Broker orders cancelled by Skoda UK

[philpix]

So if as you imply a warning had been issued by Skoda why then if NCD were in the spotlight surely the orders would have stopped by SUK and certainly the cars would not have been built and transported to the UK.

[Jim28270]

And why this has all happened now I don't understand. There is another thread on BRISKODA which some good long time ago I asked if purchasing this way is risky, and had several replies by persons who had used N C D over several years and more than once, so were well recommended. This method of purchase/ordering must have been going on for some time, so why does it blow up now. I remember mentioning to the main agents I bought my Superb from 6 years ago re these brokers etc and was told by this main agent they cannot compete as the brokers order in such large numbers, so this method had been going on before 2010. Something fishy in this matter, despite which I still maintain Skoda should not prejudice the innocent purchasers, who are only following on a well worn tried and tested trail

I agree. At least three brokers have been mentioned on this forum and, at times, the other two were even cheaper than NCD. These brokers may well have been diverting fleet sales to private customers but there's no reason to believe that they were doing it in ways that were illegal.

Setting aside speculation as to whether contracts have been broken, I tend to think that the root cause of all this is excessive discounting on fleet sales by Skoda. Last summer, before the car had even launched, there were some incredibly good personal leasing terms available (see http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/skoda-superb-new-model-2-0-tdi-se-business-edition-5dr-24-month-lease-8k-miles-year-2254003). These sorts of terms would only usually be available on slow moving models at the end of their production run.

This meant that the brokers were able to offer much larger than usual discounts on a brand new model. The inevitable result was higher broker sales and, in the eyes of Skoda, too many private buyers being diverted away from the traditional dealer route.

[Jaytip]

I think part of the problem for Skoda is the success of the new Superb. The SI and SII were by and large mainly sold to the taxi trade, but the SIII is a leap forward in looks and image and as a result the amount of sales has caught Skoda out hence long waiting lists.

All of a sudden Skoda think "hang on, why should we be flogging this brand new sort after car at such discount when there are waiting lists for it"

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[Tony R]

I think one thing to keep in mind when the question gets asked "why now when they've been selling this way for years" is that we have no way of knowing if Skoda have warned or reprimanded NCD in the past. For all we know they could have been warned & told to change their practices on past occasions & still pushed their luck.

so why would Skoda alone do that and not all other manufacturers, many of whom still seem to be playing ball with N C D if the latter's w/site is true. Even other parts of the V A G Group are still trading with N C D.

[Prykey]

I'm not clever enough to comment on who is at fault here, however it seems to me that this whole fleet sales thing needs to be kicked into touch for all producers not just Skoda, if these vehicles can be manufactured and sold at these discounts lets all get a slice of the action, if not lets all pay the same amount as the only person that loses out is Joe Public the private buyer as somebody has to subsidize these discounts and its certainly not the manufacturer.

 

I'm certain that the limited choice of colours we get in the UK and the spec levels are driven by fleet buyers so that they can ensure the resale value (of their already heavily discounted vehicle) isn't hit by someone choosing Tangerine, Cosmic Green or Purple with Pink Leather interior (I would have personally liked the Tangerine) We pay good money for these things so lets have what we want!

 

Especially as a huge choice of exterior colours is available in other markets so you are not asking for something that doesn't exist are you.

 

Before anyone cries foul or sower grapes I personally would like to see those cars that were built to be delivered at no extra charge to those that ordered them as you have done nothing wrong you were only trying to get a deal as we all are, its the system thats wrong and in a way we are all suffering for it. Out of interest I thought about using a broker but decided to continue my relationship (on a strictly professional basis) with a local dealer who has looked after me, my brother and a friend for many years and beat the CarWow offers that I received. 

Edited 12 June, 2016 by Prykey

[Tony R]

All of a sudden Skoda think "hang on, why should we be flogging this brand new sort after car at such discount when there are waiting lists for it"

so why stop selling ALL other models via N C D. And why have VW stopped using N C D. There is something customers, especially those who ordered cars, need to be told. I wonder if anything appears on the VW version of BRISKODA, if such exits. AND OF COURSE, N C D need to make a statement, especially to their let-down customers!, not only make a statement but fight damned hard to enable them to honour the contract with their customer. Both of those aspects do not show N C D in a good light.

