Funny this thread turned up today...

On my way to work this morning had a play with one (standard Cooper S) on the motorway over here (Belgium) with quite a few longer uphilly bits (yes, Belgium has undulations...:P ), and we went up to high speed a few times. (I know, I know, will get shot down for irresponsible driving and so on ).

There was nothing in it - couldn't lose him, couldn't gain (we swapped places). My Vrs is boggo standard, just had 10k service.

The guy was shocked at the Furby and got a big thumbs up.

I think the uphill bits made the difference to my advantage.

In twisties am SURE the Cooper will win and also from standstill, but in real world driving, not much in it (but that's another discussion).

Happy 2006 to everyone !

Cooper S does 0-100 in 20+ seconds.

"Works" does 0-100 in 17.2 seconds.

A remapped Fabia would have a good chance of beating the S in a straight line' date=' and would not be hugely behind the Works.[/quote']

so a reasonable tuned vRS can hit 100mph in under 20 secs?

I've driven both Cooper S (163 bhp model) and Works (210 bhp model) and would say that my remapped Fabia felt faster than the Cooper S and marginally slower than the Works.

These are subjective impressions as I've not done side by side comparisons. I think the Mini does handle better even with my Eibachs but the difference is not night and day! Maybe it will be closer after I get my rear ARB fitted??

so a reasonable tuned vRS can hit 100mph in under 20 secs?

I would say 0-100 in 17-18 secs

but feelin faster and being faster are miles apart in terms of actual performance, the fabia will always feel faster due to its big torque. the cooper won't pull as hard due to the lower torque but what it will do is pull to 6.5k - 7k rpm where the fabia is dieing by 5k at the very latest.

in my plays with fabias i found they pulled just as hard and accelerated just as fast as me when in gear but they ran out of puff much earlier so i could carry on accelerating whilst they are changing gear and losing time/distance.

No.

No.

:iagree: !!!:P

Having been driven, and driven myself briskly in said cooper S would say it would be quicker due to figures already given... More power, less weight...

Gearing for a little car is awesome too.

0-45ish in 1st gear leaves furby standing probably changing to third!

However, 100MPH + the furb would claw is way back as cooper slows drastically at 110 due t small capacity... But those speeds aint gonna happen in real world too often...

the cooper S isn't modified' date=' or should we compare the cooper to a fabia sdi??

:P[/quote']

It should be NA "sporty" version against NA "sporty" version and likewise FI versus FI. So that'll be Sport against Cooper and vRS against Cooper S... But the Fabia wouldn't come out looking so good then, so it doesn't happen. But surely the real reason people buy "hot" hatches is the mpg...

I am sure there is someone on here who actually owned a cooper S and traded in for a furby vRS. All horses for courses though...

It should be NA "sporty" version against NA "sporty" version and likewise FI versus FI. So that'll be Sport against Cooper and vRS against Cooper S... But the Fabia wouldn't come out looking so good then, so it doesn't happen. But surely the real[/b'] reason people buy "hot" hatches is the mpg...

Sorry Slick,

If the Skoda marque was in the same price bracket as BMW / Mini, then the vRS as it stands would probably be called 'Sport'. There would be a vRS at £16k with modded suspension and 180 BHP.

But I would have said 'Top / 5th Gear' got it right. Similar NA BHP. So vRS / Cooper is about right. Cooper's handling against vRS extra torque. Price similar too.

Therefore, Cooper 'S' / re-mapped vRS (with Eibachs) would IMHO be about right. Even though in this case the vRS is still considerately cheaper.

vRS mpg (and 'Street-Cred') is just a bonus.

John. :P

street cred my donkey

street cred my donkey

Depends if you think wearing 'Burberry' and 'Mrs Guy Ritchie' are

John.:orb_lol:

I reckon the Fabia vRS does have street cred.

It's got chunky agressive styling and people know they're fairly quick and well built cars.

Anyway, my Fabia stands me at around 14.5k with the coilovers, remap, wheels, brakes, strutbraces, air filter etc, IC spray and tints. It's pretty quick, handles really well and is imho pretty good looking and fairly uncommon on the roads.

How much is a standard Cooper S? (that you see tonnes of every day: mostly driven by girls).

I reckon the Fabia vRS does have street cred.

It's got chunky agressive styling and people know they're fairly quick and well built cars.

