What would you do?

[mender]

Mender,

As posters have basically stated, you are able to tell them to do one.

However, I suspect this is grating on you because, as I know, you are a honest broker. If it's a peace of mind issue then there is always the option of buying back and reselling.

I hope you get it sorted.

K

Many thanks Kevin, nice of you to say so.

I have sold many cars locally and built up a hard-earned reputation of selling well sorted reliable cars for less than dealer prices; one person has had four cars off me for his family and people know I'll help or advise if issues; one car broke a rear window and I found a bootlid with window fitted cheaper than just the glass, let alone mobile fitting for example-and I am forever fitting free bulbs or diagnosing rattles or whatever, years on....

This one has been a trial, though: no thanks, sizable loss, loads of hours spent working on it and being cross thinking about it!

I am going to call into the mechanics at 12.30 when they are due to collect; they have already said they don't see why they should pay for a brake fluid change at £40 which has improved the brake pedal feel (car passed MOT and was fine when test driven/delivered-this is now 5 weeks later)

I will be glad if they are happy and sensible, but will let it fly if they start being daft.

[Gwilo]

(car passed MOT and was fine when test driven/delivered-this is now 5 weeks later)

 

This bit.

 

Sold as seen, no warranty given or implied.  five weeks later they start to complain?  Sounds like buyers remorse.

They were happy with the terms of the sale, the contract you had.  

Don't be involved anymore.  You've more than covered your contractual obligations.

I suppose they *could* attempt taking it further but would it really be worth it, from their point of view?  Maybe they're just trying it on a bit.

An MOT only certifies the car as being roadworthy on the day, not for weeks after...

[CWARD]

It was never a private sale as it was bought with the intention of fixing up and selling and therefore a trade. 

 

Sold as seen doesn't really hold any worth. As from the AA website

 

• provide a 'sold as seen, tried and approved without guarantee' receipt
• print off and use our buyer's/seller's contract
• bear in mind that providing a 'sold as seen' receipt doesn't affect the buyer's legal rights - the car must match any description you give in writing or verbally in the course of the sale.
• you cannot use a 'sold as seen' receipt to cover the possibility that the car may be unroadworthy in some respect either.  The law is clear - it illegal to sell a car in an unroadworthy condition.

Edited 10 March, 2016 by CWARD

[rum4mo]

It does kind of sound like a Ford KA of that age is not what the learner had in mind! 

 

Kids can be very choosy about what car they are given, these parents should either have done their homework, or make it clear it is "this" or nothing.

 

The seller just seems to have got caught up in their mess, ie no Ford KA of that age would be acceptable.

 

Time to start picking your customers or vetting them, what a pain!

[mender]

It was never a private sale as it was bought with the intention of fixing up and selling and therefore a trade. 

 

Sold as seen doesn't really hold any worth. As from the AA website

That's fine as car is fits description perfectly and the receipt given points out what was being done, and was done.

The steering and brakes were fine on the test drive and car had MOT 48hrs prior, they felt steering was heavy 5 weeks later so I have changed strut top mounts and bearings, plus lubricated the UV joint at my own time and expense.

I also fitted a new heater control panel at my own time and expense, when it was agreed they would do this as I had fitted a new control valve and also a new thermostat and housing as it was weeping and may cause future problems, plus had delivered the car free.

The brakes were like all old Ka brakes, fairly soft but passed MOT and they drove it before buying and were happy, since then, 5 weeks and a learner driver, the pedal travel has increased very slightly, so mechanic said to bleed and change fluid, costing £40.

They moaned this should have been part of the service.

Car was perfectly accurately described and fully roadworthy with new MOT, they drove it 15 miles between them before buying and were happy to buy.

[mender]

It does kind of sound like a Ford KA of that age is not what the learner had in mind! 

 

Kids can be very choosy about what car they are given, these parents should either have done their homework, or make it clear it is "this" or nothing.

 

The seller just seems to have got caught up in their mess, ie no Ford KA of that age would be acceptable.

 

Time to start picking your customers or vetting them, what a pain!

Most are fine but if they were all like this I would jump off a bridge

[james0james]

Offer to buy it back  and move on

 

You have met the   "google inspired legal experts" the car buyer.