[UncleWang]

I'm not clever enough to comment on who is at fault here, however it seems to me that this whole fleet sales thing needs to be kicked into touch for all producers not just Skoda, if these vehicles can be manufactured and sold at these discounts lets all get a slice of the action, if not lets all pay the same amount as the only person that loses out is Joe Public the private buyer as somebody has to subsidize these discounts and its certainly not the manufacturer.

 

I'm certain that the limited choice of colours we get in the UK and the spec levels are driven by fleet buyers so that they can ensure the resale value (of their already heavily discounted vehicle) isn't hit by someone choosing Tangerine, Cosmic Green or Purple with Pink Leather interior (I would have personally liked the Tangerine) We pay good money for these things so lets have what we want!

 

Especially as a huge choice of exterior colours is available in other markets so you are not asking for something that doesn't exist are you.

 

Before anyone cries foul or sower grapes I personally would like to see those cars that were built to be delivered at no extra charge to those that ordered them as you have done nothing wrong you were only trying to get a deal as we all are, its the system thats wrong and in a way we are all suffering for it. Out of interest I thought about using a broker but decided to continue my relationship (on a strictly professional basis) with a local dealer who has looked after me, my brother and a friend for many years and beat the CarWow offers that I received. 

Purple with Pink leather interior sounds good to me!!!!

[IanJD]

The cars should go to the customers at the agreed price, it's not their fault, it's the fault of whoever was ordering cars at the fleet prices for private sales against the terms of their contract -- presumably the dealer supplying NCD, who then took advantage of it to win business by offering low prices. Regardless of who has being doing it for how long and getting away with it and whether you think lower fleet pricing is unfair on private buyers, it's difficult to blame Skoda for cottoning on to how much money this was losing them and finally enforcing the rules.

 

NCD do need to make a statement, but it's difficult to think what they could say without admitting that what they (and the dealer) was doing was against the private/fleet rules set by Skoda, which could expose them to compensation claims from disgruntled buyers -- they can't claim with a straight face that they didn't know what was going on with their supplying dealer, so effectively they were collaborating to defraud (yes, that's a strong word but what was going on) Skoda to get more business by offering extra-low prices to private buyers.

 

Yes I agree that the whole car dealer sales/servicing system is broken now the internet enables people to order cars from anywhere they want, and that private buyers have been getting a raw deal compare to fleet buyers who get massive discounts. But that's no different to saying the same about any law/tax/benefit system you don't like, not liking it doesn't entitle you to disobey it and get away with it -- the right thing is to get the system changed.

 

Unfortunately turkeys don't vote for Xmas and car dealers employ a lot of people to sell and service the cars who need paying, and would be out of a job if everyone ordered cars direct from the manufacturer and got them serviced either by them or independently -- this is the Tesla business model, and look at the massive resistance they've had from established motor industry interests.

Edited 12 June, 2016 by IanJD

[Oldgits]

It would be interesting to hear of any NCD success stories, maybe then we could get a clue as to what dealerships they have an arrangement with.

[Gizmo]

Out of interest I thought about using a broker but decided to continue my relationship (on a strictly professional basis) with a local dealer who has looked after me, my brother and a friend for many years and beat the CarWow offers that I received. 

 

Ultimately this is what really matters, unfortunately not everyone (myself included) have a local dealer who are as good, I am currently trying a different dealer for this very reason, so for me I had no reason to be loyal to them... this may change, only time will tell.

 

It would be interesting to hear of any NCD success stories, maybe then we could get a clue as to what dealerships they have an arrangement with.

 

As a happy NCD customer, what do you want to know? 

[Oldgits]

Ultimately this is what really matters, unfortunately not everyone (myself included) have a local dealer who are as good, I am currently trying a different dealer for this very reason, so for me I had no reason to be loyal to them... this may change, only time will tell.

 

 

As a happy NCD customer, what do you want to know?

