile before I removed them, and sent them to her, showing the scale of the problem. I also showed her photos of the pile when I'd moved them, and explained that I was not going to have my lawn a repository for all my neighbours hazardous waste any more, and if it happened again then it would be blocking the road.

It happened again the next week, so I met her face to face and told her to get someone there straight away to clear the road, because that's where it all ended up.

The incompetent worker is still employed by them, but he doesn't come on my property any more. Now all that happens is they leave my wheelie bin in the middle of the drive so I have to stop in the road to move it when I come home.

None of that means that councils do nothing for the money nor that people who rent their homes are layabouts. Funnily enough I had a run in with one of our bin men too. All sorted in the end. They just kept forgetting to empty our bins while emptying everyone else's. I offered to take the bins to the council offices and it all got sorted pdq

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[Rustynuts]

It would appear that the refuse (or refuse) collection is the main issue with many people. My belief is still (and always will be) that councils are staffed be people whose maxim is "just good enough". The whole council is run by people who do just enough to achieve the result they aim for. And that's never going to be excellent.

[gadgetman]

But to be fair, with less and less budget we're all going to get less and less service.

Not everything can be financed in the current climate. And everything else is farmed out to the lowest bidder who will do even less to make a healthy profit.

[Paul007]

But to be fair, with less and less budget we're all going to get less and less service.

 

 

and it's going to cost us more.

[VWD]

None of that means that councils do nothing for the money nor that people who rent their homes are layabouts. Funnily enough I had a run in with one of our bin men too. All sorted in the end. They just kept forgetting to empty our bins while emptying everyone else's. I offered to take the bins to the council offices and it all got sorted pdq

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few years ago ,locally there was a dispute over additional black bags ( days before multi bins ), and bin men refused to remove black bags, whilst council dithered over the dispute. locally ,folk decided that if council would not solve the dispute, then the portfolio holder for this service should be made aware. on his bin day, he awoke to find his bin under a mountain of black bags, left by disgruntled persons. needless to say, the dispute was ended pronto.

[skomaz]

It would appear that the refuse (or refuse) collection is the main issue with many people. My belief is still (and always will be) that councils are staffed be people whose maxim is "just good enough". The whole council is run by people who do just enough to achieve the result they aim for. And that's never going to be excellent.

 

Not sure some of them even operate by that low 'just good enough' standard.  Don't get me wrong there are many hard working and good people who work for local authorities but, having worked with them for many, many years as an outside service provider (who barely make a profit on our jobs by the way) there are many, many more people working for them who have absolutely no clue or compulsion to provide ANY level of service.

[Machpoint005]

Before some folk start banging on about how terrible the bin collectors are, I suggest they spend just half a day riding in the cab of a bin lorry and see what they have to put up with on a daily basis.  I did it last year and it's a real eye opener.

[Machpoint005]

And on green bins generally (which where I live means garden and food waste), how much landfill space do you think there would be if we didn't recycle whenever possible? Where woud you like the (unsorted) waste put so you don't have to deal with it?

[Auric Goldfinger]

The intention of this thread was to see if I could give my Green bin back to the council and not pay the extra £39. I have since found out that only 60% of Harrogate's residents have these green bins. Those that don't have the Green bins simply bag up there Garden waste and put it in the normal black bin which is household rubbish for land fill. Think I'll do the same, can't see the point of paying for removal of garden waste when the council will take it for free.

[bilun777]

.Well you did ask for "Your thoughts please".

It was only 60 posts ,and you successfully answered your own Question.

An answer I think we'd all agree with.

[gadgetman]

The intention of this thread was to see if I could give my Green bin back to the council and not pay the extra £39. I have since found out that only 60% of Harrogate's residents have these green bins. Those that don't have the Green bins simply bag up there Garden waste and put it in the normal black bin which is household rubbish for land fill. Think I'll do the same, can't see the point of paying for removal of garden waste when the council will take it for free.

Our general waste bin has no garden or food waste stamped all over it.

There's a charge of £25 if they have to sort your bin correctly.

[KenONeill]

The Community Charge (Poll Tax) was perfect,

charge every adult for every service regardless of using them.

 

Better than charging a Single Householder on outdated house values and giving a 25% discount where there is no other adult in the house.

