Have skoda reduced the Front brake disc size on new VRS's?

[VRS1878]

What's everyones take on this statement from the back of the brochure? It's the last line I'm interested in where it states your Skoda dealer will be notified of changes to specs, prices and colour availability as they occur, clearly this hasn't been the case here?????

[pipsyp]

Be a cost saving exercise and perhaps a step to further differentiate the 230 from regular vRS's?

I expect VAG will be doing everything now to try and reign back some of the losses dieselgate has thrusted upon them....the budget brands will be worse hit.

[FlyingGecko]

What's everyones take on this statement from the back of the brochure? It's the last line I'm interested in where it states your Skoda dealer will be notified of changes to specs, prices and colour availability as they occur, clearly this hasn't been the case here?????

 

 

 

As I mentioned above, no published specifications refer to disc size.

[Dave2912]

Photo of the front brakes on my new today vRS TSI 220. I assume this is the larger variant?

Edited 18 April, 2016 by Dave2912

[ToffeeMRD]

If you have ever lifted one of those 340mm disks you will see why!! they are notoriously heavy. That is a huge increase in weight from the 312s as the 340s are wider as well as larger diameter (30mm as opposed to 25mm) and it is unsprung weight too. That is a lot of rotating mass to get turning, to stop and for the suspension to cope with.

Getting my new TDI vRS in June and this, for me, is a positive for the 312 discs over the 340 if they are indeed on all TDI models moving forward

Edited 18 April, 2016 by ToffeeMRD

[VRS1878]

Just trawled through the past five Octy brochures, from July 14 to April 16, and nowhere does it mention the size of brake discs in any specification. Nor does it mention brake disc size on the Skoda website, nor anywhere in the online car configurator. Has anyone seen it in any of Skoda's material other than in the spares lists? Has anyone got the size of the brake discs included in the specification of their new car order/contract with their dealer?

(The only reference to brake disc specification is in the online configurator - for the 1.8 L&K and all vRS models, in the configurator summary, it shows their rear discs are "Geomet D". This is a coating primarily designed to reduce corrosion and maintain the disc's appearance. Lesser models don't show this.)

While the newer discs may be smaller, if they do the same job within the the same safety parameters, then where's the downgrade? Where's any reason to get annoyed, apart from losing out in a willy-waving competition with a bigger-disc'd model?

Anyone who thinks they have a case of misrepresentation, and/or that they can demand that larger discs are fitted, then I wish them luck.

I think the fact that both VW and Seat charge extra for this set up as part of "upgraded" packages over the 312mm set means it's totally acceptable to class it as a down grade, nobody anywhere has said they think the brakes aren't up to the job, they're just not as good as the ones previously fitted that people like myself thought they were getting when I ordered and paid for the car. It's got nothing to do with "Willy waving" it's about getting what you thought you'd paid for. Edited 18 April, 2016 by VRS1878

[Mallettsmallett]

First World problems.

[AirborneVRS]

I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind this.

Yes, I know the TSI has a higher top speed (by 10mph) and gets to 62mph faster but the TDI is heavier and goes fast enough.

I also understand that the 340mm brakes weigh more (adding further weight to the front of the TDI).

My question is:

1. Do the 312mm brakes stop the car sufficiently compared to the 340mm brakes (taking in to account weight, power, rotational mass)?

2. Will the 340m brakes make any real world difference on fuel economy, top speed/acceleration, handling compared to the 312mm brakes?

3. If I was expecting 340mm brakes and my 2016 vRS TDI has 312mm brakes, am I being awkward to voice my concern with my dealer and would it be to my benefit to see if I can get them swapped?

Thanks.

[flybynite]

I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind this.

Yes, I know the TSI has a higher top speed (by 10mph) and gets to 62mph faster but the TDI is heavier and goes fast enough.

I also understand that the 340mm brakes weigh more (adding further weight to the front of the TDI).

My question is:

1. Do the 312mm brakes stop the car sufficiently compared to the 340mm brakes (taking in to account weight, power, rotational mass)?

