Castor issue

[serafumi]

Morning people . I have a question for you . Since having a recon rack fitted my castor on drivers side is out ... The wheel sits further back in the arch compared to passenger side . Also when you look at the power flex console bushes .the wishbone spigot is further through one then the other . I had a 4 wheel alignment done but the people who did it . Didn't understand about aligning the subframe .. Should I buy the subframe locating pins ?? Also has anyone ever used them ? Or shall I just take it to someone who understands Fabias ? If so any recommendations down south east

Regards Tony

[coskev]

Pretty sure that's not castor,castor angle is measured from the top hub mounting point to the bottom hub mounting point.

So your castor is not adjustable on the Fabia,as the bottom and top mounting points are fixed,the only way castor can be out is if something is bent.

I would take it back to the garage that fitted the rack and show them what you've found

[serafumi]

Ah that's interesting.. Sorry that I got it wrong .. The place that fitted the rack was a good friend of mine who is vag trained , he said I will need to get the subframe aligned. I just thought the place doing the alignment would of done that .. Am I right in thinking that if you move the subframe that the position of the wheel in the arch will move ?? If not I wonder what could be bent ... It's got new shocks , mounts , wishbones

[Tech1e]

Castor will be effected by subframe alignment. If your subframe is sat back on its bolts then your wishbone is going to be set back compared to the top mount.

[vindaloo]

Castor will be effected by subframe alignment. If your subframe is sat back on its bolts then your wishbone is going to be set back compared to the top mount.

 

 

Assuming that degree of wonkiness, it could even be slightly diagonal?

[coskev]

Ah that's interesting.. Sorry that I got it wrong .. The place that fitted the rack was a good friend of mine who is vag trained , he said I will need to get the subframe aligned. I just thought the place doing the alignment would of done that .. Am I right in thinking that if you move the subframe that the position of the wheel in the arch will move ?? If not I wonder what could be bent ... It's got new shocks , mounts , wishbones

As above actually,it will be your castor because the top of strut is still in its orig place,but bottom wishbone is back slightly!

Ref aligning subframe,I know when I had mine 4 wheel aligned they wouldn't touch the subframe when i mentioned it.

[serafumi]

Castor will be effected by subframe alignment. If your subframe is sat back on its bolts then your wishbone is going to be set back compared to the top mount.

So my next question . Should I buy the alignment pins ? If so where from ? Then go get the tracking done again..

[rum4mo]

I could be wrong here, but it is my understanding that if the car is initially set up spot on, if you want to take off the subframe, you fit these alignment pins prior to dropping the subframe, ie bolt out pin in > next bolt out next pin in etc etc, the theory was that they would allow you to refit the subframe in exactly the same position, though I'd doubt if they do well enough and that is why people tend to need a proper four wheel realignment after the subframe has been dropped. (these alignment pins have an excentric (sp??) sleeve on them) 

Edited 14 February, 2016 by rum4mo

[chris-H]

I could be wrong here, but it is my understanding that if the car is initially set up spot on, if you want to take off the subframe, you fit these alignment pins prior to dropping the subframe, ie bolt out pin in > next bolt out next pin in etc etc, the theory was that they would allow you to refit the subframe in exactly the same position, though I'd doubt if they do well enough and that is why people tend to need a proper four wheel realignment after the subframe has been dropped.

The problem is tho that after dropping the sub frame and " theoretically " refitting it out of position you can go to any 4 wheel alignment place ( std hunter system) and the wheels can be " aligned " perfectly

The sub frame is still out of alignment so you end up with a crab situation...

[rum4mo]

I'd hope not, how could that happen if the four wheel alignment is done correctly with reference to the manufacturer's figures, crabbing = not aligned - so job done wrong!

 

Edit:- are you not confusing tracking - ie only toeing corrected with full four wheel alignment?

Edited 14 February, 2016 by rum4mo

[serafumi]

I don't think I got a crab issue .. Car drives straight . Just castor on drivers side is out of spec ... Wheel looks ever so slightly further back in the arch then drivers side .. I would say that one side of subframe is forward and the other side is back .. I guess you could get this somewhere near right by aligning the locators on the back of wishbone .. This posts that go through the powerless bushes !!??!?

[rum4mo]

There used to be a Renault 7 or 9 that had an "offset" wheel on one side due to suspension "needs" - if that makes you feel any better!

[serafumi]

I did speak to wheels in motion . Sent him my hunter readings . And he said its nothing to worry about . But in my head I know it ain't right if you know what I mean... He also said if it was the other way round . Ie worst on passenger side , then it would pull like a pig

[Tech1e]

The way I tend to do it when the subframe is put up start all the bolts (inc steering rack) push the subframe all the way back and do up the bolts and then carry out the alignment. If camber or castor is out by a bit, slacken off the subframe and shift it. Most quality wheel alignment rigs will allow for wheel free adjustment.

Edited 14 February, 2016 by Tech1e

[garethw]

I know this doesn't help you but when I asked at the main dealers their concept was to put the sub frame back in the same place by looking at the mark left where dirt would have accumulated around the mounts.

[Tech1e]

I know this doesn't help you but when I asked at the main dealers their concept was to put the sub frame back in the same place by looking at the mark left where dirt would have accumulated around the mounts.

Not the right method then. A dealer should be using the alignment pins as per the workshop manual.

[garethw]

Yes, well that would be consistent will all the times you go to get new torque to yield bolts and part guy tells you that they just put them back with some thread lock.

LoL

[garethw]

What do these pins actually need to be in terms of thread and shank dimensions ?

Are they available to the general public or are they 'dealer only' ?

[Breezy_Pete]

Sure I've seen a pictures of these chassis pins somewhere, someone should acquire a genuine one/set and then measure up so we can make some 'Briskoda' sets?

[garethw]

Are these any good ?

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/laser-4722-vag-subframe-locating-pins/?da=1&TC=GS-040814722&gclid=CJPWrq_VjssCFXEz0wodRroI3Q

[Breezy_Pete]

Is this them:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjusting-Bolt-Subframe-VW-Polo-Golf-Audi-A4-Vehicle-Tool-Set-OEM-T10096-/381373525936

 

?

[Breezy_Pete]

Hehe, my German set looks to be slightly cheaper.

[garethw]

Mine are 'Made in Sheffield'

[Tech1e]

Looks like them.

[Breezy_Pete]

Mine are 'Made in Sheffield'

Fair play.

Wonder what the slotted bits and circlippy-looking bit are for? Tech1e, can you remember?

Wouldn't a threaded bit and a conical bit suffice? That would be far easier to make...