From my experience they were fair in that they only charged one 'change of policy' where they could of charged on each car they covered.

But the increase on each policy still hurts.

 

We all know not to break the speed limit and if you do just take the punishment, but then being a bit over while doing an overtake and a Speed Safety Partnership Camera van at the end of that straight is rather common in Scotland, 

& then all the other excuses.......

Not sure if things have changed more recently ? but insurers did not consider speeding as something that would massively change your insurance costs (at least for the first 6 points). What I was told was Insurers will look at any driving history you have ( years driven without accident) and be more interested in that for quoting for a premium or adjusting your present policy. So younger drivers, without a decent NCB, will suffer more than somebody with 20 yrs experience and few accidents to their name. 

 That's not me being preachy, personally, I'm well over due another one, I've now got a clean licence for the first time since I was 16.

 

You sirry pirrock. You've just hexed yourself.

 

I said exactly the same thing when for the first time in 30 odd years I had a clean licence on 21st December 2015.

Lo and behold - BANG - on 18th January 2016 I got done for 36 in a 30 (what really peeved me was that I had been a really good boy, until leaving a small village,  about 100 yards from an NSL sign, in open country at that point  and accelerated in anticipation, The Copper stepped out from a farm gateway and clocked me.)

 

Ah well, it's an occupational hazard of doing around 30,000 miles a year

Just incase anyone wants to know it was £100 fine and 3 points.

Heard they've got an awesome Christmas

 

You sirry pirrock. You've just hexed yourself.

 

I said exactly the same thing when for the first time in 30 odd years I had a clean licence on 21st December 2015.

Lo and behold - BANG - on 18th January 2016 I got done for 36 in a 30 (what really peeved me was that I had been a really good boy, until leaving a small village,  about 100 yards from an NSL sign, in open country at that point  and accelerated in anticipation, The Copper stepped out from a farm gateway and clocked me.)

 

Ah well, it's an occupational hazard of doing around 30,000 miles a year

 

Similar mileage here, so yeah, know where you're coming from on that one.

 

I got lasered in a 30 ages ago, yes, it was a 30, but it was a wide open one with good visibility all round. Thing is, the daft bugger tried to clock me from a distance, just before a junction and hit me with the laser before he got it on the plate to do a proper reading, so I knew he was there.

 

Never found out what speed he clocked me at, I suddenly decided I needed to turn left

I was quite surprised that my insurance company at the time didn't put up my premium there and then when I told them I'd been given 3 points. Just went up next time I came to renew. Saying that, they should have gone from my license as of a couple of weeks ago shouldn't they? Got them 3 years ago at the beginning of June..

The issue with getting a 3 points and a £100 fine, or even this happens to you twice or more is how insurance companies can profit.

 

Say you have 1 car and that then charge 10% extra on your policy, so a £400 annual policy goes to £440, 

then that is a hit. 

If you have 2 cars, a van and a motorbike and you are the only insured person on the policy.

& 10% is added to each policy (for ease of man maths lets say 4 x £40 so £160.)

 

You still only drive or ride one vehicle at a time but the insurer or maybe several insurers are acting against natural justice 

and actually costing the offended with more than one insured vehicle differently from others who gets the points, the fine

and extra cost in their policy only once and for a few years.

The UK Government is collecting the extra insurance tax as well.

Edited 22 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

Just had one come through for me, 37 in a 30! I knew as soon as I saw the van I was going to get a ticket but still gutting!!

 

Will wait and see what the outcome is.

Was doing ~35 in a 30 tonight, when I realised there was a police car with a wee camera on top in the opposite lane behind a car. I passed them, they fired on the lights and seemed to pull in but I never seen them again after that. I'm wondering what the chances are they actually caught me on the camera (if its even one that catches your speed), as it could only have been as I was literally next to them that they'd have realised.

 

Suppose the easiest way will be waiting two weeks and seeing if anything comes through the door.

