Mercedes see a future for high performance diesels

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/next-gen-mercedes-engines-bring-48v-electrics-and-the-return-of-the-straight-six-46903?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=outbrain&utm_campaign=ob_editorial&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain_cpc

2 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Mercedes see a future for high performance diesels

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/next-gen-mercedes-engines-bring-48v-electrics-and-the-return-of-the-straight-six-46903?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=outbrain&utm_campaign=ob_editorial&utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Outbrain_cpc

 

No mention of its NOX performance (whilst they talk about CO2 and PMs) so is that much better I wonder?

 

I get the impression that certain car companies are glazing over this issue both in their spiel and in the showroom selling.  Owner then suddenly realises that they have to top up the ADBlue every fifth tank of diesel and bung in 2 or 3 five litre AdBlue jugs http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adblue

 

Adblue is now over a £1 a litre (it is not mainly made in the UK so much of it is imported from the EU) ie similar cost to diesel/petrol albeit a litre of AdBlue is consumed every 400 miles VW say (maybe a pinch of salt inline with their MPG claims). So not a huge cost ie 0.3 pence per mile but eats in to the 2 p a mile that diesel is suppose to cheaper than petrol cars but how many users are going to arrive at work with a blue streak down them after splash back.  A with diesel usually weighing more than petrol cars and now they are carrying another 25 Kgs of AdBlue equipment.  Takes me back to the days of putting two stroke oil in my motorbikes (some up to 500cc which drank a lot).  

 

 

    

 

    

 

 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by lol-lol

It seems some AdBlue using diesel owners don't have to add between scheduled servicing.

Major cities would have substantial relief if a magic wand could convert old ones to Euro6.

I haven't seen a real world NOx comparison between Euro5 v Euro6 Mercs frinstance.

 

apparently only nerds would be interested, is the reason 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Ryeman

lol-lol,  really blue streaks from Ad-blue?  LOL

 

As to Ad-blue usage, i have a indicated 7,000 mile range on the Ad-blue with a 2.0TDI 150ps & after 3,500 miles the range is still showing 5,000 miles.

MPG over 3,500 miles has been 42 mpg from diesel put in since picking up with 10 miles on the clock.

40's mpg easy to get at Motorway Speeds, 50's in 60 mph Average Speed Limit areas, and into the 60's MPG through 50 mph Average Speed Camera Areas or routes.

(on a vehicle with  an kerb weight over 1,800kg, so more than 2,000 kg as being used.)

Comes from probable the best of the TDI's yet and the 6 speed DSG with very good Stop / Start, Auto Hold and especially the excellent 'Coasting' function.

 

A Investigation seems to be ongoing into how VW Group were doing Co2 Testing late in 2015 and the vehicles being tested.

More again on the Co2 Irregularities which became Implausible Co2 & changes in some vehicles 'Official figures'.

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

It seems some AdBlue using diesel owners don't have to add between scheduled servicing.

Major cities would have substantial relief if a magic wand could convert old ones to Euro6.

 

Maybe if you are only doing 6,000 miles or 10K Kms a year per service but then one would have to question why you have a diesel car in a country where diesel is 3% more expensive per litre and 5 to 10% more to buy in the first place and residuals are starting to drop down towards petrol cars?

 

The only good reason I can really think of is if one tows and I would give the wiesel car the nod on being a better towing vehicle usually, but you can get them and have a car that is fun when not towing...   http://www.thetowcarawards.com/winners/2016-best-petrol-tow-car/

 

 

Living in the country, I'll take 180ps and 400nm plus 60mpg average in the new 3008 to replace our two.

Diesel is 6p/L less here

lol-lol,

 Have you ever towed using large capacity petrol engines on vehicles with a decent towing ability, say 2,400 kg plus, older or even modern?

Obviously the NSL would be 60 mph max in the UK, but as for expense, it is up to each to decide.

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

4 minutes ago, Offski said:

lol-lol,  really blue streaks from Ad-blue?  LOL

 

As to Ad-blue usage, i have a indicated 7,000 mile rage on the Ad-blue with a 2.0TDI 150ps & after 3,500 miles the range is still showing 5,000 miles.

MPG over 3,500 miles has been 42 mpg from diesel put in since picking up with 10 miles on the clock.

(on a vehicle with  an kerb weight over 1,800kg, so more than 2,000 kg as being used.)

 

A Investigation seems to be ongoing into how VW Group were doing Co2 Testing late in 2015 and the vehicles being tested.

More again on the Co2 Irregularities which became Implausible Co2 & changes in some vehicles 'Official figures'.