2. Will the 340m brakes make any real world difference on fuel economy, top speed/acceleration, handling compared to the 312mm brakes?

3. If I was expecting 340mm brakes and my 2016 vRS TDI has 312mm brakes, am I being awkward to voice my concern with my dealer and would it be to my benefit to see if I can get them swapped?

Thanks.

1. Yes they do, they are fitted to the 1.8 TSi and Golf GTi/GTD amongst others and work fine for all normal road use. The extra weight of the diesel is academic when you consider what you can add to the boot and passenger seats.

2. You may feel the front less crashy over bad roads with the lighter brakes, there may be a marginal gain but again it will be swamped by your driving style on the day. May be more evident in the lab which may be the reason they did it in the first place

3. Unless you asked the question or it is written in the advertising then you have a thin case, a lot will depend on the dealer and their good will. Unless you do track days, drive under blues and twos or are a very heavy braker and regularly overheat brakes (then just put better pads in) then I would leave well alone as the bias of the brakes may have been set for that size. That is unless you really cannot stand the gap between the disk and the wheel then I am sure IbizaAlex could do you some nice 370mm disks!

[WI5847]

surfactant or not your not getting what you thought you was getting.. the 312 will do the job just fine but under consistent harsh braking they will be susceptible to brake fade a lot more than the 340's.. and also resale value will be hit.. when it comes down to it if you was buying a used vRS both had the same spec and milage but one had 340's and the other 312's which one would you go for ? Skoda should have put this has an optional extra like they do on the GTD & FR not just take it away completely.. I for one am very disappointed.. the fake exhaust tip was bad enough and now this! if i had found this out earlier then I defiantly wouldn't of have ordered the the vRS 4x4 and got the A3 5door Quattro...   

[SC03OTT]

Resale will be hit? Um, no. It won't.

[VRS1878]

I'm not after them being replaced or anything, in the very unlikely event that was to be offered I'd probably refuse it, I'm completely happy the brakes are up to the job (obviously a different story if in time its proved they're not though). My main points are, and my dealer fully supports me on this -

1. This is a significant spec change therefore we should have been told/warned there was about to be a change.

2. Why was the change made and why is the tdi affected not the tsi when some may argue the weight of the tdi is enough to justify the bigger set up.

3. Why wasn't such a significant cost change reflected in the list price and as stated above in 3yrs when my car is to trade in/sell will it be worth less than an equivalent spec model that cost the same new but has the "bigger and better" brakes?

4. I want confirmation this is a permanent thing not just a stop gap solution to a part supply issue. If permanent why has it not been offered as an option, like above its a bit crap to take it away all together.

[AirborneVRS]

1. Yes they do, they are fitted to the 1.8 TSi and Golf GTi/GTD amongst others and work fine for all normal road use. The extra weight of the diesel is academic when you consider what you can add to the boot and passenger seats.

2. You may feel the front less crashy over bad roads with the lighter brakes, there may be a marginal gain but again it will be swamped by your driving style on the day. May be more evident in the lab which may be the reason they did it in the first place

3. Unless you asked the question or it is written in the advertising then you have a thin case, a lot will depend on the dealer and their good will. Unless you do track days, drive under blues and twos or are a very heavy braker and regularly overheat brakes (then just put better pads in) then I would leave well alone as the bias of the brakes may have been set for that size. That is unless you really cannot stand the gap between the disk and the wheel then I am sure IbizaAlex could do you some nice 370mm disks!

That's good to know. As long as the brakes are up to the spec and will stop my car correctly and within the desired distance should the need arise. If not, then we have a problem.

On your point of "just put better pads in" - surely if this is required/advised/suggested then the car should come as standard with better pads for the 312mm or alternatively, this is a simple reason it initially came with 340mm disks? Why should I spend more money to upgrade my brakes when I initially expected to get a sufficient product initially (as I've already paid for the product and not received it, if fitting "better pads" is required).

