So the unnamed independent gets away with it, the owner/manager living in blissful ignorance and his "mechanics" continue to ferk up lots of other customers cars possibly briskoda members too. A cross threaded sump plug is such a rudimentary  cockup that simply should never happen, the mechanic should not be allowed near a car, ever.

 

The advantage of using the same dealer/independent for servicing is there's no argument about things like this. A Skoda dealer would not argue especially as all work/genuine parts are covered by a 2 year unlimited warranty, in this case fitting a new sump plug.

 

I sincerely hope you don't plan to use the same outfit again.

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by xman

It was a local independent garage in North Shields.  I'd rather not name them, no idea if they read this forum etc. ha.  I'll fit it myself, and it's liquid sealant type as far as I can tell.

Is this the same garage that changed your gearbox oil & used the wrong stuff?

So the unnamed independent gets away with it, the owner/manager living in blissful ignorance and his "mechanics" continue to ferk up lots of other customers cars possibly briskoda members too. A cross threaded sump plug is such a rudimentary  cockup that simply should never happen, the mechanic should not be allowed near a car, ever.

 

The advantage of using the same dealer/independent for servicing is there's no argument about things like this. A Skoda dealer would not argue especially as all work/genuine parts are covered by a 2 year unlimited warranty, in this case fitting a new sump plug.

 

I sincerely hope you don't plan to use the same outfit again.

 

I agree, but I can't be 100% sure it was them. Who's the say the mechanic at the other garage I went to last week to investigate an idling fault didn't do it? OK that's highly unlikely, but for a £50 part it's not worth the hassle. I won't be mate; I had a similar issue with them recently regarding gearbox oil. I asked them to change it as the car was nearing 70k.  Afterwards gear changes were very stiff on cold.  Won't be going back to be honest.

 

 

Is this the same garage that changed your gearbox oil & used the wrong stuff?

 

That's them aye.  Will have been done at the same time, I've just only noticed the oil leak now.

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

Right, sump pan is in my cart, ready to order. Just going to have it ready even if it turns out the threads are fine.  What is the part# for the VW sump plug and washer? Also, will the pan come with sealant or will I need to source that separately?  How much luck do I have doing this on my back with the car on axle stands?

Right, sump pan is in my cart, ready to order. Just going to have it ready even if it turns out the threads are fine.  What is the part# for the VW sump plug and washer? Also, will the pan come with sealant or will I need to source that separately?  How much luck do I have doing this on my back with the car on axle stands?

 

Just checking this is the correct part. I suspect that it's aftermarket but is that necessarily a problem as long as it fits and seals perfectly?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-SKODA-VW-ENGINE-OIL-SUMP-PAN-1-8-2-0-TSI-TFSI-FSI-PETROL-/141663529500?hash=item20fbcdea1c:g:VO4AAMXQkK1R5AIp

 

And should I just stick with this stuff?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Castrol-EDGE-Titanium-FST-5W-30-LL-Full-Synthetic-Engine-Oil-4L-Litres-/162002735890?hash=item25b81d9312:g:J0oAAOSwgyxWUlLi

Edited 14 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

So the plot thickens... Had a colleague look at it in his garage at work, and he said that the bolt was loose so he tightened it up. Got home, took the under tray off so I could put cardboard under over night, and immediately I could see it wasn't fixed. Fresh pool of oil on it,and it's now dripping even faster... Oil is definitely coming out at the washer...

Looking at the markings on the head I would say that's a bolt with a washer. The "8.8" is a standard bolt strength designation...

 

 Yes, 8.8 refers to the shear strength - that's a standard carbon steel bolt or set screw.  A genuine sump plug will be stamped KKB (made by Keller & Kalmbach).

The 8.8 was on another bolt. Please forget about that as it was an image I didn't mean to attach to the post.

What do folks think my best course of action is? New sump pan at about £150 with sealant, or have new threads tapped and a larger bolt fitted?

Right, I'm off to TPS tomorrow to get a new plug and washers.  Can anyone confirm the part number for me please?

 

Also, I've got a brand new magnetic parts dish currently sat under the car collecting the oil drips from the bolt.  Am I OK to reuse this?

Right, I'm off to TPS tomorrow to get a new plug and washers. Can anyone confirm the part number for me please?

Also, I've got a brand new magnetic parts dish currently sat under the car collecting the oil drips from the bolt. Am I OK to reuse this?

Sump plugs are common across pretty much all vag engines. If the person at tps doesn't know the part number I'd be surprised.

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk

Just a thought: If the new plug is still loose then you might try using plumbers PTFE thread sealing tape on the new plug. Keep the tape at the head end of the plug and check the length of the thread in the sump hole. Don't go beyond this as you don't want loose slithers of PTFE tape floating about in the sump oil.

