Clutch replacement 5-speed box

[TMB]

I'd just inspect the release fork and leave it if it's OK. I've changed dozens of clutches on different makes of cars and never had cause to replace the release fork. I just pop a bit of grease on the ball pivot and contact area of the release bearing.

Edited 13 December, 2016 by TMB

[bigjohn]

Diff seals should be replaced really, as they will probably be disturbed removing the shafts, same as the gearbox oil, that will need topping up afterwards anyway.

 

With the mileage on the car, I would be considering the rear crank seal as well while the box is off.

 

 

 

Rear crank seal can possibly be a good idea but are diff seals disturbed when removing the shafts? - I thought they were a bolts and flange affair on VAG cars

 

I had to change diff seal on a Fiat Punto - but it had splined driveshafts inserted into diff past the oil seals

Edited 13 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[felicia16v]

The driveshafts are flanged I usually remove the drivers side flange to make it easier to wrestle the box part the flywheel but as long as your careful you shouldn't damage the seals

[Breezy_Pete]

I'll get some pics on Saturday, but I did mention in the first post that the diff seals are weeping a little, so I probably will do those. Found a description of the process that makes it seem far easier than the ETKA parts diagram makes it appear.

Crank rear seal is confusing me a tad, as half the eBay listings show a PTFE inner bit and other half don't. The ones with are expensive!

Edited 14 December, 2016 by Wino

[octyal]

I'd just inspect the release fork and leave it if it's OK. I've changed dozens of clutches on different makes of cars and never had cause to replace the release fork. I just pop a bit of grease on the ball pivot and contact area of the release bearing.

 

You have to remember that the fork is a wear item as well - best practice to replace while the box is out - seen too many where the fork hasn't been replaced and has caused clearance issues afterwards, leading to all sorts of headaches trying to find the issue.

[Breezy_Pete]

That lever bit looks like something that local factors may well have in stock for 'purchase after failed inspection' if you see what I mean, so I can probably not worry about getting that ahead of time. Currently in stock (193VG0270) at GSF 4 miles away. Might get the little ball bit (02A141777B) beforehand though.

[octyal]

Do you mean items 10 & 12 here: Clutch lever and ball stud?

Anyone have (just) a clutch lever to look at a part number? Seems to include bearing etc when bought as item 10 there, and I already have that.

The shopping list is getting a bit alarming :sweat: :

 

Gearbox mount bolts 6Q0199767 , 2

Gearbox mount brkt bolts N 10703701 , 2

Driveshaft bolts N 91108201 , 12

Diff seals 02T409189C & 02M301189B

Crank rear seal 021103051C

Wishbone BJ bolts 3-off N 10127707

ARB link lower nut N 10261310

Gear oil 2-off G060726A2

Spline grease G000100

Plus the items 10 & 12 bits above (I guess)

 

 

Number 10 is how the bearing is supplied - with guide tube and fork, only extra bit there will be the ball pivot, number 12. A three piece clutch from the aftermarket, such as LuK or Sachs will more than likely come with the fork/guide tube as well.

[Breezy_Pete]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 11:08, octyal said:

Number 10 is how the bearing is supplied - with guide tube and fork, only extra bit there will be the ball pivot, number 12. A three piece clutch from the aftermarket, such as LuK or Sachs will more than likely come with the fork/guide tube as well.

Yeah, but you can also get just the bearing plus guide as item 7, 02T141170C, which I did, along with the friction disc and pressure plate (pictured in an earlier post) via ebay. Before I knew about the possible need for the lever bit.

 

I guess for extreme preparedness, I ought to have the input shaft seal, item 11 on that page (defined as item 11 on this page) too?

 

 

Bearing I bought:

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[Breezy_Pete]

A pre-Christmas chuckle for you all?

 

My zero-cost engine/gearbox support.  It will gain a multipurchase block-and-tackle arrangement for fine-tuning the height of the gearbox, borrowed from a sailboat.

 

The crossbeam is some sort of hardwood, and barely deflects when I stand in the middle, and I'm not 8 stone...  It's higher than it probably needs to be, but that gives more room under it for pulley systems and spannering.

 

If I'm feeling particularly cautious, I may add some triangulation under the ends.

 

 

Bodgetastic or what?

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino

[TMB]

^ I like it, Pete :D

[Breezy_Pete]

Thanks mate. :D

[felicia16v]

I just use a 2x2 steel box section with a couple of hole's in it  and 2 blocks of wood to sit it on the inner wing rails, and have a big section of 16mm allthread with a D link welded to it so I can lift or drop as required, I use it for clutches or cambelts depending which end needs supporting lol

[Breezy_Pete]

Alignment tool knocked up this lunchtime by a friend with a lathe.  Measured what the larger diameter needed to be off the friction disc, then scaled off a google photo of the genuine tool to get the smaller diameter.  (Then knocked a bit off the former and a bit more off the latter for 'elbow room' that can be adjusted upwards with tape if/as required).

 

 

This time next week I'll be able to make a start. Looking forward to it.

