Skoda are protecting their business interests but they could have done it better.  Honour the orders and then kick NCD into the long grass for abuse of position.

N C D have done nothing wrong in that they want to supply cars at the lowest prices possible, nothing wrong in that. Skoda agreed to accept the orders and went to the stage whereby they actually made the cars, thus confirming their agreement to and acceptance of the orders. Then they having got to that advanced stage, refuse to honour their commitment and hand the vehicles over. And that is not only abuse of contact but damned bad trading into the bargain. I looked earlier at N C D's w/site and Skoda are not mentioned for any vehicles.

Their website (NCD) is down this morning too

Skoda are protecting their business interests but they could have done it better. Honour the orders and then kick NCD into the long grass for abuse of position.

N C D have done nothing wrong in that they want to supply cars at the lowest prices possible, nothing wrong in that. Skoda agreed to accept the orders and went to the stage whereby they actually made the cars, thus confirming their agreement to and acceptance of the orders. Then they having got to that advanced stage, refuse to honour their commitment and hand the vehicles over. And that is not only abuse of contact but damned bad trading into the bargain. I looked earlier at N C D's w/site and Skoda are not mentioned for any vehicles.

That's not my reading of it, NCD were at fault if they broke the terms of their contract with Skoda - which appears most likely from what we have heard.

For Skoda to stop the orders, it is pretty obvious NCD are or must be in breach of contract and it will come out at some point.

There was more than likely a clause for business/commercial fleet purchases only and not an internet "Group buy" which it appears they have tried to do.

Edited 11 June, 201610 yr by Defenderben

It's possible that the supplying dealer has a lot to answer for.

We don't know whether any agreement has been breached but, if it has, it could either be the one between Skoda and the dealer (which is a separate business) or the one between the dealer and NCD. Either way, the supplying dealer would likely be implicated to some extent. It is in theory possible, although not very plausible, that Skoda, and even NCD, were completely in the clear.

The fact that Skoda has been able to cancel the orders would suggest that an agreement it had with the supplying dealer may have been breached. I doubt it would have had any direct agreement with NCD.

It's unlikely we'll ever get to the truth of the matter. One thing which seems beyond doubt however is that the end customers have acted in good faith. That is what makes Skodas initial response so poor.

It's possible that the supplying dealer has a lot to answer for.

We don't know whether any agreement has been breached but, if it has, it could either be the one between Skoda and the dealer (which is a separate business) or the one between the dealer and NCD. Either way, the supplying dealer would likely be implicated to some extent. It is in theory possible, although not very plausible, that Skoda, and even NCD, were completely in the clear.

The fact that Skoda has been able to cancel the orders would suggest that an agreement it had with the supplying dealer may have been breached. I doubt it would have had any direct agreement with NCD.

It's unlikely we'll ever get to the truth of the matter. One thing which seems beyond doubt however is that the end customers have acted in good faith. That is what makes Skodas initial response so poor.

Hmm, not entirely sure about the bit about "end customers have acted in good faith" -- certainly on this forum it's been stated that NCD were getting fleet pricing for private orders, which is why they could offer such big discounts. Presumably the supplying dealer(s) also knew this, so both they and NCD were acting against contract conditions to get more business.

 

If you order something at a bargain price and know or suspect that it's so cheap because somebody's not being completely honest -- for example, not paying customs/import duty or VAT, or in this case claiming it to be a fleet purchase when it obviously isn't -- you can't really complain if the supplier (who is the one losing money) finds out and cuts off the source of supply and cancels your order. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is...

 

But stopping delivery to the people who ordered the cars is bad PR and hurts everybody. If I was Skoda I'd have let the deliveries go ahead with the customer price as agreed but ask the supplying dealer to make up the loss to Skoda, and let them fight it out with NCD as to who pays. Making the end customer pay is probably impossible anyway since their contract is with NCD or the dealer, and it's not the customer who broke any contract terms.

I have a VAT invoice for the car already so VAT is being paid on the vehicle

I have a VAT invoice for the car already so VAT is being paid on the vehicle

I didn't mean NCD weren't paying VAT, I meant that this was one of the reasons why things can be cheaper than they ought to be, and why the buyer should be suspicious if the deal seems too good to be true...

.

 

If you order something at a bargain price and know or suspect that it's so cheap because somebody's not being completely honest -- for example, not paying customs/import duty or VAT, or in this case claiming it to be a fleet purchase when it obviously isn't -- you can't really complain if the supplier (who is the one losing money) finds out and cuts off the source of supply and cancels your order. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is...