 

Or try this:http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797876355073 (don't know if its temperature range is sufficient 149 deg c)

Edited 14 March, 201610 yr by xman

Just a thought: If the new plug is still loose then you might try using plumbers PTFE thread sealing tape on the new plug. Keep the tape at the head end of the plug and check the length of the thread in the sump hole. Don't go beyond this as you don't want loose slithers of PTFE tape floating about in the sump oil.

 

Or try this:http://www.na.henkel-adhesives.com/product-search-1554.htm?nodeid=8797876355073 (don't know if its temperature range is sufficient 149 deg c)

 

Cheers. I'll get a new bolt tomorrow, and test it again over night. I'll leave it to thoroughly drain for 30 mins then clean inspect the threads as best I can.  If it's still leaking, I'll try the PTFE tape. Failing that, I guess it's new sump pan time.

 

The fun part is going to be draining the sump with the car only 12" off the deck on axle stands ha!

Edited 14 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

Its probably been overtightened, pulled the threads and is close to stripping them in the softer aluminium sump. So be very careful and don't be tempted to overtighten the new bolt. Its specced at 30nm but I wouldn't go over 25nm. Your colleague may have damaged the sump thread further if he tightened it too much. Some vag sump bolts are longer than others maybe someone's fitted a short one instead of the longer type (about 4mm longer iirc)

Edited 14 March, 201610 yr by xman

Just had a couple of thought about this.

First thought. I'm not sure, but the genuine KKB sump plug may well have a self-locking thread, like you used to get on the old Ford tappet adjusters. If this is the case, then a re-tap and a standard bolt (with a standard thread) might tend to shake lose.

Second thought. If you go for a new/second hand pan, you'll need special silicone sealant round the edge of it and will have to lay this on and fix the pan on quickly before the sealant sets. Too much sealant, which will escape into the oil and bung up the oil galleries, or too little which will cause oil leaks around the edge of the pan, are both bad. Tightening the retaining bolts can also be tricky - you will need to do them in the correct sequence and to the correct torque to avoid distorting the pan. In all, it's a job for the experienced mechanic - or the brave DIYer.

When doing an oil change, the sump plug seat and the washer/bolt head need to be SCRUPLOUSLY clean; any bits of swarf or dirt and you'll have trouble getting a good seal. A new bolt/washer, cheap enough too, and a really good clean up of the seat on the sump before fitting are good practice.

Let us know how you get on, and how you solve it - this could happen to any of us.

Now its been mentioned, the one KKB plug I've bought had a thin green dye type coating on it. Possibly some loctite type threadlock? I think its been mentioned elsewhere (possibly by Tech1e)  but I seem to think that was in relation to stretch bolts.

Its probably been overtightened, pulled the threads and is close to stripping them in the softer aluminium sump. So be very careful and don't be tempted to overtighten the new bolt. Its specced at 30nm but I wouldn't go over 25nm. Your colleague may have damaged the sump thread further if he tightened it too much. Some vag sump bolts are longer than others maybe someone's fitted a short one instead of the longer type (about 4mm longer iirc)

 

Yeah that's what I'm thinking now. It has definitely gotten worse after he tightened it.  The sump pan is steel from what I can tell. There is rust on it so I doubt it's aluminium after all.  I'm going to TPS tomorrow to get the right bolt, so I'll just have to carefully drain and refit it.

 

Just had a couple of thought about this.

First thought. I'm not sure, but the genuine KKB sump plug may well have a self-locking thread, like you used to get on the old Ford tappet adjusters. If this is the case, then a re-tap and a standard bolt (with a standard thread) might tend to shake lose.

Second thought. If you go for a new/second hand pan, you'll need special silicone sealant round the edge of it and will have to lay this on and fix the pan on quickly before the sealant sets. Too much sealant, which will escape into the oil and bung up the oil galleries, or too little which will cause oil leaks around the edge of the pan, are both bad. Tightening the retaining bolts can also be tricky - you will need to do them in the correct sequence and to the correct torque to avoid distorting the pan. In all, it's a job for the experienced mechanic - or the brave DIYer.

When doing an oil change, the sump plug seat and the washer/bolt head need to be SCRUPLOUSLY clean; any bits of swarf or dirt and you'll have trouble getting a good seal. A new bolt/washer, cheap enough too, and a really good clean up of the seat on the sump before fitting are good practice.

Let us know how you get on, and how you solve it - this could happen to any of us.

Thanks, I'm confident with the right instructions etc I can do it.  I'm used to tightenting things in star patterns etc from large, expensive RC helis, so I understand the importance of getting the load equalised around the parts.

 

Now its been mentioned, the one KKB plug I've bought had a thin green dye type coating on it. Possibly some loctite type threadlock? I think its been mentioned elsewhere (possibly by Tech1e)  but I seem to think that was in relation to stretch bolts.

 

If it's green it's often a retaining fluid, rather than loctite.  Green is often used to retain bearings in housings in the RC world at least.

Just double checking this is the right bolt? I went to my local VW dealer for it.

 

 

That looks like the one i use on mine,mine is a TFSI though but im sure they are all the same.