Which dealer did your car come from?

[Jim28270]

I think part of the problem for Skoda is the success of the new Superb. The SI and SII were by and large mainly sold to the taxi trade, but the SIII is a leap forward in looks and image and as a result the amount of sales has caught Skoda out hence long waiting lists.

All of a sudden Skoda think "hang on, why should we be flogging this brand new sort after car at such discount when there are waiting lists for it"

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Doesn't this just illustrate the hypocrisy of the car manufacturers? They are happy to turn a blind eye to broker sales when they have mounting stocks of poor selling models. But the rules change when the same thing happens on a new model with a waiting list.

[UncleWang]

Doesn't this just illustrate the hypocrisy of the car manufacturers? They are happy to turn a blind eye to broker sales when they have mounting stocks of poor selling models. But the rules change when the same thing happens on a new model with a waiting list.

Boycott the lot of them and buy a Stargate instead......that'll teach 'em!!!! 

[Jaytip]

Doesn't this just illustrate the hypocrisy of the car manufacturers? They are happy to turn a blind eye to broker sales when they have mounting stocks of poor selling models. But the rules change when the same thing happens on a new model with a waiting list.

Absolutely it does. They are a business first and foremost, us the buying public are just an order number for them.

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[philpix]

I researched NCD from all sources I could find including of course Briskodians.

I'm genuinely pleased for the owners who had a trouble free buying experience.

My order was due tomorrow.... the whole thing stinks but hey ho the world hasn't stopped spinning:)

[SkodaVRS1963]

I'm not clever enough to comment on who is at fault here, however it seems to me that this whole fleet sales thing needs to be kicked into touch for all producers not just Skoda, if these vehicles can be manufactured and sold at these discounts lets all get a slice of the action, if not lets all pay the same amount

 

Market forces.

 

It's why Tesco can buy their milk at 10p a litre from local farmers whereas your local independent shop has to pay 20p a litre.

 

Supermarkets have been lambasted for destroying the local shops but if you were Mr Tesco and you were placing an order for 50,000 litres a day from Farmer Giles, wouldn't you expect a bigger discount than Mrs Jones Corner Shop that orders 50 litres a day?

 

That's the root of the issue here (from what I've read): Skoda have got wise to the fact that they're artificially discounting vehicles that are going to Joe Public.

 

I don't see that Skoda have done anything wrong, legally.

[Mike66]

I haven't looked at broker prices, but how much of a discount were NCD offering? In my case it would be 150 L&K with list of just over 29k

Edited 12 June, 2016 by Mike66

[UncleWang]

I haven't looked at broker prices, but how much of a discount were NCD offering? In my case it would be 150 L&K with list of just over 29k

I HAD!!!! a 280 L&K estate with £1150 worth of options on order for just over £29k and should have had it around a week ago!

[Decto]

The pricing isn't that different, the introduction brokers are still offering 14-15% if you shop around, had a call from a dealer last week. As a retail customer, you also get servicing and subsidised finance @ 2.9% (note the £1500/2000 ) off + is already including in the percentage. NCD were offering 19-20%, no subsidised finance or servicing.

 

Not needing finance, servicing or a test drive, I was happy to take a little more risk and order through NCD.

 

When I visited show rooms, one of the dealers I spoke to, one told me they don't discount the superb because it has a 6 month waiting list before I'd even looked round for 5 minutes and another also said 24 weeks plus for a car but he might be able to get me a car that's already in the system if I wanted it sooner though as they are so much in demand, not to expect a discount as there was a lot of competition for them and also that 'no-one' buys petrol cars and a diesel would be fine for my daily 3 mile commute with a couple of school drop offs before work. I did ask about test drives, but no 1.4 petrol's available, offered the high power diesel ... decided no point as I'm sure all cars drive better than my 13 year old 150k VW. At no point had I even mentioned price, discount, brokers etc.