 

So now the question arises as to what is a fleet, does it have to be owned by one organisation or why can it not be an assembly of like vessels, in this case cars and unless there is a definition in the Agreements required by Skoda that the components must be owned by a single entity I would say they are on shaky ground in having done what they have. A fleet could well be an assembly of anything of similar nature. I assume N C D waited until they got sufficient orders to make up the minimum number required by Skoda as to comprise a " fleet ", which need not comprise solely of Superbs but any model of Skodas. Unless N C D made out these components were owned by one entity I can't see they did anything wrong, assumimg as I said, there is no definition in Skoda's Agreements as to exactly what is a fleet. And was not the action only taken initially in respect of Superbs?. There is more to this than meets the eye, but Skoda's action of refusing to hand over the vehicles to waiting customers is , heedless of any other factors, bad practice, which they may well come to regret.

but Skoda's action of refusing to hand over the vehicles to waiting customers is , heedless of any other factors, bad practice, which they may well come to regret.

which will harden my stance against them in the question of restitution on the emissions scandal, on which I have heard nothing from them for some time, and we are halfway through the year. Has anyone had their vehicle seen to yet and with what effect?

Fleet sales in the car industry means supplying multiple vehicles to business end users, not single vehicles to private end users...

• fleet noun [C] (VEHICLES)

C1 a number of buses, aircraft, etc. under the control of one person or organization: He owns a fleet of taxis

Jealous dealers who read forum posts are responsible for shopping the supplying dealer(s).

It's all very shoddy. SUK have dropped a real clanger and now realise the mess they have caused. Customer service I don't think so.

Jealous dealers who read forum posts are responsible for shopping the supplying dealer(s).

It's all very shoddy. SUK have dropped a real clanger and now realise the mess they have caused. Customer service I don't think so.

"Shopping the supplying dealers" makes it sound like they're genuine diamond geezers supplying dodgy motors who are now going to be banged up in chokey 'cos they've been grassed up...

 

(and do you really think nobody from SUK reads these forums? I would if I wanted to get useful feedback about what my customers really thought.)

 

As I said I don't think SUK's response (to stop supplying the cars) was the right one, but you can bet they wouldn't be doing anything they weren't 100% sure of legally -- to carry on the theme, the supplying dealers and NCD were well out of order banging out dodgy gear and they've been caught red-handed ;-)

Edited 11 June, 201610 yr by IanJD

Hmm, not entirely sure about the bit about "end customers have acted in good faith" -- certainly on this forum it's been stated that NCD were getting fleet pricing for private orders, which is why they could offer such big discounts. Presumably the supplying dealer(s) also knew this, so both they and NCD were acting against contract conditions to get more business.

If you order something at a bargain price and know or suspect that it's so cheap because somebody's not being completely honest -- for example, not paying customs/import duty or VAT, or in this case claiming it to be a fleet purchase when it obviously isn't -- you can't really complain if the supplier (who is the one losing money) finds out and cuts off the source of supply and cancels your order. Remember, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is...

But stopping delivery to the people who ordered the cars is bad PR and hurts everybody. If I was Skoda I'd have let the deliveries go ahead with the customer price as agreed but ask the supplying dealer to make up the loss to Skoda, and let them fight it out with NCD as to who pays. Making the end customer pay is probably impossible anyway since their contract is with NCD or the dealer, and it's not the customer who broke any contract terms.

Before this episode I had no idea about fleet v private prices etc. I made the purchase with NCD in good faith and had absolutely no thoughts at the time that there maybe some dishonest practices going on. I honestly thought that by buying through a broker and bypassing the normal dealership route was the reasons for obtaining a generous discount.

On a tangent, today I've just bought some AV equipment from Richer Sounds, they price matched Costco and reduced the price by £400. I'm not sure this is a fair comparison but I hope you get my drift, bargains can be had and not necessarily through dishonest means.

Edited 11 June, 201610 yr by Oldgits

Before this episode I had no idea about fleet v private prices etc. I made the purchase with NCD in good faith and had absolutely no thoughts at the time that there maybe some dishonest practices going on. I honestly thought that by buying through a broker and bypassing the normal dealership route was the reasons for obtaining a generous discount.

On a tangent, today I've just bought some AV equipment from Richer Sounds, they price matched Costco and reduced the price by £400. I'm not sure this is a fair comparison but I hope you get my drift, bargains can be had and not necessarily through dishonest means.

I'm scared of replying to you as you seem to take a delight in snitching/ having a go at me!!! but here goes anyway.....I too did a price match on a large Sony TV with Richer Sounds at the very end of last year and saved £250, which to me is exactly the same principle. Just a shame that I wasted three and a half months waiting only to have it pulled within around a week of having it delivered!

I'm scared of replying to you as you seem to take a delight in snitching/ having a go at me!!! but here goes anyway.....I too did a price match on a large Sony TV with Richer Sounds at the very end of last year and saved £250, which to me is exactly the same principle. Just a shame that I wasted three and a half months waiting only to have it pulled within around a week of having it delivered!

I haven't "snitched" on you as you put it, just stated the facts. It's a shame you've waited three and a half months and are not prepared to give it a while longer to see if an amicable resolution can be found. Many of us are still fighting our corner and hope to get some form of result from this, you have made you conclusions about Skoda and have gone elsewhere, that is your perogative and I wish you luck with your new purchase.

It is in theory possible, although not very plausible, that Skoda, and even NCD, were completely in the clear.

The fact that Skoda has been able to cancel the orders would suggest that an agreement it had with the supplying dealer may have been breached. I doubt it would have had any direct agreement with NCD.

.