P.s. I'm not really fussed about the gap.

I'm not after them being replaced or anything, in the very unlikely event that was to be offered I'd probably refuse it, I'm completely happy the brakes are up to the job (obviously a different story if in time its proved they're not though). My main points are, and my dealer fully supports me on this -

1. This is a significant spec change therefore we should have been told/warned there was about to be a change.

2. Why was the change made and why is the tdi affected not the tsi when some may argue the weight of the tdi is enough to justify the bigger set up.

3. Why wasn't such a significant cost change reflected in the list price and as stated above in 3yrs when my car is to trade in/sell will it be worth less than an equivalent spec model that cost the same new but has the "bigger and better" brakes?

4. I want confirmation this is a permanent thing not just a stop gap solution to a part supply issue. If permanent why has it not been offered as an option, like above its a bit crap to take it away all together.

I agree. Seems a bit cr*p to just adjust a vital part of the safety system without warning. I know they don't have too and the small print says "subject to change" before anyone jumps in. It just a bit crappy.

Its not down to whether the brakes work of not, I'm sure they do a good job but the principle behind it.

I paid for what was advertised under the belief I was getting that. There was no mention that the TDI gets smaller brakes than the TSI and if it's a recent thing why haven't all cars been given smaller brakes? Seems to alienate the TDI and possibly cause Skoda/VW to receive letters asking for compensation as I'm sure it cannot be justified that the TSI really require the bigger brakes more.

Additionally, if I known this prior, then I possibly would have purchased a TSI or the 230.

Regarding list price - if I plan on giving the car back at the end of my term, then I'll be expecting the same money as if it had the full original spec.

I will of course, be contacting my dealer to notify them of this news and lodge a complaint with them so they are aware of the change should anything happen in the future.

[pist0nbr0ke]

If I'm being honest, I probably wouldn't have have been any the wiser if I hadn't seen this thread - I suspect a few others wouldn't either  :p

 

My last two VRS TDI's were both Mk2's and therefore supposedly heavier cars to start with, both were remapped and I never had any issues with the standard 312mm discs...and whilst I don't do trackdays, I drive *cough* progressively :|

 

I do think they won't look quite so good - behind the 19's especially - but on the plus side I'll be able to get my hand between the discs and inside of the wheels to wash them without taking my b****y knuckles off every time! 

 

Yes I do think it's a bit sneaky of Skoda, but realistically how would they have informed everyone in the whole wide world? They were hardly going to advertise it in the national media...

 

Of course, if Skoda have made a balls up and fitted the wrong ones (which is highly unlikely IMHO) I'm happy to have the bigger discs fitted. (If mine is even delivered with the 312's.)

 

In summary, no ones going to die, and even less likely is the chances of anyone getting 'compensation'. 

[AirborneVRS]

Flybynite - just re-rear ur post. I don't race my car so shouldn't be under heavy braking which I what you suggested with better pads.

My point still stands that should this be required, then it should be equipped for needs and if the original brakes are suitable then I'd be annoyed if they had been replaced.

On another note - what about wearing out? Surely the small discs and pads will take more of a beating compared to the larger ones. This will mean that they wear down quicker, on the basis that I purchased a car with 340mm brakes (as advertised) and it comes with 312mm and when they are due for replacement, am I going to be asking Skoda to contribute (due to a possible lack of supply or cost cutting exercise)? Damn right, I am.

[SC03OTT]

Where were the 340mm discs advertised?

And asking for running cost contributions? It's getting a bit Daily Mail hysteria in here now.

[VRS1878]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I've just talked to a lad at VW, he's just given me identical prices for the std gti 312mm set up and the 340mm performance pack brakes, calipers, discs and pads come in at £566.32, very odd in my opinion, can't understand that.

[Redboy]

I'd be interested to know the reasoning behind this.

Yes, I know the TSI has a higher top speed (by 10mph) and gets to 62mph faster but the TDI is heavier and goes fast enough.