Also, I've got a brand new magnetic parts dish currently sat under the car collecting the oil drips from the bolt.  Am I OK to reuse this?

 

Really?  you want to re-use the oil?

 

Something doesn't add up here.  You're prepared to change the sump yourself, but then ask about recycling oil which has dripped out of the car.  I'll use that oil on my chainsaw chain or hedge trimmer, but not back in my car!

 

Hope you get it sorted, either DIY or at a trustworthy garage.  Good luck 

Really?  you want to re-use the oil?

 

Something doesn't add up here.  You're prepared to change the sump yourself, but then ask about recycling oil which has dripped out of the car.  I'll use that oil on my chainsaw chain or hedge trimmer, but not back in my car!

 

Hope you get it sorted, either DIY or at a trustworthy garage.  Good luck 

 

Hi mate. Yeah simply because last night I had no idea how much oil was goin to drip, and I had to use the car for work. I've got 4L new oil on order already. It's fair enough for you to think that mate I've got the technical mind that I work out and follow instructions well to replace parts, but I haven't got the experience of other things you'd pick up in the workplace or trade etc. But, I'm learning

 

Anyways , update.  The new bolt has been purchased and when we went to fit it, it was clear the threads are damaged in the sump (likelihood is overtightened by a garage) and the one use washer had clearly been reused (see images). The new bolt, although the same thread and width as the old one, was a loose fit. Once the oil was completely drained and we could inspect the threads, it's clear they're damaged.

 

The two images show the washer on its own and fitted around the new bolt for comparison. I'm well aware these are designed to squish and distort to form a seal but it's clear this is well knackered.  New sump pan it is :(

Edited 15 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

There is an alternative sump plug availabe from Skoda/other VAG dealers/TPS - #N91167901. Torx (T45?) head, much shorter and comes with a crush washer. I recall something about the original hex head bolts and flat washers being known to leak in some applications after they've been used. I believe the paint in the sump threads gets scraped out after a few oil changes allowing oil to pass, plus the flat aluminium washer doesn't seal against the mating face particularly well, especially if re-used. The crush washer on the T45 has a better chance of forming a perfect seal on the face of the sump drain hole, even if oil is getting past the bolt threads.

 

If you are dropping the oil and trying a new plug, it is probably worth switching to this.

 

 

Search on the part number, you'll find a few comments about this issue, eg;

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33060&page=6

 

 

EDIT: Only just seen your update so this isn't going to help! But I'll leave it here, others with smaller leaks after an oil change may want to try these. I've always replaced at least the washer on any car I've serviced and don't tend to have any problems.

Edited 15 March, 201610 yr by simion_levi

Wow!! Grossly overtightened, that's a steel washer too iirc. The KKB plug I am holding at the moment has a round shoulder under the hex head, so it looks as if that one in the picture is not an oe part

 

Unless you think your collegue did that then I really think you should definitely name and shame the garage to protect our members in the area!

 

Good luck with the tape, if that don't work then you might be better off epoxying in the new bolt.

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/adhesives/evo-stik-hard-fast-metal-epoxy-putty

 

That'll keep you going for another service interval, then you can using an oil extractor or.....

 

If your feeling really handy you could epoxy in an oil drain valve such as this 

 

http://www.ezoildrainvalve.com

 

Others avaible on fleabay......

Edited 15 March, 201610 yr by xman

Wow!! Grossly overtightened, that's a steel washer too iirc.

 

Unless you think your collegue did that then I really think you should definitely name and shame the garage to protect our members in the area!

 

Good luck with the tape, if that don't work then you might be better off epoxying in the new bolt.

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/paints-body-repair/adhesives/evo-stik-hard-fast-metal-epoxy-putty

 

That'll keep you going for another service interval, then you can using an oil extractor or.....

 

If your feeling really handy you could epoxy in an oil drain valve such as this 

 

http://www.ezoildrainvalve.com

 

Others avaible on fleabay......

 

Well now I have no idea who did it tbh. I think the damage was already done as seen by the oil leak before my colleague even looked at it.  However, when he put the bolt back in ready to refit the oil, he did REALLY crank down on it, but I didn't dare say anything as I figured he knew more than I did.  I thought that once the bolt was snug, it only needed a half turn; ie about the same as a spark plug? Either way, it was clear that the threads were damaged before this point, so I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy a new pan. I'd rather it was just done and fitted like OEM.

Which sealant should I use? I've been told the VW stuff cures very quickly and is also quite expensive at £38 for a tube.  Which would you recommend?

Sealant? What sealant? If youre talking new sump pan to block you best stick with the recommended stuff. From what I've seen its really a job for an expert with car up high on a ramp.

But why not try the tape first? Wrap a fair bit round the bolt, maybe 15 to 20 times and see how she fits. Ptfe tape is cheap and its high temperature too. And failing that just epoxy the bolt in.

Edited 15 March, 201610 yr by xman