Was doing ~35 in a 30 tonight, when I realised there was a police car with a wee camera on top in the opposite lane behind a car. I passed them, they fired on the lights and seemed to pull in but I never seen them again after that. I'm wondering what the chances are they actually caught me on the camera (if its even one that catches your speed), as it could only have been as I was literally next to them that they'd have realised.

 

Suppose the easiest way will be waiting two weeks and seeing if anything comes through the door.

Their wee camera as you put it was more likely an ANPR camera so they were more likely looking for untaxed/uninsured/cars on their hot list. If your speedo said 35 then it's likely you were doing less than that (compare it against a stand alone satnav if you have one). ACPO guidelines are that you could get prosecuted when you're doing 10% + 2mph above the posted speed limit (i.e. 35mph). Personally I'd be very surprised if you hear anything as the police have bigger fish to fry and as a general principle they will stop you and issue you with a ticket/boolacking while cameras that send you the good news through the post are normally operated by safety camera partnerships during the day or static cameras. If you hear nothing you could treat it as a warning. SWMBO went on a speed awareness course and they said to stay in 3rd which made it easier to stick to 30

Edited 5 November, 20169 yr by littleade

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (as a warning. SWMBO went on a speed awareness course and they said to stay in 3rd which made it easier to stick to 30 yes this may be good advice to reduce speed but it increases pollution levels,just a thought!

.... SWMBO went on a speed awareness course and they said to stay in 3rd which made it easier to stick to 30 yes this may be good advice...

 

Yet when I did mine, out on the assessment run the bloke in charge (ex-police) told us to get into the highest gear as soon as possible. So we were changing into sixth by the time we got to 30 mph. Ridiculous.

 

Didn't bother me, we were in his car, so any strain on engine/clutch/gearbox was his problem.

 

 

 

Who checks these fools?

 

Who checks these fools?

 

If you were out in the car with them they have to be an ADI, so the answer to who checks them is:-

 

1 - The DVSA, at least once during the 4 year registration period.

This is to ensure that you are fit to deliver driver coaching and thus retain your registration.  Depending on your grading the check tests can be more frequent.

 

2 - NDORS - the police organisation which oversees the courses, every two years to maintain the registration to deliver the specific course.

This is to ensure that you are meeting their requirements for the deliver of that specific course.  You get separately monitored on each type of course you deliver.

 

3 - The course provider (i.e. the organisation you booked your course through), every year.

This is to ensure that the course is being delivered in the manner the course provider wishes it to be, there are differences between different providers.

Edited 5 November, 20169 yr by keystonedriving

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36594584

http://www.bankstone.co.uk/the-pros-and-cons-of-speed-awareness

At least the Awareness Courses are not offered in Scotland so that not a Gravy Train that Ex Senior Police Officers can jump on.

Why the poor drivers in Scotland can get on with paying the fines, taking the points and know where they stand with their insurers.

(Scotland has that many Speed Safety Partnership Operators around as well as Fixed & Average Speed Cameras that there is so much less for Police Scotland to do now while out on patrol.

Its the very silly that get caught much over the limit. Got the T-Shirt.)

Then there is the 'Formal warning system' that Police Scotland piloted and might have stuck with for those over the speed limits by even an ickle bit.

Edited 5 November, 20169 yr by Offski

If you were out in the car with them they have to be an ADI, so the answer to who checks them is:-

 

1 - The DVSA, at least once during the 4 year registration period.

This is to ensure that you are fit to deliver driver coaching and thus retain your registration.  Depending on your grading the check tests can be more frequent.

 

2 - NDORS - the police organisation which oversees the courses, every two years to maintain the registration to deliver the specific course.

This is to ensure that you are meeting their requirements for the deliver of that specific course.  You get separately monitored on each type of course you deliver.

 

3 - The course provider (i.e. the organisation you booked your course through), every year.

This is to ensure that the course is being delivered in the manner the course provider wishes it to be, there are differences between different providers.

More fools ?!  :p 

If you were out in the car with them they have to be an ADI, so the answer to who checks them is:-

 

1 - The DVSA, at least once during the 4 year registration period.