 

I can just see some petite lady trying to glug AdBlue into her Merc and dropping the can on the forecourt and it going everywhere. 

 

I think users in the non urban area, like most of Eastern Scotland, may well get up to 10K miles from their AdBlue tank but sat in the dreadful Aberdeen traffic at rush hour from the airport to a meeting in the city the consumption of fuel and ADBlue would suffer.  That is where it is needed and driving around the roads outside the city the ADBlue is really not needed at all as the exhaust gases waft out over the North Sea and arrive in Norway a day or two later. Perhaps we could have the ADBLue system only switch one when the vehicle arrives in an urban post code and then the AD Blue would last even longer. 

 

Go look in the Ad-blue post in the Yeti section.

For someone that does lots of miles and even fills up at Motorway Filling stations you seem to have some lack of knowledge of fuel and peoples usage.

A bit sexist as well maybe.

Look at Men around that do not read owners manuals or information on containers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AdWzx6svYkM

 

You know what the 'Taxis' are in Aberdeen if you visit there anymore.

 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

14 minutes ago, Offski said:

lol-lol,

 Have you ever towed using large capacity petrol engines on vehicles with a decent towing ability, say 2,400 kg plus, older or even modern?

Obviously the NSL would be 60 mph max in the UK, but as for expense, it is up to each to decide.

 

Only with Land Rovers which were sometimes the petrol versions and usually to tow a car and trailer to a race.  Yes very expensive on fuel indeed but that is part of the game and the car owner usually had a way round that cost ie company fuel grey area.   

24 minutes ago, Offski said:

Go look in the Ad-blue post in the Yeti section.

For someone that does lots of miles and even fills up at Motorway Filling stations you seem to have some lack of knowledge of fuel and peoples usage.

A bit sexist as well maybe.

Look at Men around that do not read owners manuals or information on containers.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AdWzx6svYkM

 

You know what the 'Taxis' are in Aberdeen if you visit there anymore.

 

 

What a palava.  I can see some owners refusing to do that and choosing to pop in to their dealer to have this done (my Aunt would not even fill her car with fuel and throw the keys at someone to sort it out (did have her own fuel depot though a uncle owned a large haulage fleet.)

 

I am usually chauffeured by my awful nice staff at Dyce in to town.  Maybe there is a change to the liquid gold in Aberdeen from oil to beer I hear ???? 

 

Just as well there are choices, shanks pony, Petrols, LPG's, EV's. Hybrids, Hydrogens, public transport in petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen, gas even coal.

Horses for course.

 

Best read up on the Brew-dog front, there might be issues there now.

http://northsound1.com/localnews/row-brewing-over-brewdog-expansion-plans

 

A nice road or 2 north from Aberdeen to Banff or to Peterhead & Fraserburgh might be a good idea if Nicola Sturgeon MSP & Alex Salmond MP (Author/Journalist & Public Speaker and expenses paid traveller) who is a local sometimes could be bothered spending in the North East, & not just a by-pass for Aberdeen, since much of the UK Economy from Exports depends on the transport & trade on those roads..

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

2 hours ago, Offski said:

Just as well there are choices, shanks pony, Petrols, LPG's, EV's. Hybrids, Hydrogens, public transport in petrol, diesel, electric, hydrogen, gas even coal.

Horses for course.

 

Best read up on the Brew-dog front, there might be issues there now.

http://northsound1.com/localnews/row-brewing-over-brewdog-expansion-plans

 

A nice road or 2 north from Aberdeen to Banff or to Peterhead & Fraserburgh might be a good idea if Nicola Sturgeon MSP & Alex Salmond MP (Author/Journalist & Public Speaker and expenses paid traveller) who is a local sometimes could be bothered spending in the North East, & not just a by-pass for Aberdeen, since much of the UK Economy from Exports depends on the transport & trade on those roads..

 

From 1st April the leanings of government become clearer with road tax having to be paid on all cars, except EVs, at a much higher rate than currently, which adds another £1K to owning a particular car type ie efficient petrol/diesel or hybrid, on EV exempt, same for London congestion charge.

Only if you are going to be owning one registered after April. 

Many will be leasing and many will be for business use not private so just add it all to the cost of living.

Someone has to keep the economy running.

 

Many will just continue being chauffeured around by their employers and that will be customers paying what ever that costs ultimately.

Could be private customers or the general public.

 

EV Taxis do rather well in Dundee where the fleet used to be (silver) Mercedes diesels.

Its horses for courses.

 

PS.

