Power Steering Fluid Lid Stuck

[lopas]

The power steering has been dropping out for the past few days on my 07 Fabia 1.4 diesel. I decided to check the PAS fluid level after reading Tech1e's excellent post on the possible issues with PAS on the Fabia. I don't have VAGCOM at home.

 

Anyone who has tried this will know that the power assisted steering fluid reservoir is located underneath the battery! You can just about see the green lid under the battery plate on this photo. You can see the reservoir and pump on the right on this photo (photos from previous threads).

 

The PAS lid is a fluted one in my case. It is stuck fast and I can't move it, neither could anyone else I asked to try. There is no room to get a spanner or similar down there to assist as the reservoir is inset. Does anyone know of a device that would grip the lid and increase the leverage so that I can open it? The device would have to be vertical rather than the usual jar opener which is horizontal (if you see what I mean).

 

The PAS symptoms include -

PAS warning light comes on after 15-20 mins driving and PAS is lost

Headlights dim when the steering wheel is turned

No PAS and warning light comes on if car left for 4-5 hours, but then PAS works after 1 - 2 mins driving

[sepulchrave]

Sounds battery or charging related rather than fluid levels. Check your battery voltage before and after starting the car.

[Tech1e]

On the ones that are tight I just use regular slip joint pliers.

[Breezy_Pete]

I tend to agree with sepulchrave; but if you're determined to get the cap off you can probably make it do-able by hand if you warm it up with some very carefully applied warm air from a hairdryer. It will melt if you're not careful enough though.

[lopas]

I checked the voltage on the battery:

Before starting 12.4 - 12.6V

After starting 14.3V

After starting with rear de-mister and headlights on 14.3V

 

The battery is 61A Varta. It has a little window that says replace battery if showing clear or yellow. It is showing clear, but the readings look OK. I have an aversion to changing the battery as I did that a few times when I had problems with the electrics in the Felcia, but the cause was always the alternator(s).

 

I tried to use pliers to turn the lid, but they were slipping off because they were at 30-45° What I need are pliers with a large adjustable jaw and short handle. Not a common combination! I was hoping there was a device that had something like a ship's steering wheel attached to a shaft that would grip the lid.

 

I don't have a hair drier, but I do have a paint stripper. Hm... That may be too much power!

[Breezy_Pete]

See whether the battery light comes on when you turn on the ignition. It should. If it doesn't your alternator may not start up reliably (but will show OK readings when it does).

There's a common fault where the (blue) wire that 'boots up' the alternator snaps at a connector on a bracket on the front of the gearbox; well worth checking this out before spending on anything.

Edited 24 April, 2016 by Wino

[lopas]

Battery light comes on when ignition turned and then goes off when engine starts.

 

I'll check the alternator wiring tonight.

[sepulchrave]

Your voltages look ok, however I strongly suspect the battery may be unable to supply enough current to run the power steering after starting the engine, once the engines been running a while the alternator has put enough charge back into it to allow the power steering to 'reboot', if you read the codes with VCDS I'm certain you'd see low voltage warnings in various modules which would confirm that the battery needs replacing.

[Tech1e]

Also worth comparing voltage across the battery terminals and from positive terminal to chassis earth.

[Breezy_Pete]

Could you swap batteries with another car you might own, as an experiment?

[rum4mo]

The one and only time that I ever overtightened that top, on a petrol engine Polo - so easier to get to, I found a used radiator hose waiting for its moment in life and forced that down over the lid - then twisted it, worked a treat!

 

First tip, don't overtighten the power steering fluid reservoir lid, second tip, don't throw away old hoses just yet!

[sepulchrave]

The problem is that it REALLY isn't a fluid level issue, low fluid level leading to steering failure would be NOISY, loud sucking and gushing sounds would accompany the failure.

[Tech1e]

It more than likely isn't a fluid issue. However it's not bad practice to keep an eye on the level anyhow and you can't do that if the cap is wedged on.

[lopas]

I understand that if there were very low fluid then there should be considerable noise from the PAS pump, which I haven't experienced. The issue has resolved itself by leaving the car for 5 or so hours up until today. The PAS failed just before I parked at work and was also not working when I got into the car at the end of the day, it did not come back on as it had before so the drive home was a good upper body work out!

 

The situation up until today was that the PAS worked for 15-20 minutes after starting the car and then failed. Now it seems to be in a permanent fail state. I'll have a look at the wiring and check the voltages again as suggested.

 

I don't have another battery to cross reference with.

[sepulchrave]

Ok, I think the pump itself has probably failed then.

[lopas]

I took it to a car electrics place who have the VCDS etc.

 

It was the fuse for the power steering! There was no visible damage, so it would be unlikely that I would have worked that out myself. Luckily they carry them as a stock item.

 

It wasn't a cheap visit because of labour and the diagnostics, but the part was only £6! It needed recoding after fitting to get the PAS to work, apparently.

 

Another thing to check before spending money!

[Breezy_Pete]

Glad you've got it sorted, shame it cost you some dosh. Could've been worse though. 

The ABS strip fuse on the same busbar seems to crack (sometimes almost invisibly) too. My theory is that it's either vibration that kills them, or possibly uneven thermal expansion of the fuse compared to the plastic substrate the fusebox is made from.  Have you got the old fuse? If so, a close-up photo would be interesting if it appears to be intact?

Edited 26 April, 2016 by Wino

[lopas]

Sorry, I didn't think to ask for the old fuse. If there are 61A going through it I imagine it probably does get quite warm!

[Breezy_Pete]

There are a lot of claims about how much current the PAS pump uses. My logs suggest a 'quiescent' current when it's running, but not experiencing any demand because the steering wheel is straight, of about 3-4 amps. Peak active currents (low speed, fast turn-rate like parking manoeuvres) of around 20-50 amps, very, very briefly.  If you look for a long thread by dm222 about his PAS problems, you can see some scatter plots of mine and his controllers and how much/little current they really use. Most of the time, about the same as one headlight bulb.  Here's one of my logs, on a short local round-trip. You can see that most of the time the currents are very low.  The high current spikes are because it has to react very quickly to steering inputs (i.e. it has to 'spool up' with unnoticeable delay), rather than because there is a lot of energy being consumed.

 

When I mentioned thermal expansion, I was thinking of the engine bay temperature cycling, not the fuse temperature generated by the current through it.

Edited 27 April, 2016 by Wino

[VWD]

on the problem of getting the tight cap off, perhaps an old dodge nicked from the nautical fraternity might help/be worth trying. Loop of thin rope/cloth etc round cap and tightened with a screwdriver till tight and then pressure applied to cap to turn off. Used this successfully on many a tight oil filter.

As to the battery. Might be fallacy, but I thought 1.4tdi batteries were a lot more than 60 AH. But what might be an idea is to monitor vehicle voltage on a run and see if volts are low when steering problems occur .The figures given with lights and demister look OK,but a better test might be with engine running and EVERYTHING ON. Then with car stationery turn steering and see if volts drop.