Anyway' date=' my Fabia stands me at around 14.5k with the coilovers, remap, wheels, brakes, strutbraces, air filter etc, IC spray and tints. It's pretty quick, handles really well and is imho pretty good looking and fairly uncommon on the roads.

How much is a standard Cooper S? (that you see tonnes of every day: mostly driven by girls).[/quote']

And hairdresser's, who are a bit like girls, but with "winkies"

Sorry Slick,

If the Skoda marque was in the same price bracket as BMW / Mini, then the vRS as it stands would probably be called 'Sport'. There would be a vRS at

but feelin faster and being faster are miles apart in terms of actual performance' date=' the fabia will always feel faster due to its big torque. the cooper won't pull as hard due to the lower torque but what it will do is pull to 6.5k - 7k rpm where the fabia is dieing by 5k at the very latest.

in my plays with fabias i found they pulled just as hard and accelerated just as fast as me when in gear but they ran out of puff much earlier so i could carry on accelerating whilst they are changing gear and losing time/distance.[/quote']

Hmm, this is something that has puzzled me for a while, I've no experience of a Fabia VRs, but my Superb has the same engine, and I found the following to be true even before it was Dragoned.

I think the diesel running out of puff and having to change gears earlier is b*llox, the RPM an engine can rev to is largely irrelavant, it is the gearing that makes the difference - i've chased people in sporty cars and I can take a roundabout in 3rd gear, come off the roundabout surfing the torque and accelerate to rediculous speeds without changing gear once, whils listening to the petrol engined car infront screaming from 2nd into 3rd and then 4th While I almost ram them everytime they lift off to change gear, i've not changed once the whole time!!

I find this quite a lot, much less gear changing is required in diesels therefore the actaul RPM is irrelavant, you could re-label the rev counter so it says the red-line is 7k and if you couldnt hear the engine you wouldn't know any different as the gearing makes up for the lack of revs, think that makes sense

Dont wanna start a Diesel Vs Petrol debate but anyone else find that?

I agree with you John.... but the longer gearing reduces the effective torque at the wheels. Torque at the wheels can be calculated simply enough as long as you have the gear ratio data. Also, torque plots for the whole rev range are also useful if you want to calculate how much of the peak torque is available throughout the rev range.

Golf GTI is a good example - VAG quote 207 lb ft.... but thats not peak.... that is from 1600 - 5000 rpm!

I know for a fact the PD130 only produces peak torque for a very short time, i.e. between 2000 and 3000 rpm. The rest of the time its down noticably on torque.

That being said, I find talk of powerbands quite funny sometimes. With the diesel I found you were never far away from the 2000 rpm power band. Now I have a car that revs to 7000 but again it delivers most power between 5000-7000 so it still has a 2000 rpm peak power band. The power below that is acceptable for every day driving, but for FAST progress, you still have to be up there in the revs.

As for the "you cant compare a vRS to a cooper because the latter aint forced induction" - well thats quite a silly argument. They both have similar power to weight ratios, both cost a similar price, and are both warm hatches. If you are going to use that argument, then the only other cars you can compare them to is other diesels. Of course you can compare, why not?

Also having a blower on a petrol engine is obviously going to be more potent than a turbo on a diesel - the latter NEEDS a turbo to produce that much power, a petrol doesn't. So thats hardly a "fair" comparison either, but people conveniently seem to forget this.

Anyway, some cars dont need a turbo at all to get 180+ bhp from a 4 cylinder engine, so :P

Anyone see those tuned minis in Autoexpress? Some had upwards of £35,000 spent on tuning them (with little return looking at the figures).

i totally disagree that the rev range thing is rubbish as i have played with fabia's(from this site) and had to hold back and then boot again whilst they change gear as i am still pulling longer than them.

and john when you say quick petrol cars what are you talking about?? civic type R's? imprezza's? astra sri's??

saying 'petrol cars' is pretty vague

is wanting to compare NA to Na and FI to FI any less valid than hand picking the cars to compare to get the result you're after? it should be should be sportiest versus sportiest

if people really wanted to argue about petrol versus diesel, a fairer question to ask would probably be which is the quicker, a PD130 Ibiza FR or a 1.8T Ibiza FR...

Ah well, was going to start a new thread, but as I found this while snooping, thought I'd post here instead.