At least Nicola Sturgeon MSP had her Transport Minister up to the North East last week for another photo opportunity.

(hopefully in a properly insured vehicle this time unlike when he went north of Inverness.)

http://insidemoray.com/whisky-road-costing-haulage-firm-1k-a-month-in-broken-mirrors

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Owner then suddenly realises that they have to top up the ADBlue every fifth tank of diesel and bung in 2 or 3 five litre AdBlue jugs

 

Not even close, maybe every 10 tankfuls if you are unlucky

 

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

Adblue is now over a £1 a litre (it is not mainly made in the UK so much of it is imported from the EU) ie similar cost to diesel/petrol

 

Maybe if you are stupid enough to buy it at a motorway service station,

why not buy it at the pump for less than 70p a litre?

 

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

a litre of AdBlue is consumed every 400 miles VW say

 

Again you are a mile off, I can get 9K miles from approx 10 litres of AdBlue

 

4 hours ago, lol-lol said:

how many users are going to arrive at work with a blue streak down them after splash back.

 

As a rough calculation .... non, AdBlue despite its name is clear, use a pump and it will not splash back anyway, I do not buy my diesel in 5 ltr containers so why the hell would I buy AdBlue that way?

 

Do you really have ANY IDEA about what AdBlue is?

How about you have a rant about something you know about?

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Gizmo68

The improved economy pays for in any case 

1 hour ago, Offski said:

Only if you are going to be owning one registered after April.   Many will be leasing and many will be for business use not private so just add it all to the cost of living.  Someone has to keep the economy running.   Many will just continue being chauffeured around by their employers and that will be customers paying what ever that costs ultimately.  Could be private customers or the general public.  EV Taxis do rather well in Dundee where the fleet used to be (silver) Mercedes diesels. Its horses for courses.  PS.  At least Nicola Sturgeon MSP had her Transport Minister up to the North East last week for another photo opportunity.  (hopefully in a properly insured vehicle this time unlike when he went north of Inverness.)  http://insidemoray.com/whisky-road-costing-haulage-firm-1k-a-month-in-broken-mirrors

 

Taxation to influence purchasing is presumably what it is about and it is a bi-product if it adds a bit to the taxi drivers out-going and then indirectly on to taxi users.  It is useful for me to travel with local staff in to meeting in Aberdeen, or wherever, and useful to talk during the journey to the client.  We will hopefully get some of our EVs at Dyce so we can use them to pop in to town, I gather we have 500 RHD ones arriving in the UK in the next few months and our offices will have up to 10 EV charge points at the location and a couple of EV pool cars.  As usual good technical site on Aberdeen and Scottish air pollution with hourly monitoring of NOX and PMs..http://www.scottishairquality.co.uk/latest/site-info?site_id=ABD3&view=graphing

 

Checking air pollution levels at an Airport / Heliport seems about as good as checking at Bus Stations / Bus Stances / Terminals. (Wink)

 

Simply Clever would be Mobile units from the DfT & whoever going out and checking vehicles with Diesel or Petrol Engines running while covering Zero MPG at Taxi Ranks and Bus Stations.

Then get the legislation in place that vehicles idling are illegal while at the side of the highway or on land open to the public.

 

....................

This roadside check amused me, and when i was asked why i was taking photos the person was amused as well because the Police BMW had sat since i first passed and then returned some time later and the engine was still running.

 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

2 hours ago, Gizmo68 said:

 

Not even close, maybe every 10 tankfuls if you are unlucky

Just going on VWs own figures which are in the link I inserted. Here it is again for you...  http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/technology/diesel/adblue

 

SUK have not bothered to do a similar page for AdBlue that VW have up on their website.  

 

Reading your posts you certainly have had an change of heart where you described the system as a botch.

 

"Most larger petrol stations sell it in 10L containers as well as via the pump (for HGV’s) not much use for a Yeti but for cars with the adblue cap next to the fuel cap it’s ideal as it’s a lot cheaper to buy it via the pump (60p per litre is the cheapest I have seen it).Whilst it is not impossible to refill the 10L container via the pump it is hard work as the nozzle ‘needs’ to be in the filler neck for the adblue to flow freely, otherwise it will keep cutting out. Gixmo68

 

So do Skodas, the Yeti was never designed to run on adblue though, hence the bodge job of the tank location".  Gixmo68

 

 

Quote

 

Maybe if you are stupid enough to buy it at a motorway service station,  why not buy it at the pump for less than 70p a litre?