This is to ensure that you are fit to deliver driver coaching and thus retain your registration.  Depending on your grading the check tests can be more frequent.

 

2 - NDORS - the police organisation which oversees the courses, every two years to maintain the registration to deliver the specific course.

This is to ensure that you are meeting their requirements for the deliver of that specific course.  You get separately monitored on each type of course you deliver.

 

3 - The course provider (i.e. the organisation you booked your course through), every year.

This is to ensure that the course is being delivered in the manner the course provider wishes it to be, there are differences between different providers.

 

 

My point was - there is a discrepancy between what Sad555's OH was told and what I was told when it comes to what gear the car should be in at a given speed. Not a comment on the rest of the course. My instructor was adamant on his instruction to get in a high gear without delay - if we didn't, he was threatening to fail us (three of us in his car on the practical run) if we didn't do as we were told. The fact that the car was pulling around 1000rpm in sixth and the engine did not sound right was irrelevant. Discussing it later with others (there were about 20 on our course) we were met with disbelief. 

 

I have the greatest respect for police drivers - meaning those who have been taught to drive within their own system, not mainstream police with an ordinary licence - my OH was taught to drive, and I was put through the IAM test, by a Class 1 police driver. However in the two examples discussed above there is a lot more than "differences" between (these two) different assessors. By way of interest, the course provider in my case was Greater Manchester Police.

 

Maybe I had an instructor at the extreme end of the spectrum of differences, but regardless of the value of the course - and it certainly was of value - in this specific area he was simply wrong.

 

 

 

 

(I am the first to say I am not a perfect driver - triggering a speed camera is the proof of that - but after over 45 years of driving over some 700,000 miles in over 100 cars, a clean licence apart from this one speeding ticket - 45 in a 40 zone - and IAM membership since 1983, I do know a little about the relationship between engine speed, road speed, and mechanical sympathy.

These people are robots,they have both been told a method and stick to it,many years ago I can remember a study into the high no of accidents with police drivers in pursuits and it was found they were instructed to feed the wheel thro their hands(always hands on)the wheel and sought advise from rally drivers and found that was not the ideal way to drive at high speed with constant direction change,so did they change their methods?

Driver trainers are individuals with different backgrounds and different experiences, it is therefore inevitable that differing views will be expressed by them.  Vehicles are also different and will therefore respond in different ways to the same situation.  It is also true that not all trainers are equal when it comes to getting their ideas over in a positive way.

 

Gear selection in a given situation is not an absolute right/wrong choice.  There are too many variables involved, in particular engines react differently.  The old 1.9 SDi engine I had in a Fabia and a Polo was able to pull away from about 600 revs, though you didn't get much power until about 1100 revs.  The 1.4 PD engine in the Roomster was quite happy from around 1000 revs, though not a lot happened under 1500 revs.  The 1.2 TSi engine in my Toledo has been a real surprise, happy at around 1000 revs with a lot more torque at low revs than I had expected.  The 2 litre vvt engine in my wife's CRV is totally gutless at under 2000 revs and really isn't happy under 1500 revs at all.

 

At 30 mph the SDi was perfectly happy in 5th, as was the PD.  The TSi is happier in 4th, though 5th is just about usable.  The Honda needs to be in 3rd, it will just about manage it in 4th but it grumbles about it.  Individual drivers' habits are heavily influenced by their regular vehicles, it may take a while to adjust to something different.

 

The two suggestions reported by the posters above represent the extreme ends of the spectrum, most of us will encourage a degree of common sense to be used.  What is appropriate for the vehicle in the prevailing conditions is what we are looking for.

 

One aspect which I find somewhat worrying is the report that the attitude was one of 'do it this way or else'.  That is a pretty extreme form of instruction, where what is generally required on the course is coaching.  (Actually what is required is an approach best suited to the client, which could be instruction, could be coaching or could be something between).  On the NDORS courses, by the way, there is no 'pass' or 'fail'.  You can be removed from a course for being too disruptive, but that is a very rare event.  If there is a driving element to the course the drive may be terminated for extreme safety concerns, though again that is very rare.

