Mil, so you think that police always have to use their lights and siren? What happens when they do not want to alert the person they are after? Or want to catch the person in the act.

To be fair it's not hard to spot a police car, as they do stand out abit!

Then Doc' date=' in my opinion that is absolutely messed up. Do you not see the common sense in using the lights in an emergency if they're going to break the speed limit? If not, then that gives every citizen the right to break the speed limit 'in an emergency'.

That indirectly says your police officers are allowed to 'break' the law :thumbdwn:[/quote']

It says nothing of the sort.

The law itself says that emergency vehicles are allowed to speed when needed.

It is best practice to use lights and sirens when possible , but there are no end of reasons why this might not be possible.

Ordinary members of the public have no such provision - emergency or not.

http://www.surrey.police.uk/speeding.pdf even quotes the specific part of the Road Traffic Act

Mil' date=' so you think that police always have to use their lights and siren? What happens when they do not want to alert the person they are after? Or want to catch the person in the act.

To be fair it's not hard to spot a police car, as they do stand out abit![/quote']

No dude. You misunderstood my point. Late at night, it's understandable they shouldn't use the siren for the sake of disturbing the peace. But the lights?? Come on. And still, if they were to sneak up on someone, they wouldn't need to speed to do so, and they would most usually use an undercover vehicle.

Tell me if this does not make sense.

In any case alot of the times I think the law is just pure cr@p as far as road use is concerned, so it doesn't really matter to me This statement does not mean that I break the law :P

Mil I did understand your point and I understand what you mean. In a perfect world then I guess you could be right.

Even with the lights on it could tip off the person they are trying to catch. for example someone lurking about, now if they come along with the lights flashing that person will know it's for a reason and will run as soon as they see the lights. But they may not notice a police car just driving pass.

Or like said before if one unit is having trouble with a route traffic stop, another police car coming with it's light may alert the suspect into driving off (possible extra harm to the general public) or attack the police officers.

Now I'm the last person to really stick up for the police as they are not my favourite service but they have enough **** without people gettin overly petty.

Even with the lights on it could tip off the person they are trying to catch. for example someone lurking about, now if they come along with the lights flashing that person will know it's for a reason and will run as soon as they see the lights. But they may not notice a police car just driving pass.

I would also say that a marked police car exceeding the speed limit as much as was stated in this case in a built up area would also attract attention.

Surely it would have been safer and a better idea to use lights up until you got close to the scene and then turned them off. From the sound of the story the police car was speeding through an area long before it got to traffic lights and turned to it's destination?

I'm not saying they were in the wrong. I don't know enough about what was going on. But in my mind they could have used flashing lights on route, then gone covert near the final destination if that was their goal?

I'm not saying they were in the wrong. I don't know enough about what was going on. But in my mind they could have used flashing lights on route' date=' then gone covert near the final destination if that was their goal?[/quote']

agreed it would have been ideal and I'm sure in most cases the police would do that, my point was that at times it's need to not used the sirens and lights.

I had occasion to dial 999 for the police last week after being woken up at 2.45 in the morning by the sound of a number of people acting suspiciously on our estate. When I went to investigate I heard the sound of a garden fence being broken to the rear of some houses, following which 2 men climbed a rear gate from a garden and ran off down the road. I then discovered 2 youths - circa 14 years old - hiding behind a bush in front of the house which had just been visited. They too ran off. The police car which arrived on the scene at speed shortly afterwards was not displaying blue lights or using a siren since to do so would have alerted the offenders of their presence and been counter-productive.

I cant remember what country I was in (possibly Mexico) but i've been somewhere in the world where the marked police cars have to have their blue lights flashing even when they are not responding to an emergency and just patrolling!?

How wierd is that, if they get an emergency they can only switch on the siren, as the lights would have been going anyway!!

I suggest you look up the figures on accidents caused by the police, it's pretty bad and compares very unfavourably to the normal driving public.

How many are from their bad driving and how many are from people reacting in an unexpected way- after all the police do put themselves in more dangerous situations when driving so statisically should have more accidents from that! I've seen people when blue lights go on- the panic is unreal and I've nearly hit someone who slammed on the brakes because a police car was coming up behind...