 

Forgive me for not shedding too much of a tear and taking the cheaper, no BS option of NCD. These were clearly not full retail cars as the finance / servicing was not on offer. Figured that this traded off for the lower cost and the car still came from a UK dealer. I was happy with the risk, this time it didn't work out and I got my deposit back immediately. Good luck to Skoda on selling my car with all the options I'd added. I can either order a new car now for an extra £700 ... as of last Friday, or buy something else. Planning to test drive the CX5 as a wild card, costs similar after discounts.  If I order almost any car now, I'll get the new plate which will improve the residuals and my existing tank can't depreciate a lot more and still runs and drives fine, just getting a touch tatty and damp in the winter.

 

Others are in a worse position who made arrangement for their car, situation sucks in their position so they have my sympathy. I agree it's been handled poorly.

 

I don't buy into the whole waiting list. Almost all built to order cars have a 10-14 week waiting list. Takes around 4 weeks to ship around Europe and the build is usually fixed at about 4 weeks out (minor changes allowed) add another couple of weeks as a buffer so you have a good mix of cars to sequence into your 4 week hold period and you're easily at 10 weeks for an efficient factory. A good number of cars in the system are also speculative, the dealers have targets to hit so will order a couple of likely sellers so when someone is in a hurry they can sell you something in flight as a cancelled order. Keeps the demand up and the perception of supply shortage. There were some specific supply difficulties on some specifications and likely some less popular colours as the spray booths won't be running all 70 or so Czech colour continuously. If there are any spare cars, they'll turn up as a good deal in the leasing companies as that's the best way to offload excess stock while still absorbing your operating costs into the cars as efficiently as possible. Keep an eye out of this and it's a good time to haggle.

 

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Edited 12 June, 2016 by Decto

[Gizmo]

Which dealer did your car come from?

 

Mine came from Simpsons in Preston

 

I haven't looked at broker prices, but how much of a discount were NCD offering? In my case it would be 150 L&K with list of just over 29k

 

21% in my case (190 DSG L&K with a fair few options)

[UncleWang]

The pricing isn't that different, the introduction brokers are still offering 14-15% if you shop around, had a call from a dealer last week. As a retail customer, you also get servicing and subsidised finance @ 2.9% (note the £1500/2000 ) off + is already including in the percentage. NCD were offering 19-20%, no subsidised finance or servicing.

 

Not needing finance, servicing or a test drive, I was happy to take a little more risk and order through NCD.

 

When I visited show rooms, one of the dealers I spoke to, one told me they don't discount the superb because it has a 6 month waiting list before I'd even looked round for 5 minutes and another also said 24 weeks plus for a car but he might be able to get me a car that's already in the system if I wanted it sooner though as they are so much in demand, not to expect a discount as there was a lot of completion for them and also that 'no-one' buys petrol cars and a diesel would be fine for my daily 3 mile commute with a couple of school drop offs before work. I did ask about test drives, but no 1.4 petrol's available, offered the high power diesel ... decided no point as I'm sure all cars drive better than my 13 year old 150k VW. At no point had I event mentioned price, discount, brokers etc.

 

Forgive me for not shedding too much of a tear and taking the cheaper, no BS option of NCD. These were clearly not full retail cars as the finance / servicing was not on offer. Figured that this traded off for the lower cost and the car still came from a UK dealer. I was happy with the risk, this time it didn't work out and I got my deposit back immediately. Good luck to Skoda on selling my car with all the options I'd added. I can either order a new car now for an extra £700 ... as of last Friday, or buy something else. Planning to test drive the CX5 as a wild card, costs similar after discounts.  If I order almost any car now, I'll get the new plate which will improve the residuals and my existing tank can't depreciate a lot more and still runs and drives fine, just getting a touch tatty and damp in the winter.

 

Others are in a worse position who made arrangement for their car, situation sucks in their position so they have my sympathy. I agree it's been handled poorly.