I also understand that the 340mm brakes weigh more (adding further weight to the front of the TDI).

My question is:

1. Do the 312mm brakes stop the car sufficiently compared to the 340mm brakes (taking in to account weight, power, rotational mass)?

2. Will the 340m brakes make any real world difference on fuel economy, top speed/acceleration, handling compared to the 312mm brakes?

3. If I was expecting 340mm brakes and my 2016 vRS TDI has 312mm brakes, am I being awkward to voice my concern with my dealer and would it be to my benefit to see if I can get them swapped?

Thanks.

1. Yes - if they didn't stop the car and were dangerous it would make the VW scandal seem more trivial than it is. What size are the TDI 150 brakes?

2. No

3. Yes

[AirborneVRS]

1. Yes - if they didn't stop the car and were dangerous it would make the VW scandal seem more trivial than it is. What size are the TDI 150 brakes?

2. No

3. Yes

Do you mean Yes it's awkward or Yes it should be mentioned?

Anyways, always nice to get a good debate going on.

I'm not really fussed as long as the car performs to specification and is safe. I'm very happy with my car.

[WI5847]

I'm currently in comunictions with Skoda UK.. They are unaware of such a change to the car had have launched an internal investigation and will contact me with any developments.. Will keep you all posted

[colruddock]

Morning All....

 

A new boy here.

 

I picked up my TDI vRS last Friday, mine came with the 312's too.

 

Order was placed January, not sure about the build date (can you check that anywhere with the VIN?), seems to be a recent spec swap with some TDI's still being available MY16 with the 340's (old stock maybe?)

 

Purely for willy waving and aesthetics I would have preferred the 340's, but that's about it

[SimonD316]

My 16 plate TDi VRS was fromdealer stock, and from what I can tell was it was built November 2015.

 

I measured the front disk thickness at 30mm so based on a previous post I think these will be the 340mm disks.

 

On the plus side, when cleaning the wheels with the 340's my large wheel woolie is a tight fit, so I imagine it will be much easier with the 312's.

[marcholloway]

Contacted Skoda Uk today and raised the question also. They are completely unaware of the change to the car or the spec!!

Seems a little odd they don't know themselves.

[flybynite]

Flybynite - just re-rear ur post. I don't race my car so shouldn't be under heavy braking which I what you suggested with better pads.

My point still stands that should this be required, then it should be equipped for needs and if the original brakes are suitable then I'd be annoyed if they had been replaced.

On another note - what about wearing out? Surely the small discs and pads will take more of a beating compared to the larger ones. This will mean that they wear down quicker, on the basis that I purchased a car with 340mm brakes (as advertised) and it comes with 312mm and when they are due for replacement, am I going to be asking Skoda to contribute (due to a possible lack of supply or cost cutting exercise)? Damn right, I am.

There are people better able to comment on this than me but when I said "better" I should have said "different". If you load your car to the max, push on, and are the type that are always on the brakes then you may benefit from a 'hotter' pad. They will not fit this as standard because they are worse when cold and under gentle braking and as not everyone drives like the above they go with the best fit. That goes for the disk too although the 340s might take more heat they take more heating. As ever horses for courses. Around this size most manufacturers go for 4-pot calipers (Leon Cupra) as large diameter disks with single pot calipers do not perform that well in general but I can't see Skoda doing that any time soon.

As I said if it were mine I would be having words but if you did not specifically ask the question or it was detailed in their advertised spec then you are relying on goodwill (which can be a lot though) but whether I would be looking to change them would depend on what driving I did as I said it is not as clear cut as it first seems. The majority of Octys on the road are on 288mm front brakes,

[VRS1878]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons I've just talked to a lad at VW, he's just given me identical prices for the std gti 312mm set up and the 340mm performance pack brakes, calipers, discs and pads come in at £566.32, very odd in my opinion, can't understand that.

Correction to this, the lad at VW has just called back, the 340mm set up comes in at £840 so there's quite a price difference.