Surely it would have been safer and a better idea to use lights up until you got close to the scene and then turned them off

I agree.

I cant remember what country I was in (possibly Mexico) but i've been somewhere in the world where the marked police cars have to have their blue lights flashing even when they are not responding to an emergency and just patrolling!?

How wierd is that' date=' if they get an emergency they can only switch on the siren, as the lights would have been going anyway!![/quote']

It is mexico, I went to Cancun for my honeymoon, and noticed that.

The stall owners in the town's market kept asking if I was Scottish, cos I never bought anything.

No offence to our Scottish members.

It is mexico' date=' I went to Cancun for my honeymoon, and noticed that.

The stall owners in the town's market kept asking if I was Scottish, cos I never bought anything.

No offence to our Scottish members. [/quote']

Its fine Shifty....because its true, I am a tight ar$e :D:D

Do you do half portions at your chippie??? im due in blackpool soon

Its fine Shifty....because its true' date=' I am a tight ar$e :D:D

Do you do half portions at your chippie??? im due in blackpool soon [/quote']

Since when did you eat half portions :D

Wont he have to double deep fry everything in lard, then batter it twice before deep frying one final time for a Scottish customer?!

Do you work in my local chipper???

I notice lots of people saying that they think the police officers should have been doing a certain thing as that would have been better given the circumstances etc, but nobody has pointed out that none of us were there in the police car and none of us were listening to the police radio transmissions at the time, and so we have no idea what was going on, or why they didn't use blues. Surely speculation on things like this is better left to those that actually know what was going on?

All we're really qualified to do is argue about whether there's ever a legitimate reason not to use blues or not and then remember that it doesn't really matter what any of us think as the law isn't likely to change because of briskoda (shame, as I have plenty of laws planned for when I become Ruler of the Universe , including removing the liver of drink drivers and pickling them in vodka )

I have plenty of laws planned for when I become Ruler of the Universe , including removing the liver of drink drivers and pickling them in vodka )

Most of them have already done that

We better team up then cos I plan to be the almighty feared ruler of the universe, and live in a hollowed out volcanoe, whilst leaving my foes to die in an extremely complicated and un-neccessary manner, then just assuming their dead

As much as I disagree with the original posters motives for the complaint (we have courts to decide guilt of an accused, the police are there simply to compile evidence and present it to the prosecutor) he is entirely justified in making the complaint.

It is true that the police have exemptions under the Road Traffic Law but they have to justified in their use of them. No different in their use of a baton or CS spray.

There are various operational reasons for not using blues and twos and it is up to each officer to make a decision based on their training and experience to justify this.

Ulitimately driving at speed in a built up area is more dangerous than travelling at 30mph or lower. As a society we expect a quick response from the police when we dial 999 so we have to accept that the police will have to travel at higher speeds to get to us. We all hope that their training will enable them to do this with a minimum of risk to other members of the public. Unfortunately this is not always the case and accidents happen which can have tragic consequences.

There are certainly valid arguments about the standard of police drivers and the level of training they receive. Not all are given the training which they should get but they are still under pressure to perform their duties in rapid response to incidents. It is unfortunately, as with other professions, that these shortfalls in training are only highlighted after a loss of life.

It is also true that from the most highly trained to the trainee humans do stupid things and don't always think of the consequences.

One hopes that the officers did have a valid reason for their actions and if not they are spoken to regarding this as it does the police no favours.

On the whole "why don't you go and deal with real criminals" argument about the enforcement of Road Traffic offences. I am sure if you ask most frontline officers they will tell you that it forms a very small part of their day to day work.

It is still however part of their role and there would be no deterrant to the general public if they did not enforce it at some time. For every person who gets given a fixed penalty ticket (by an actual officer, I don't include cameras in this as that has nothing to do with the frontline officer, this is a police management or council area) there will be plenty more who simply get a warning.

Remember the officer who gives you a ticket for using the bus lane during rush hour on your way home may also be the officer who catches the guy who breaks into your car later that night (I know some of you will have tales of woe regarding lack of police action etc etc if so make a complaint and ask why rather than moaning about it).

Regards