Does anyone else think VAG is pulling us leg's a bit, with shelving development of its 10 speed DSG, like I do?  I'm finding the question influential on deciding whether to bite the bullet and go for a 6 speed DSG Superb now, or wait to and see if the 10 speed does actually arrive sometime next year.

 

I know the 6 speed is considered very good but I cant help feeling that 10 self shifting ratios could be some kind of 'holly grail of smoothness'.

They already have a 7 speed they could use instead but keep using the 6 speed as it's cheaper.

 

Lee

Reading about the future Kodiak / Kodiaq and Audi's it looks like a 7speed DSG is what they are going with.

I've been looking at buying an XF   8 auto speed box

I've been looking at buying an XF   8 auto speed box

 

The ZF8HP is easily the best automatic available. 

The ZF8HP is easily the best automatic available.

It's pretty tough and drives well too. A traditional auto rather than a direct shift/dual clutch type gearbox but good none the less.

Gloss over the ZF 9 speed box in the Evoque/Disco Sport though. What a bag of w@nk that is.

70 mph limit and 7 speeds are already in 2nd by 6mph. Lots of Emperors clothes going on and like 27 speed mountain bikes were you might use 9 of those gears and occasionally more and often it is only 6 if even that.

It's pretty tough and drives well too. A traditional auto rather than a direct shift/dual clutch type gearbox but good none the less.

Gloss over the ZF 9 speed box in the Evoque/Disco Sport though. What a bag of w@nk that is.

 

I've owned several DSG's 6 speed wet and 7 speed dry and also ran the ZF8HP in a BMW for 3 years.

 

The ZF8HP is the better gearbox. Nearly as quick on upshifts, faster downshifts, no hesitation and smoother especially at low speed when the torque converter is in use. But over 1200rpm in 2nd the torque converter can lock out so it's effectively direct drive.

Edited 8 March, 201610 yr by logiclee

Tsi engines that are all to willing to lunch themselves,current DSG box problems. You think a VAG 10speed DSG is going to cover itself in glory on reliability?

70 mph limit and 7 speeds are already in 2nd by 6mph. Lots of Emperors clothes going on and like 27 speed mountain bikes were you might use 9 of those gears and occasionally more and often it is only 6 if even that.

All about torque spread for emissions is why they do it. They are upping the 9 speed to a 12 shortly.

Tsi engines that are all to willing to lunch themselves,current DSG box problems. You think a VAG 10speed DSG is going to cover itself in glory on reliability?

 

Makes me wonder if VAG have realised the rule of "Go with what you know". The 6 speeds took long enough to get right. The way they've ditched the 1.4TSI in favour of the old 1.8T in the Polo makes me think along a similar vein.

They never got the 6 or 7 speed properly right, we are only a couple of years on from the World Wide recalls excluding the EU. The extended warranties World Wide excluding the EU. So time and miles have show they need to do better and get the failure rates reduced. Sort out the components and software. Own up to Lemons and improve from their experience of poor research and manufacturing.

Makes me wonder if VAG have realised the rule of "Go with what you know". The 6 speeds took long enough to get right. The way they've ditched the 1.4TSI in favour of the old 1.8T in the Polo makes me think along a similar vein.

There's nothing old about the 1.8T in the Polo at all though.

Makes me wonder if VAG have realised the rule of "Go with what you know". The 6 speeds took long enough to get right. The way they've ditched the 1.4TSI in favour of the old 1.8T in the Polo makes me think along a similar vein.

1.8 TSI, not the old 1.8T.

and like 27 speed mountain bikes were you might use 9 of those gears and occasionally more and often it is only 6 if even that.

Not if you actually really use your mountain bike, say, around the likes of Dalby Forest, on a snowy New Years Morning.

 

Or Cannock Chase, in six inches of mud in places.

 

You need them gears, although the nature of the way they are aligned, and work, reduces the amount of useable gears by about eight.

Edited 8 March, 201610 yr by Tilt

Exactly.  They are there if Location and circumstances need.

The Rough Stuff Fellowship riders managed just fine for decades with many less and covered ground, 

and in the 80's with less than half as many gears there were plenty riding the Cairngorms with early mountain bikes, and before that fat tyre Dutch Bikers. Things move on and you get horses for courses and technology sold because of marketing and because people want the gear, even like a Race Bike when a Hybrid City bike suits better with 6 gears.

Like with Sports Cars that never get driven sportingly & when a City Car with a CVT will do the job more efficiently, but just does not have the image the buyer wants.

 

Like having 300 + BHP and 8 Gears in a vehicle, when in 70 mph limits you might use less than 1/3 of available power the majority of the time, 

and between 0-80 mph the multiple gears are to get the Emissions low enough and the fuel consumption acceptable.

If you want to take advantage of the available performance then you have the gearing.

Between 0-60 mph then the 8 gears are getting used for a short spread of rpm.

 

It come back to a TCT / DSG / Single or Twin Dry or Wet Clutch Multigear Box / Automated Manual being more complicated and once at 10 gears being as well being a CVT.

Electric Motors and lots of Torque changes the Gearbox Requirements and the GTE / E-Tronic have rather good DSG's and will suit 

the Hybrid VW Engines with Electric Superchargers,

Edited 8 March, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

So cars in the future will have about the same number of gears as trucks?

 

So what about a Transmission that's Constantly Variable with an infinite amount of ratios? Not sure if that's thought of yet. :p

We'll all be driving DAFs then

Subaru Lineatronics are doing pretty good.

The CVT in the Toyota 1.0 iQ was and still is damn good for a City car and even out on the road.

So cars in the future will have about the same number of gears as trucks?

 

So what about a Transmission that's Constantly Variable with an infinite amount of ratios? Not sure if that's thought of yet. :p

 

Sir - we've prepared the order for your new octavia, but are you really sure you want a manual?

 

4mins 50 seconds if you need to jump straight to it,

or worth listening to an Engineer that knows what works and what is Marketing BS.

Edited 9 March, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

I've driven the 8 speed in a BMW and it was sweet. after 1st changes were pretty much undetectable.

 

I didn't feel any need to play with the flappy paddles.

 

10 speed auto might be nice but getting a bit irrelevant for driver input.

The CVT in my Subaru is really nice (disclaimer - ones without SI Drive to tell the box what you expect of it are not nice). It emulates 6 or 8 gears if you want to go manual, depending on the mode. I find that 8 is too much clicking of the paddles to be of any fun. At 10 gears (or 12!) I don't really see the point of the complexity of a normal gearbox and they may as well just use a CVT which will be lighter, smoother and more efficient.

DSG technology has been around more than a decade now, when considering the novelty and complexity of the device its not so surprising issues occurred, but I would have expected the next generation to get it absolutely right.  Ain't all the issues with the existing boxes been sorted yet then? if there still are problems! it surely gives every impetus to get the next generation on to the market as soon as practicably possible and make damn sure its perfect this time.  This is why I cant understand VW stopping development.

Skoda still haven't been given the 7 speed wet clutch box found in Audis so doubt it would see any new gearbox any time soon.

 

The ratios in the 6 speed are just fine and give a good dynamic drive. All you will find in a new 10 speed gearbox is constant gear changes with short gear ratios. Much better to have a gear that will take you from 30mph to 60mph without having to have 2 gear changes in between.

 

If you want a Superb just buy one... and don't worry about not getting a 10 speed as the 6 speed is great!