I tend to think there is a high likelihood that the dealer bent the rules.

I don't know which dealer but were they exclusively a fleet supplier or did they also have a retail division. If they had both they might have been quietly switching sales between the two to maximise bonuses. It seems to me that they could have been selling to NCD from both divisions.

We are all aware that the discount percentage changed at various times of each month, so this suggests that price was dependant on a cross subsidy from a volume bonus, so when volume target was reached, the remainder of month had less of a discount. I doubt NCD was getting a volume bonus, just a simple fee on each one, which is why my feeling is that the naughty games were elsewhere, and the dealer in middle seems most likely.

you can bet they wouldn't be doing anything they weren't 100% sure of legally

What, like put a defeat device on a car to falsely lower emissions during tests [emoji6]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well said Jaytip. Some posting on here seem to think Skoda are always right and can't do wrong.

I wouldn't wish what I've gone through on anyone I'm pretty sure their views would differ if in the similar position.

Well said Jaytip. Some posting on here seem to think Skoda are always right and can't do wrong.

I wouldn't wish what I've gone through on anyone I'm pretty sure their views would differ if in the similar position.

+1

Well said Jaytip. Some posting on here seem to think Skoda are always right and can't do wrong.

I wouldn't wish what I've gone through on anyone I'm pretty sure their views would differ if in the similar position.

Nope, didn't say Skoda did the right thing, did say that NCD or their supplying dealer did the wrong thing. There are undoubtedly some innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire who just thought they were getting a terrific bargain, there are probably others who knew what was going in but turned a blind eye or didn't care or ask *why* the deals were so good.

 

Any time you buy something nowadays -- especially online -- there are always a group of suppliers at very similar cheap prices, and often one or two who are considerably cheaper but if you dig deep enough you find out that they're a bit dodgy in one way or another -- no physical address or landline phone number, no company details, no independent ratings on trusted review sites, avoiding VAT by shipping from somewhere tax-exempt and so on -- in other words there's always a reason *why* they're below the normal price range of reputable suppliers.

 

There are lots of car brokers who offer good deals, but they all work on the same basis -- find the cheapest dealer/supplier, add on some margin, and sell the car to you -- and so their prices are normally quite similar if you actually dig all the way down through the ads and get a like-for-like quote. Anyone who comes in considerably cheaper than this -- like NCD -- must have either found a cheaper supplier than anybody else (which might mean they're bending the rules, as appears to be the case here) or be accepting a very small margin (not enough to survive, here today gone tomorrow).

 

Like I said, if it appears to be too good to be true, it probably is.

 

P.S. Richer sounds are different, they have some real bargains by specialising in end-of-run or last year's models which the manufacturers want to get out of their warehouses. Since the real difference from one year to the next with electronics is often mainly cosmetic, you can get some very good stuff at very good prices. Only works for cars if you want to buy last year's showroom model...

Nope, didn't say Skoda did the right thing, did say that NCD or their supplying dealer did the wrong thing. There are undoubtedly some innocent bystanders caught in the crossfire who just thought they were getting a terrific bargain, there are probably others who knew what was going in but turned a blind eye or didn't care or ask *why* the deals were so good.

Indeed.

 

Skoda are not my favourite outfit by a country mile (61mpg extra-urban out of a VRS, yeah right, LED rear lights, yeah right it's just the rear lights not the entire rear light cluster that most of us would have interpreted, TPMS, yeah right, it's actually a cheap, unreliable workaround that doesn't monitor the tyre pressures at all) but if they supply an entity based on a legally binding agreement (e.g, don't tell Joe Public but we'll give you this discount if you supply only fleet buyers) and that entity subsequently breaches that legally binding agreement by supplying Joe Public instead of fleet buyers then Skoda can hardly be blamed if they pull the plug?

Fleet sales in the car industry means supplying multiple vehicles to business end users, not single vehicles to private end users...

• fleet noun %5BC%5D (VEHICLES)

C1 a number of buses, aircraft, etc. under the control of one person or organization: He owns a fleet of taxis

But Skoda were not supplying to individual purchasers, but making cars put to them as a fleet (ie multiple order ) which then would be passed on by the entity ordering the " fleet " to the persons who in turn had ordered from that entity, in this case, N C D.

The further part of your posting I am unable to comprehend, must be my fault.

And why this has all happened now I don't understand. There is another thread on BRISKODA which some good long time ago I asked if purchasing this way is risky, and had several replies by persons who had used N C D over several years and more than once, so were well recommended. This method of purchase/ordering must have been going on for some time, so why does it blow up now. I remember mentioning to the main agents I bought my Superb from 6 years ago re these brokers etc and was told by this main agent they cannot compete as the brokers order in such large numbers, so this method had been going on before 2010. Something fishy in this matter, despite which I still maintain Skoda should not prejudice the innocent purchasers, who are only following on a well worn tried and tested trail

I think one thing to keep in mind when the question gets asked "why now when they've been selling this way for years" is that we have no way of knowing if Skoda have warned or reprimanded NCD in the past. For all we know they could have been warned & told to change their practices on past occasions & still pushed their luck.