Was travelling home from Lornas today, and was driving really sensibly, bit of an "economy" run really. Was on the A43 approaching Northampton, in the near side lane coming up to a roundabout. Looked in my drivers side wing mirror and noticed a lovely looking grey Mini with extra spots and the giveaway Cooper S bonnet scoop. We came off the roundabout pretty much level, and there was a slow car in front of me, so I pulled out behind him. He gained a little distance on me (I was driving sensibly for economy!), and thought, heck, will have a play, let the vRS stretch its legs with its AMD remap...

So I gave it some beans, and caught him pretty quickly, and he looked in his rear view, saw I was in the mood for a bit of a play, and he changed down and booted it. Initially, I he pulled a couple of car lengths on me, and I just thought "bugger, quick little things". But at the next roundabout, I kept tight on him, and went for it. I can't believe how evenly matched they were... all the way to *cough* mph, when the next roundabout came up. I had to really hammer on the brakes to stay with him at the roundabout, level around the roundabout, and back up to speed, again staying right with him - but not gaining an inch either! He flashed his hazards and pulled into the nearside lane, I stayed level with him, he eyed up my car, raised his eyebrows and gave me a grin and a thumbs up!

At the next roundabout, he followed me off, and I have to say I gained ever so slightly on him, but literally only talking maybe a car length up to a fairly high speed...

Have to say I was pretty chuffed, I can only guess that his was standard of course, but still fairly pleased.

We convoyed all the way to Huntingdon, where he pipped his horn and gave me another thumbs up. Its nice to see such a cool attitude, with mutual respect for each others cars... refreshing compared to the majority of people who feel they have to risk life and limb not to be beaten by a Skoda. I haven't got the time for such morons, and tend to hold right back.

So, straight line speed, I think the light, powerful, aerodynamic Mini against the brut torque of the heavy brick of a Furby makes them pretty evenly matched on the whole. The Mini seems so much more composed though, with only the slightest bit of nose dive on braking and gear changes, with the std suspension of my vRS making for quite a wallowy ride :( And also, I felt like I was asking far to much of the brakes, and I'm sure he had much more of a safety margin. I really did ask for everything from the P Zero Neros (do me proud everytime - probably the best road tyre going, especially with a bit of heat in them).

I love the little Mini, the sound of the supercharger is divine. But for day to day driving, the comfort, mpg and refinement of the vRS makes it pefect for me. But as a track day toy, for fast A/B road fun, the Mini wins hands down.

*off to find Mini forums to "share the love! *

Can we please stay on topic - for once this seems to be a good thread about comparison with the vRS...

As a gentle reminder....

Can a tuned (160bhp) fabi vRS beat a cooper S?

i totally disagree that the rev range thing is rubbish as i have played with fabia's(from this site) and had to hold back and then boot again whilst they change gear as i am still pulling longer than them.

and john when you say quick petrol cars what are you talking about?? civic type R's? imprezza's? astra sri's??

saying 'petrol cars' is pretty vague

Well I know its not rubbish as I do it almost every night!! when your on the roads for 10-12 hours a night you always feel like playing at some point

There are far too many cars to list - I do play with things like imprezza's and give it all I can but I know damn well no Superb is ever gonna keep up with one, you'd be suprised how little ground they make on you when you dont have to change gear though!! Generaly though I'll be playing with anything you'd find at a Mc donalds cruise, or your average executive rep mobile - BMW, Mercs etc.

Ok, I'm not really into this can mine beat a ?? type of thing but whilst watching a recent 5th Gear I had on Sky+ this evening I got a glance at their rankings board (Lap times around Anglesey track) -

Leon Cupra R - 56.00 secs

Cooper S Convertible - 56.37 secs

Fabia vRS - 57.03 secs

Cooper - 58.03 secs

I would imagine that the Convertible is slower than the normal Cooper S but not by too much.

Interesting to note the time of the Cupra R, I thought it would be a whole lot quicker than the vRS

is the Anglesey track full of slow corners? if it is maybe the power band of the diesel was suited to it

is the Anglesey track full of slow corners? if it is maybe the power band of the diesel was suited to it

The circuit is very technical, and i dont belive there is much time difference between a caterham and a fabia/cupra/mini. The course definately suits the Fabia's torque when leaving corners, and the slight uphill section too, which is where most things get caught up by the fabia.