 

The point is that we are not there to 'tell' you what to do, that tends to lead to a very negative response.  Our aim is to give you information and to suggest that there may be benefits in changing the way that you do things.  It is then your choice whether you do anything about it in the long run.

All very instructive.

And of those driving really quite modern cars with plenty of power and automatic gearboxes what they need to understand about 'Speed Awareness' is that 

31 MPH is over 30 mph if that is the speed limit, or 40mph means 40 mph etc.

 

Meaning you might actually need to touch your brakes lots, or change down gears because you might find the car coasts at quicker than 30 mph.

Not rockets science really teaching others that the National Speed Limit is a Maximum, and Restricted Speed Limits is an indication of the Max Speed you can travel at for the vehicle you are in, and sometimes that is inappropriate so you need to go slower.

 

 My instructor was adamant on his instruction to get in a high gear without delay - if we didn't, he was threatening to fail us (three of us in his car on the practical run) if we didn't do as we were told. The fact that the car was pulling around 1000rpm in sixth and the engine did not sound right was irrelevant.

 

 

Maybe he wanted a new car. Hoping someone would knacker his, so he could get a new one from the company.

Edited 6 November, 20169 yr by Tilt

It is soooooo easy to exceed the speed limit nowadays.

 

You either have to drive a good bit below the limit, or, watch your speedometer pretty much all of the time.

 

Cruise control helps me a lot, but not every vehicle has it.

 

We have roads (I'm sure most do) that used to be 60 that have now been reduced to 40 (Nottingham A610, M1 J26 towards Ikea) supposedly blamed on people jumping from a walkway high above the road. It is a long stretch (few miles) of dual carriageway which turns into 50 after the bridge and does not revert to 60 until you are nearing a new island at the other end.

 

I will only add that I have definitely been lucky on a few occasions, not purposefully exceeding the limit, but a little over and keeping with the flow when (assuming) the camera van was just being set up for the rush hour. Phew..............

Hi keystone, clearly your use of "we" declares an interest, if your forum name wasn't a clue already. . Nothing wrong with that, a professional's view is always appreciated.

 

I accept that there will be differences across the course trainers/leaders/whatever title they are called. My point here is that clearly the one I had was right at the end of - if not beyond - the limit of acceptable variation. Yes, I agree with you (some cars can accelerate at low revs, others can't), that gear selection is not an absolute  - but to my instructor, it was. Though we were polite and respectful in our discussion with him, his attitude was he was right, we were wrong - otherwise we wouldn't be there - and if we didn't do as we were told, we WOULD be failed. There was no room for discussion. We weren't in a position to argue, and we just wanted to get it over.

 

I'm not a fast driver (though I have been on many occasions in the past, and still can be where inclination, prevailing conditions and the law allow, I've lapped Millbrook at over 140mph) and still vividly remember being taught to drive fast (very fast) safely by the previously mentioned police driver, to get me through the IAM test. But the attitude of this particular former police driver at the speed awareness course was beyond the pale. Initially I approached the whole course with an open mind, welcoming the opportunity to have my driving and wider understanding of roadcraft assessed, criticised (constructively) and refreshed. I don't believe once a test has been passed that's the end of it - learning is a life-long process. However his incorrect instructions and arrogant attitude combined to negate, or at the very least reduce, any benefit from the course. It was some eight years ago, and still rankles.

Yet when I did mine, out on the assessment run the bloke in charge (ex-police) told us to get into the highest gear as soon as possible. So we were changing into sixth by the time we got to 30 mph. Ridiculous.

 

Didn't bother me, we were in his car, so any strain on engine/clutch/gearbox was his problem.

 

 

 

Who checks these fools?

Interesting as round here the SACs are all classroom based with no practical element. The IAM teach you to drive using an 'appropriate' gear that requires you to manage your speed through acceleration sense where possible. Being in too high a gear does not allow this and can be counter productive as an engine that is labouring will waste more fuel than one in a lower gear when accelerating. You are also far more likely to suffer speed creep in a higher gear too and the Safety cameras round here are often positioned to catch people doing just that on slight downslopes. It would seem you had someone who was in the wrong job on yours! 