 

I don't buy into the whole waiting list. Almost all built to order cars have a 10-14 week waiting list. Takes around 4 weeks to ship around Europe and the build is usually fixed at about 4 weeks out (minor changes allowed) add another couple of weeks as a buffer so you have a good mix of cars to sequence into your 4 week hold period and you're easily at 10 weeks for an efficient factory. A good number of cars in the system are also speculative, the dealers have targets to hit so will order a couple of likely sellers so when someone is in a hurry they can sell you something in flight as a cancelled order. Keeps the demand up and the perception of supply shortage. There were some specific supply difficulties on some specifications and likely some less popular colours as the spray booths won't be running all 70 or so Czech colour continuously. If there are any spare cars, they'll turn up as a good deal in the leasing companies as that's the best way to offload excess stock will still absorbing your operating costs into the cars as efficiently as possible.

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Mine worked out at just over 22% discount!

Good call with the CX5, I have ordered the petrol sport nav and should have it early next month.

[UncleWang]

The pricing isn't that different, the introduction brokers are still offering 14-15% if you shop around, had a call from a dealer last week. As a retail customer, you also get servicing and subsidised finance @ 2.9% (note the £1500/2000 ) off + is already including in the percentage. NCD were offering 19-20%, no subsidised finance or servicing.

 

Not needing finance, servicing or a test drive, I was happy to take a little more risk and order through NCD.

 

When I visited show rooms, one of the dealers I spoke to, one told me they don't discount the superb because it has a 6 month waiting list before I'd even looked round for 5 minutes and another also said 24 weeks plus for a car but he might be able to get me a car that's already in the system if I wanted it sooner though as they are so much in demand, not to expect a discount as there was a lot of completion for them and also that 'no-one' buys petrol cars and a diesel would be fine for my daily 3 mile commute with a couple of school drop offs before work. I did ask about test drives, but no 1.4 petrol's available, offered the high power diesel ... decided no point as I'm sure all cars drive better than my 13 year old 150k VW. At no point had I event mentioned price, discount, brokers etc.

 

Forgive me for not shedding too much of a tear and taking the cheaper, no BS option of NCD. These were clearly not full retail cars as the finance / servicing was not on offer. Figured that this traded off for the lower cost and the car still came from a UK dealer. I was happy with the risk, this time it didn't work out and I got my deposit back immediately. Good luck to Skoda on selling my car with all the options I'd added. I can either order a new car now for an extra £700 ... as of last Friday, or buy something else. Planning to test drive the CX5 as a wild card, costs similar after discounts.  If I order almost any car now, I'll get the new plate which will improve the residuals and my existing tank can't depreciate a lot more and still runs and drives fine, just getting a touch tatty and damp in the winter.

 

Others are in a worse position who made arrangement for their car, situation sucks in their position so they have my sympathy. I agree it's been handled poorly.

 

I don't buy into the whole waiting list. Almost all built to order cars have a 10-14 week waiting list. Takes around 4 weeks to ship around Europe and the build is usually fixed at about 4 weeks out (minor changes allowed) add another couple of weeks as a buffer so you have a good mix of cars to sequence into your 4 week hold period and you're easily at 10 weeks for an efficient factory. A good number of cars in the system are also speculative, the dealers have targets to hit so will order a couple of likely sellers so when someone is in a hurry they can sell you something in flight as a cancelled order. Keeps the demand up and the perception of supply shortage. There were some specific supply difficulties on some specifications and likely some less popular colours as the spray booths won't be running all 70 or so Czech colour continuously. If there are any spare cars, they'll turn up as a good deal in the leasing companies as that's the best way to offload excess stock will still absorbing your operating costs into the cars as efficiently as possible.

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Also I have a 13 year old Beetle 1.8T, mega reliable, never failed an MOT (touch wood) and will never get rid of it!

[philpix]

Oh so long as it's legal that's alright then.

What crap. Try morals.

[Decto]

Mine worked out at just over 22% discount!

Good call with the CX5, I have ordered the petrol sport nav and should have it early next month.

 

I was also looking at the Petrol Sport Nav.. shame their is no heated windows and we can't have the US spec 2.5Lt 4x4 auto.

 

Slightly off topic, but did you find a good forum? could do with finding a BriMazda to get some user feedback.

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[UncleWang]

Oh so long as it's legal that's alright then.

What crap. Try morals.

VW group are totally legal and do everything by the book.....that why they will be paying out billions in compensation and fines!!!!   gutted for them.