 

 

Good luck.

Edited 10 March, 2016 by james0james

[mender]

This about sums it all up

Re-arranged my whole day to meet them when coming to collect, put morning job back to tomorrow and afternoon job (collecting one damaged car, driving to Worcester, collecting another finished car and dropping that in Leominster) is now being done tonight after school bus run so I won't see the kids before bed.

They rang the mechanic 12.40 and said had been delayed, will come some time later.

I rang them straight back, onto answerphone, explained I had taken time of to go through the car with them and to please call back to advise what time they were now coming as I had re-arranged my day and had still not heard from them after leaving a message saying I'd done the heater and mounts for them.

No response, now wasted the day and have to work later.

[Evil]

Is the mechanic not close enough that he could shoot you a text when they pull up so you can quickly get over there? Sounds like they might be avoiding you pal.

[CWARD]

Have a read of this

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/legal-article-warranty/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/warranties-the-legal-requirements-when-selling-second-hand-cars

[Mr Grumpy]

After messing you about now, offer to buy the car back for £500 as a take it or leave it deal, if they refuse, tell them to do one, or you will bill them for your wasted time, then set your dog on them, and never buy another Ka.

[mender]

Have a read of this

 

http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/legal-article-warranty/motor-trade-warranty-guarantee-service-contract/warranties-the-legal-requirements-when-selling-second-hand-cars

thanks, read it, car was MOTd and has always been roadworthy, their other car is lighter and has sharper brakes, this is the real issue!

[mender]

Is the mechanic not close enough that he could shoot you a text when they pull up so you can quickly get over there? Sounds like they might be avoiding you pal.

Asked him to do this earlier, but its tricky to get there with a bus full of school kids or when I'm 30 miles away in a customer's car...!

In fairness to them, they rang off a landline this time to the mechanic and their phone signal is poor, but they would have picked up my last message days ago saying what I'd done.

[mender]

After messing you about now, offer to buy the car back for £500 as a take it or leave it deal, if they refuse, tell them to do one, or you will bill them for your wasted time, then set your dog on them, and never buy another Ka.

Thing is I like the Ka and they are popular, but I am tiring of the whole set up; it wouldn't be so bad if each car was more money and I earned a decent living out of it, but I have a car on the side for quiet days to supplement my paint shop and bus driving, so at least I can do something useful, even if I only get a few pounds out of it, it keeps the valeter and mechanic in work too. Every pound helps and I work hard.

The flip side is that I bought another car yesterday with a glowing description, traveled to pick it up and the home dealer will not contribute anything to the fact it has no second gear and the sump leaked two litres of oil in the 35 mile journey home; both major faults not described. He is now ignoring all contact so I have to bear the cost. Typical.

[Evil]

Rough month dude...

 

I hate buying a car these days, all those little undisclosed niggles that are going to bite me on the arse and leave me on the hard shoulder waiting for a breakdown service.

 

Was over that crap 20 years ago.

Edited 10 March, 2016 by Evil

[Mr Grumpy]

I have bought a couple of Kas' for the daughter in the past, and to me and for her they were a cheap 'learn to drive' car, they did their job, taught her how do drive and fell to bits...she badly bumped one, and the other disintegrated...I used to buy and sell, but now just can't do with the hassle. personally I would stick to Japanese, i.e. Micras, and /or VAG diesels, either bodywork repairs, or cheap part fixes. I appreciate peoples circumstances are different, but for less than a grand, that is definately  banger territory. When I was learning to drive, I either had my mums Opel Kadett, or my instructors Talbot Sunbeam....hey, I passed my test, heavy steering, or just a sh!t car, it didn't make a difference, although the Kadett was passed down and lasted over 20 years.

 Crack on fella, best of luck.

[cheezemonkhai]

Get the mechanic to tell them it was £80 for the fluid change and bleed, then say you're contributing half?

[Outofthi5world]

Just tell them to shut the **** up and sod off. I think you've been way too nice and this isn't your first time being too nice and being bitten if I remember right, you can't let them get away with everything or next thing you'll be putting more into the car than you sold it for.

[mender]

Well, finally got through to the chap who was somewhat breathless and stressed, apparently had emergency job on and was supposed to collect Ka himself at 1230 but had ro ask wife to but she could not get away from work.

Explained all that had been done:

Strut mounts/bearings supplied and fitted

UV steering joint lubricated repeatedly

Heater control panel fault diagnosed with multi-meter after dismantling

Heater control panel supplied and fitted

Brake light bulb changed

Brake fluid replaced/bled (at £40 cost to them)

Multiple road tests

Second opinion from Kwik-Fit manager who said steering on Kas does not centralise like most cars even when tracking perfect and found two front tyres at different pressures and sorted that which also helped

He was fairly chatty, said "cheers" and would collect asap then ring me after.....

May turn out right in the end.....

[Mr Grumpy]

Well, finally got through to the chap who was somewhat breathless and stressed, apparently had emergency job on and was supposed to collect Ka himself at 1230 but had ro ask wife to but she could not get away from work.

Explained all that had been done:

Strut mounts/bearings supplied and fitted

UV steering joint lubricated repeatedly

Heater control panel fault diagnosed with multi-meter after dismantling

Heater control panel supplied and fitted

Brake light bulb changed

Brake fluid replaced/bled (at £40 cost to them)

Multiple road tests

Second opinion from Kwik-Fit manager who said steering on Kas does not centralise like most cars even when tracking perfect and found two front tyres at different pressures and sorted that which also helped

He was fairly chatty, said "cheers" and would collect asap then ring me after.....

May turn out right in the end.....

I would still offer to buy it back...with no comeback, and then you have covered your back. ( too many backs there, but you get my drift..)

 If you are certain it is a good car, you will sell it again.

[mender]

I would still offer to buy it back...with no comeback, and then you have covered your back. ( too many backs there, but you get my drift..)

 If you are certain it is a good car, you will sell it again.

It was a damn good car, now a damn good car with loads of new bits too!

Has been collected and she paid the £40, mechanic texted all ok

Not phoned me yet though.....

[brad1.8T]

You might also explain to them that learning to drive on a less than fantastic vehicle isn't a bad thing.

 

I know my wife (45kg & 5'3") learnt to drive with a 1970s era Holden Kingswood station wagon.  It was a big old, rolly, polly land yacht (go up a size or two from a Granada or a Victor).  It had no power steering (about 5 turns lock-to-lock), crossply tyres and brakes that were marginal at best.  Anything after that was easy to drive.

[mender]

You might also explain to them that learning to drive on a less than fantastic vehicle isn't a bad thing.

 

I know my wife (45kg & 5'3") learnt to drive with a 1970s era Holden Kingswood station wagon.  It was a big old, rolly, polly land yacht (go up a size or two from a Granada or a Victor).  It had no power steering (about 5 turns lock-to-lock), crossply tyres and brakes that were marginal at best.  Anything after that was easy to drive.

Really good point, that. Many of us learned in the days before ABS and ESP, some before power steering and conversely some have learned with it and yet some don't understand how it works and how cars differ in characteristics.

I always assess a car before driving it (I drive many a week with my business) and look for which wheels are driven, what electronic systems it has (TC, ESP, ABS, S/S etc) before driving away. You drive a rwd car in a different manner to a fwd car in bad conditions, likewise a car with ESP or not.

I have to do 35 hours CPC training (hopeless as it is!) every 5 years to keep my coach licence and this does help with new tech if the course is chosen well. Shame there is not the same for car drivers (albeit a better and more organised CPC set up than exists now).

Edited 15 March, 2016 by mender

[Ootohere]

It looks like the car needed quite a bit doing to it still even if it was cheap and Sold as Seen. 

Checking and setting tyre pressures would have been a smart move, as would checking the car was still to the standard that it past the MOT at such a short period before.

 

Hopefully all is well now.

Edited 15 March, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[GentleGiant]

Some people expect perfection for a Pound, and others are just pompous idiots.

 

I recently came across a one star review on Amazon, for a Samsung Tab4 tablet; in the review the woman complained that she thought the uSD slot was a SIM card slot and was upset when she tried to insert a SIM card at her holiday destination, and found it wouldnt work as a phone......

 

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