Yet when I did mine, out on the assessment run the bloke in charge (ex-police) told us to get into the highest gear as soon as possible. So we were changing into sixth by the time we got to 30 mph. Ridiculous.

 

Didn't bother me, we were in his car, so any strain on engine/clutch/gearbox was his problem.

 

 

 

Who checks these fools?

 

I've never been on one of these courses (yet) but a friend who had been on the course (East yorks) was told to stay in a lower gear to give them more awareness of what speed they were doing

 

On my car (1.4tsi) at 30mph in sixth you are only doing 1000rpm - You really need to be in a gear where the engine spins at 1500rpm or above

Hi keystone, clearly your use of "we" declares an interest, if your forum name wasn't a clue already. . Nothing wrong with that, a professional's view is always appreciated.

 

I accept that there will be differences across the course trainers/leaders/whatever title they are called. My point here is that clearly the one I had was right at the end of - if not beyond - the limit of acceptable variation. Yes, I agree with you (some cars can accelerate at low revs, others can't), that gear selection is not an absolute  - but to my instructor, it was. Though we were polite and respectful in our discussion with him, his attitude was he was right, we were wrong - otherwise we wouldn't be there - and if we didn't do as we were told, we WOULD be failed. There was no room for discussion. We weren't in a position to argue, and we just wanted to get it over.

 

I'm not a fast driver (though I have been on many occasions in the past, and still can be where inclination, prevailing conditions and the law allow, I've lapped Millbrook at over 140mph) and still vividly remember being taught to drive fast (very fast) safely by the previously mentioned police driver, to get me through the IAM test. But the attitude of this particular former police driver at the speed awareness course was beyond the pale. Initially I approached the whole course with an open mind, welcoming the opportunity to have my driving and wider understanding of roadcraft assessed, criticised (constructively) and refreshed. I don't believe once a test has been passed that's the end of it - learning is a life-long process. However his incorrect instructions and arrogant attitude combined to negate, or at the very least reduce, any benefit from the course. It was some eight years ago, and still rankles.

 

That 'eight years ago' is quite telling.  In the whole driver training business there has been a sea change during that time.  These days 'instruction' is out, it's 'coaching' that's needed (although I think I heard somebody recently suggesting that 'coaching' was old hat and that now we should be 'mentoring').

 

In truth it has always been coaching for those who work with experienced drivers, telling the MD that they are doing it wrong is not going to be well received.  Tell them that there are other ways they might like to try, that just might work.  I have only worked with experienced drivers, either for company vehicle drivers or on the NDORS courses for about 6 years, though I have been involved in both for over 10 years.  I just gave up learners six years ago.

 

I might add that your extreme ex police officer would fail his DVSA Standards Check if he carried on like that today, you have to be coaching most of the time (though if the client needs is it some instruction is accepted)

 

Just as a summary of the available courses for anyone who might be interested - 

 

Speed Awareness Course - normally classroom based but there are still a handful of places where it includes a practical element.

Driver Alertness Course - part classroom, part in car (for those who have had a crash or similar and are open to prosecution for 'due care').

What's Driving Us - classroom based (for 'attitude' based issues - mobile phone, tailgating, road rage, etc).

Driving For Change - in car (for those with vehicle control issues).

 

Avon & Somerset have two experimental classroom speed courses for those caught in 20 limits or in motorway variable limits.

 

Devon and Cornwall have an experimental classroom course for those not wearing a seatbelt.

 

Our aim on the courses is to try and get people to think about what they do, giving them some information to help that process.  Some people will decide that some changes could bring benefits, others won't.  At the end of the day the decision is theirs to make, we can't enforce change.

 

I recall a Driver Improvement Course some years ago (before it was renamed Driver Alertness) where I finished up with three van drivers in the car with me.  None of them accepted that their crashes warranted being on the course but, at the end, they all agreed that they had learned quite a lot.  I took that as a win.