While next door the same size / value home pays 100% Council Tax and can have many many adults residing there all 

using or not using local authority services.

One big issue with the Poll Tax (aside from it's unfairness; see Adam Smith for it's "advantage" and disadvantages) was that you could be liable for full Poll Tax whilst still having insufficient income to pay Income Tax (early 1980s, with IT threshold ~£2500 PA).

[Ootohere]

Actually Students never paid, which was why Farmers & Land Owners where happy to rent out what were previously unoccupied properties.

 

I was on a Low Income and never paid Full Community Charge.

So not quite sure on where those not able to pay had to pay.

 

But plenty that could pay did not pay, 

Dundee Labour Councillors and the likes, 

& i object to those that got off then, and then got off with the Penalty Charges.

[KenONeill]

Actually Students never paid, which was why Farmers & Land Owners where happy to rent out what were previously unoccupied properties.

 

I was on a Low Income and never paid Full Community Charge.

So not quite sure on where those not able to pay had to pay.

 

But plenty that could pay did not pay, 

Dundee Labour Councillors and the likes, 

& i object to those that got off then, and then got off with the Penalty Charges.

Well I know people who weren't classified as students but still had to pay full Poll Tax on ~£45 a week.

[Ootohere]

Are you saying they earned £45 a week and were paying Community Charge back when there was Community charge?

 

How much were they paying a month do you know from £195 earnings?.

If they paid 100% Council tax as in Employment they will have been receiving benefits i would imagine, 

and FIS, Child Benefit, Milk & Vitamin tokens were available then for 'Hard Working' Families and Single Parents on low incomes.  Mrs Thatcher was quite good that way, and then expecting those that could pay should pay.

Edited 17 February, 2016 by GoneOffskiroottoot

[KenONeill]

Are you saying they earned £45 a week and were paying Community Charge back when there was Community charge?

 

How much were they paying a month do you know from £195 earnings?.

If they paid 100% Council tax as in Employment they will have been receiving benefits i would imagine, 

and FIS, Child Benefit, Milk & Vitamin tokens were available then for 'Hard Working' Families and Single Parents on low incomes.  Mrs Thatcher was quite good that way, and then expecting those that could pay should pay.

Yes. No they were not receiving benefits, in fact they had to meet expenses such as travel to work out of their income as well as full Poll Tax.

[domhnall]

Yes. No they were not receiving benefits, in fact they had to meet expenses such as travel to work out of their income as well as full Poll Tax.

 

I was a trainee solicitor, I earned £4500 a year, had to pay travel and housing as well as full poll tax. Gave up my flat in the end and moved back in with my parents. Wasn't sustainable otherwise. 

[KenONeill]

I was a trainee solicitor, I earned £4500 a year, had to pay travel and housing as well as full poll tax. Gave up my flat in the end and moved back in with my parents. Wasn't sustainable otherwise. 

"Like this" might send the wrong message completely, but thanks for the supporting statement.

[Ootohere]

£4,500 a year is £86.53 a week, 

a bit more than £45 a week that Ken talks about.

 

I phoned my Mum to ask what her and my Dad paid, and all she remembered was it was Double plus what their Rates had been.

[domhnall]

£4,500 a year is £86.53 a week, 

a bit more than £45 a week that Ken talks about.

 

I phoned my Mum to ask what her and my Dad paid, and all she remembered was it was Double plus what their Rates had been.

 

£4500 a year BEFORE tax George

 

trust me there wasn't a lot left

[Ootohere]

I know, i was on the lowest hourly rate Dundee Council paid.

[domhnall]

just found my old P60 for the year t 5 april 1989

 

total pay for year £2983. (obviously through rose tinted specs I thought I earned more)

 

tax deducted £93.50

 

NI deducted £537.06

 

that gives £45.228 per week and I was on full poll tax

 

not too far off Ken's figure  (feel free to like this post Ken)

 

:-)

Edited 17 February, 2016 by domhnall

[domhnall]

after 2 years I was up to £107.77 a week

 

and after 7 years having joined the mighty ScottishPower I was on just over £200 a week but by then the poll tax had gone so I was laughing  all the way to the Skoda dealership

Edited 17 February, 2016 by domhnall

[domhnall]

I know, i was on the lowest hourly rate Dundee Council paid.

 

you were a trainee lawyer to?