 

See your comments above.  If it is easier to just grab a five litre than drive over to the AdBlue pump how many would bother for a quid or two? (you for one)  

 

Quote

 

Again you are a mile off, I can get 9K miles from approx 10 litres of AdBlue

 

As above going on VWs figures and we are talking about bigger Merc engines not just the 1.6-2 litre four-pots. 

 

Quote

 

As a rough calculation .... non, AdBlue despite its name is clear, use a pump and it will not splash back anyway, I do not buy my diesel in 5 ltr containers so why the hell would I buy AdBlue that way?

 

It seems to be the way most people may it than have another level of faf at the petrol station.  If I did have an AdBlue diesel (and I would not in the UK but only if I lived in a country where diesel was actually cheaper than petrol and I had my conscious moved about pollution) then I would probably order from the likes of Europarts where I can get my 30 to 55% discount and top up in private where people cannot see I have a dirty diesel that requires to take medicine to be legal.  

 

Quote

Do you really have ANY IDEA about what AdBlue is?   How about you have a rant about something you know about?

 

Family owns one of the largest haulage business in the country and I work for one of the top ten logistics companies in the world.  Environment is one of key concerns whether it is our carbon footprint and pollution of NOX and PMs in cities all over the world and London is one of our key concerns along with Sadiq Khan.

Thanks for you information above in this and other threads, all adds people decision making process about their next cars, cheers. 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by lol-lol

2 hours ago, Gizmo68 said:

 

Not even close, maybe every 10 tankfuls if you are unlucky

 

 

Maybe if you are stupid enough to buy it at a motorway service station,

why not buy it at the pump for less than 70p a litre?

 

 

Again you are a mile off, I can get 9K miles from approx 10 litres of AdBlue

 

 

As a rough calculation .... non, AdBlue despite its name is clear, use a pump and it will not splash back anyway, I do not buy my diesel in 5 ltr containers so why the hell would I buy AdBlue that way?

 

Do you really have ANY IDEA about what AdBlue is?

How about you have a rant about something you know about?

 nice on all counts

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Reading your posts you certainly have had an change of heart where you described the system as a botch.

 

"Most larger petrol stations sell it in 10L containers as well as via the pump (for HGV’s) not much use for a Yeti but for cars with the adblue cap next to the fuel cap it’s ideal as it’s a lot cheaper to buy it via the pump (60p per litre is the cheapest I have seen it).Whilst it is not impossible to refill the 10L container via the pump it is hard work as the nozzle ‘needs’ to be in the filler neck for the adblue to flow freely, otherwise it will keep cutting out. Gixmo68

 

Did you read the bit you highlighted?

Refill the 10L container (granted some are 5L)... as in the ones you buy at the forecourt not the tank fitted to the car,

 

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Reading your posts you certainly have had an change of heart where you described the system as a botch.

 

So do Skodas, the Yeti was never designed to run on adblue though, hence the bodge job of the tank location".  Gixmo68

 

Yes the Yeti is a bodge, who in their right mind would put the filler neck inside the car? 

Any car designed from scratch to use AdBlue has the filler right next to the diesel filler cap... where it should be.

 

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

See your comments above.  If it is easier to just grab a five litre than drive over to the AdBlue pump how many would bother for a quid or two? (you for one)  

 

How is it easier?

Is it easier to put a gallon of fuel in the car from a plastic petrol can or directly from the pump? it’s hardly a quid or two either, unless you like topping the tank up when it gets to half full, so you are paying 40p+ per litre more for the same stuff... in a container that is harder to use 

 

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

Family owns one of the largest haulage business in the country and I work for one of the top ten logistics companies in the world.  

 

Says it all then really, as I work in the industry too, many who work in the offices would not know one end of a truck to the other, let alone how to drive one, yet they are all too willing to make and enforce their rules for those with 30+ years experience to follow.

 

the following has never been more apt:

 

 

No doubt there are areas which you do know how to do your job, but please don’t comment on areas where you clearly have no idea or experience. 

2 hours ago, Gizmo68 said:

 

Did you read the bit you highlighted? Refill the 10L container (granted some are 5L)... as in the ones you buy at the forecourt not the tank fitted to the car,

Yes the Yeti is a bodge, who in their right mind would put the filler neck inside the car?  Any car designed from scratch to use AdBlue has the filler right next to the diesel filler cap... where it should be.  

How is it easier?