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[Breezy_Pete]

On ‎19‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 14:46, felicia16v said:

I just use a 2x2 steel box section with a couple of hole's in it  and 2 blocks of wood to sit it on the inner wing rails, and have a big section of 16mm allthread with a D link welded to it so I can lift or drop as required, I use it for clutches or cambelts depending which end needs supporting lol

 

Seemed like a cunning plan, so I copied it.  I don't weld, but I found M16 studding, nuts & washers 'around' and some M8 eyebolts.  Bit of drilling and tapping up the ends of the studding later...

 

 

I'll hold off drilling the holes in my crossbeam 'til the bay's a bit stripped down and the best locations are clearer. 

 

Cheers felicia16v!

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[VWD]

02 box- same as mine ? I don't remember Ally & mate using anything to lift /support engine . Gearbox drain/fill plug - found out past few days ( the hard way, or rather SIL did ) that the drain plug is on rear of box and the plug is a massive hex key,( very close to where you'd expect engine drain to be :sweat: ). Filler is on front of box, again massive hex key, but I'd suggest a plastic bottle with a "swan neck" or using a long tube from above to fill the box,as the fill plug is awkward. I've never had any problems using anything other than a a socket extension bar to align a clutch ( other than on my mates Estell) where it was a case of leaving the clutch plate floating, then fit engine and then (using a small socket set ,lock plate into position). But then , even getting the drive shafts out was a major operation.

Oil ,BTW, is 75 Synthetic ,all 2 Litre of it.

[Breezy_Pete]

This has an 02T box, yours is 02R I think. Fill/drain plugs use 17mm male hex tool which I have. Locations sound quite different though.

 

Removing the gearbox without anything to lift or support the engine sounds like a neat trick, given that two out of three engine mounts have to be undone.

 

Genuine oil on hand, cheap @ £7/litre.

 

Fill plug's here, drain more or less opposite on t'other side of diff, lower down, more under the driveshaft than alongside:

 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[Breezy_Pete]

Box is off (bit of a mission TBH). 

Old friction disc was down to rivets on both sides, marked the flywheel but not to any fingernail-detectable extent; quite a groove on the pressure plate though:

 

 

 

Will inspect the clutch lever later on, and pop up some pics for opinions on replacement vs reusing.

No sign at all of leakage from rear engine seal, nor from slave cylinder - although the convoluted rubber boot has a split - so I'll have to make a call on whether to replace either or both. Seems a shame not to do the seal, knowing how hard it is to access now!

 

Got held up by two out of three of the octagonal, welded on nuts on one of the balljoint fixing plates, becoming unwelded and needing to be sawn off.

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[Breezy_Pete]

It's almost annoying how easy the actual clutch change is, compared to the grief of the overall job.

 

Box back on about an hour ago, might've been quite a bit later if the missus hadn't wandered out to see how I was getting on and ended up being a very valuable assistant.  My centring tool worked a treat, I'll pop up the final, tape-shimmed dimensions tomorrow when it's all done and dusted. My M16 studding with eyebolts in the end also worked pretty well (cheers again felicia16v :)), would've been a whole lot better if I'd picked a smaller size that fitted a ratchet spanner I own...

 

Haven't got the energy to waffle on any more just now.  We were supposed to be out this afternoon visiting friends but within 300 metres of departing in the Polo, a really offensive knocking noise started coming from the front right corner. So we turned round and found this after an exploratory jacking:

 

 

Cheers 2016...

Edited 19 June, 2018 by Wino
pic fix

[garethw]

Look on the bright side at least your clutch was worn out. Mine was more or less half way worn.

Must admit my release arm had no wear on it I could detect.

[TMB]

Well done with the clutch job, Pete. I guess you must have reused the original release arm?

 

Bad luck with the Polo spring. Looks like that spring had been broken for quite some time judging by the rust at the break point.

 

There's always something with bloody cars! :D

Edited 31 December, 2016 by TMB

[Breezy_Pete]

Well done with the clutch job, Pete. I guess you must have reused the original release arm?

 

Bad luck with the Polo spring. There's always something with bloody cars! :D

 

Yep, looked fine to me,  I was quite relaxed about it until garethw's post above. :D

I think the Polo will remain driveable with that bit missing, and if it does carve up the bottom spring seat a bit, who cares, the whole strut will be getting changed out along with the spring, topmount, bearing etc. When I regain some enthusiasm for outdoor, mid-winter carfixing. :sweat:

[TMB]

Yep, looked fine to me,  I was quite relaxed about it until garethw's post above. :D

 

 

He's only saying the disc was half way worn not the release arm :)

 

When I regain some enthusiasm for outdoor, mid-winter carfixing. :sweat:

 

 

 

Yes it's hard, miserable work.

[Breezy_Pete]

He's only saying the disc was half way worn not the release arm :)

 

 

Yes it's hard, miserable work.

 

Ah, I read that as "I had to take the box off 'cos there was something not working right, and it was the release arm", but now I'm realising (cheers!) that if there was no detectable wear it wouldn't be the reason for him taking the box off. Why were you in there if the clutch wasn't worn out, Gareth, an upgrade for remapped engine?

[TMB]

Maybe he's a masochist and likes taking gearboxes off :D

[Breezy_Pete]

I'll tell you what, if the Polo's clutch needs doing anytime soon, it ain't gonna be me doing it. :notme: