Occasional reluctance changing from 2nd to 3rd

[silver1011]

Noticed it last night for the first time and several times today.

 

My gearbox and clutch are silky smooth, one of the best bits about the Superb, it's so easy to drive smoothly.

 

However it is occasionally becoming more difficult to move from second to third and sometimes when coming out of third, almost as if I'm not pressing the clutch enough.

 

I've had this before when I've moved the seat, either when hoovering the car or when it's been in for service etc. and I haven't quite got the seat back to its original position, I've been sat a little further back and my usual clutch movement is less than it was before.

 

This time though this isn't the case, something has definitely changed.

 

I'm almost certain the clutch is good, I'm really conscious of taking care of it. The gearbox also feel great, when the resistance isn't present the changes are sweet.

 

What else could it be? I've read a few stories over the years of weak slave and master cylinders on the Superb?

Edited 1 December, 2016 by silver1011

[psycholist]

A dodgy master or slave cylinder would give the symptoms you've described, though it should happen with all gear changes rather than just one. 1st to 2nd is the one where it should be most obvious as this is usually the shift where the synchromesh has the most work to do matching speed in the gearbox. When the slave cylinder on my car failed the first symptom was that the clutch pedal would stick very slightly as I released it, making the car slightly snatchy pulling away. This progressed very quickly to sticking down so I had to pull it up with my foot. The cylinder had completely failed less than a week after the first symptoms showed up and that wasn't even with daily driving.

Edited 2 December, 2016 by psycholist

[Nathanio]

Could the linkage need adjustment?

[silver1011]

Good point Nathanio, I'd not thought of that.

 

I plan to leave it until it gets worse and therefore (hopefully) easier to diagnose. If it is only the linkage then I'm guessing it shouldn't get much worse, where as if it is the master or slave cylinder then I'll notice the symptoms getting progressively worse.

 

I did notice tonight on the way home that all was good when the engine was cold, only when up to operating temperature did it rear it's ugly head.

 

Watch this space.

[silver1011]

A dodgy master or slave cylinder would give the symptoms you've described, though it should happen with all gear changes rather than just one. 1st to 2nd is the one where it should be most obvious as this is usually the shift where the synchromesh has the most work to do matching speed in the gearbox. When the slave cylinder on my car failed the first symptom was that the clutch pedal would stick very slightly as I released it, making the car slightly snatchy pulling away. This progressed very quickly to sticking down so I had to pull it up with my foot. The cylinder had completely failed less than a week after the first symptoms showed up and that wasn't even with daily driving.

 

Thanks Psycholist, I'm a little OCD with changes to my car, when you spend 3 hours a day in it you very quickly notice new noises and quirks etc. It might therefore start doing it across all gear changes as it gets worse. First to second is fine though, which as you say should be the worst.

 

Which of the two cylinders is inside the gearbox? I understand one is a relatively easy fix, the other is a 'gearbox out' job?

 

As of tonight the clutch travel, movement and biting point remain unchanged so I'll be watching with interest.

 

It has just hit 112,000 miles. Thanks for the pointers.

[wiilydog]

as above trying doing a linkage reset to see if it makes any difference.

 

[bigjohn]

Thanks Psycholist, I'm a little OCD with changes to my car, when you spend 3 hours a day in it you very quickly notice new noises and quirks etc. It might therefore start doing it across all gear changes as it gets worse. First to second is fine though, which as you say should be the worst.

 

Which of the two cylinders is inside the gearbox? I understand one is a relatively easy fix, the other is a 'gearbox out' job?

 

As of tonight the clutch travel, movement and biting point remain unchanged so I'll be watching with interest.

 

It has just hit 112,000 miles. Thanks for the pointers.

 

 

On the six speed gearboxes fitted to the 2.0 CR diesel the slave cylinder is inside the gearbox and surrounds the gearbox input shaft - so this is a gearbox out job.

 

There are two known clutch issues with this arrangement:-

• The concentric slave cylinder can fail coating all clutch components in brake/clutch fluid
• The cover plate (Sachs) can fail - this will eventually machine it's way through the gearbox casing - don't ignore as it writes the gearbox off   http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/363426-clutch-eats-gearbox-and-bank-balance/

 

Check for any leaks at the base of the bellhousing and listen for any noises

 

 

On the 5 speed 1.6 CR diesel the slave cylinder is external to the gearbox and there is a clutch operating arm so the above doesn't apply

Edited 3 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[skippy41]

mine in notchy when cold, between 1st and second, until warmed up, will ask service to check it 

[simannjo]

It could simply be something as simple as clutch plate dust build up on the input shaft splines dragging the centre plate....

Still needs the gearbox removing...

 

There is nothing more sure than 'the more you think about it, the more it will cost...'

 

Wait until there is no doubt.

Edited 3 December, 2016 by simannjo

[silver1011]

Wait until there is no doubt.

 

Good advice  :thumbup:

[bigjohn]

Good advice  :thumbup:

 

Yes but no - listen for any noise . If you wait until there is no doubt that the Sachs clutch cover/pressure plate is failing it will have already machined it's way through the gearbox casing

[silver1011]

Sure, certainly anything metallic won't be ignored.

[bigjohn]

 

However it is occasionally becoming more difficult to move from second to third and sometimes when coming out of third, almost as if I'm not pressing the clutch enough.

 

 

Just re re read the original post. - I'm now less convinced it's the clutch. If you have clutch drag (hard to go into gear) then it's usually initially difficult to engaging the lowest gears (1st & reverse) . Also a slightly dragging clutch doesn't usually cause problems moving "out" of a gear ratio. I'd second wiilydog's post re resetting gear linkage alignment - & how about a gearbox oil change?

Edited 4 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[WesBrooks]

When my clutch, flywheel, slave cylinder, and release bearing were changed I ended up having to get the gearbox casing and selector replaced too. The input shaft bearings were spinning in the case and there was significant wear on the selector. Apparently common for high mileage examples of this gearbox on VAG group cars. I did have difficulty getting it into one gear from time to time but can't remember which that was! Gearbox much nicer now.

 

Not sure how much of that you can check without the box being on the bench.

[silver1011]

I remember your tale of woe now, thanks for the heads-up, I'll be watching, or should I say listening and feeling the gear change carefully now to see if things change.

 

Just got back home after two days in a hired Peugeot 308 1.6 petrol estate, the gear box really spoilt the car, long throws, crunching at high RPM's and all but impossible to drive as smoothly as the Superb. Pretty nippy though.

[silver1011]

...how about a gearbox oil change?

 

I did think of a gearbox oil change, I had it done on our older MkII Octavia and that transformed a slightly notchy gear change.

 

I'm currently covering 150 miles a day so if there is wear in the gear box things will no doubt quickly make themselves aware!

 

Thanks for all the help chaps!

[silver1011]

A development.

 

I have a noise. I actually heard it last weekend whilst washing the car but dismissed it as I'd just started the engine from cold.

 

Tonight I thought I'd see if it was still there with a well warmed engine, it was. It sounds like a dry cambelt tensioner. I popped the bonnet but the noise was coming from the other side of the engine bay, down under the battery somewhere.

 

Dipping the clutch stops the noise, releasing the clutch brings the noise back. This is clearly clutch / gearbox related so the reluctance with the gear change has to be connected.

 

It isn't audible from inside the car but is quite obvious from outside the car, even with the bonnet shut.

 

I'll drop it into the dealer tomorrow and ask for one of the technicians to have a listen but it isn't sounding promising.

Edited 7 December, 2016 by silver1011

[DEL80Y]

Silver have you been reading this terrible thread   :sweat:

[silver1011]

Yes, but I'd been secretly hoping my issue wasn't related, I'm now fearing the worst, I certainly don't have £4,500 lying around.

[bigjohn]

A development.

 

I have a noise. I actually heard it last weekend whilst washing the car but dismissed it as I'd just started the engine from cold.

 

Tonight I thought I'd see if it was still there with a well warmed engine, it was. It sounds like a dry cambelt tensioner. I popped the bonnet but the noise was coming from the other side of the engine bay, down under the battery somewhere.

 

Dipping the clutch stops the noise, releasing the clutch brings the noise back. This is clearly clutch / gearbox related so the reluctance with the gear change has to be connected.

 

It isn't audible from inside the car but is quite obvious from outside the car, even with the bonnet shut.

 

I'll drop it into the dealer tomorrow and ask for one of the technicians to have a listen but it isn't sounding promising.

 

I'd get it recovered to the dealer , don't run it as if you've caught it in time it'll potentially save you £1000's (presuming this is the issue). If it is the cover plate issue - By running it you could be machining more off the gearbox casing

 

Still could be slave cylinder

 

Any trace of fluid under the bellhousing?  

         >>>If Brake/clutch fluid present then slave cylinder has catastrophically failed

         >>>If Gearbox oil - thee Houston you have a gearbox problem

 

 

Noise could be cover plate, DMF or slave cylinder/release bearing (one component)- Either way I think it's a gearbox off job. Presuming gearbox OK replace all clutch components including friction plate, cover plate, slave cylinder and DMF

 

 

 

Good luck

Edited 7 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[silver1011]

Gulp, this is my fault, to a tee...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/381825-check-your-clutch-very-expensive-known-fault/

[silver1011]

Just to keep this thread up to date (there are two similar threads on the first page), this morning I listened for the noise again to see if it was still there. On tick-over it was there, putting one foot in the car and pressing the clutch lever saw the sound disappear, but this time when releasing the clutch I got a pretty horrific metallic grinding noise.

 

I took the car round to a local garage, he thought it was simply the thrust bearing but I wasn't able to replicate the horrible noise, only the regular noise that is now always there. He was honest and said he couldn't look at it until next week, either way it was a 'gearbox out job' so it made sense to replace the clutch at the same time. He said it was OK to drive.

 

I rang another garage closer to work (65 miles away), they were great, they agreed that if I could get the car straight over to them they would do the full clutch and DMF today for £600 inc. VAT. They even gave me the choice of either Sachs or LUK, they had no preference and said they'd had no problems with either. After reading this I chose LUK...

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/363426-clutch-eats-gearbox-and-bank-balance/

 

Watch this space. 

[silver1011]

Wow, lucky doesn't cover it. To avoid having two similar threads running I'll update the pre-existing one linked above.