Is it easier to put a gallon of fuel in the car from a plastic petrol can or directly from the pump? it’s hardly a quid or two either, unless you like topping the tank up when it gets to half full, so you are paying 40p+ per litre more for the same stuff... in a container that is harder to use 

Says it all then really, as I work in the industry too, many who work in the offices would not know one end of a truck to the other, let alone how to drive one, yet they are all too willing to make and enforce their rules for those with 30+ years experience to follow.  the following has never been more apt:

No doubt there are areas which you do know how to do your job, but please don’t comment on areas where you clearly have no idea or experience. 

 

My pointing out of information, such as the VW website details on ADBlue range and details of costs of where to buy it and comments like yours are all there to prompt discussion and invoke user experiences which you have admirably by stating your experience of running an AdBlue car for a good while and it is for potential users to consider all of this in the round.  My experience of transport is as doing a 4 year diesel engine apprentice from the Merchant Navy and then doing a science degree with a year studying thermodynamics and all the information in my 35 years of being involved with diesels is that the sooner we can consign their use in light vehicles to history the better as with AdBlue they become even more expensive to produce and run and we will see if the theory that the SCR system can reduce NOX by a factor of ten there is also some feedback that the reduction might on be two to five times.  The Economist put it well I thought....

http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21688109-end-road-clean-affordable-diesel-cars-dieselgate-dilemma

 

While selective catalytic reduction (SCR) can remove 90% or more of the NOx, it requires a bulky tank for the urea solution, a pump to do the squirting and extensive plumbing—features that are difficult to fit under the floorpan or inside the boot of a small passenger car. Adding to the hassle and cost, the urea tank has to be refilled every 10,000 miles or so. Also, the vehicles have to be programmed so as not to restart if the urea tank runs dry. For those who value the diesel's high mileage and long range, these are inconveniences they have to accept.  The BlueTec system pioneered by Mercedes is regarded as one of the best SCR systems around. Volkswagen licensed the technology a decade ago, but later ended the agreement, choosing to develop its own SCR system instead. Many believe it should have swallowed its pride and stuck with the BlueTec deal. To wriggle through the EPA’s tough emission test, the three-litre diesel engine Volkswagen uses in its own SUVs as well as those built by its Audi and Porsche brands was subsequently found to have resorted to similar software shenanigans as the disgraced two-litre engine.  Rumors abound that Volkswagen is rushing out a new catalytic converter to solve at least the two-litre engine’s woes. But so do tales of Volkswagen offering to buy back tainted diesel cars from disgruntled American owners. The resale values of some 580,000 Volkswagen diesel-engined vehicles sold in the United States in recent years have taken a serious beating.  Can Volkswagen recover from the scandal? In America, heavy advertising and special discounts will likely let it to claw back its lost market share, if not its reputation. Firestone overcame the rollover issues caused by its delaminating tyres. Toyota eventually managed to put behind it those sticky-throttles that caused runaway acceleration. General Motors seems to have contained the uproar over its faulty ignition switches. But in each of those cases, the actions, though tragic, were not premeditated. The damage done by Volkswagen’s cynical and ethically challenged behaviour could well prove fatal to the future of diesel technology in the United States.  

At this stage, it is premature to talk about the death of the diesel engine. Diesel trucks and large passenger cars, with their relatively clean exhausts, will doubtless soldier on. But who needs a small diesel? In terms of fuel economy, small turbo-charged petrol engines have all but caught up. 

    

 

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by lol-lol

The Blue-Tec / SCR systems from Mercedes are being investigated because the tanks size and Ad-blue usage is not high enough to be doing the job it was thought to or touted to.

As was the issue for VW in the USA,

the Ad-Blue usage to actually meet the Emissions standard if operating on the road when and where it should to reduce the NoX would have required huge tanks.

 

I can not suss the situation with how my Ad-blue range is showing compared to the vehicles use, time will tell as the miles go on.

(No ad-blue expense it is in the service plan, top up can be done at a dealers, No charge.)

Edited 29 January, 20179 yr by Offski

14 hours ago, Offski said:

The Blue-Tec / SCR systems from Mercedes are being investigated because the tanks size and Ad-blue usage is not high enough to be doing the job it was thought to or touted to.

As was the issue for VW in the USA,

the Ad-Blue usage to actually meet the Emissions standard if operating on the road when and where it should to reduce the NoX would have required huge tanks.

 

I can not suss the situation with how my Ad-blue range is showing compared to the vehicles use, time will tell as the miles go on.

(No ad-blue expense it is in the service plan, top up can be done at a dealers, No charge.)

 

That is good.  If only we can get some of the dealers not to top up the screen wash and charge the earth for the privilege of them doing it rather than me at a princely sum that would be good.  Try to remember to fill to the brim before service but sometimes forget.