Rejecting failed 2nd hand car - cut and dried legal rights?

[Jono]

 

Brother in law bought a 2nd hand automatic car (not Skoda).

 

Within 3 days/100miles the engine seized, shot a conrod through the block and dumped the oil on the motorway.

 

BIL is out of the country.

 

Mother in law is dealing with the dealership.

 

My advice is to reject the car for a full refund and not accept them transplanting a new engine into it. I don't think anyone will disagree on this.

 

I'm worried they will talk her into keeping a lemon.

 

Can someone direct me to a cast-iron source of info that she can print out and wave at them whilst demanding a refund and refusing their offers to "put things right" or "fix" it.

 

Already looked at Which.co.uk - but looking for something a bit more matter-of-fact for her.

 

 

Thanks in advance guys.

 

 

[Huskoda]

I believe the Consumer Rights Act 2015 only allows a total rejection after the trader has an attempt at repair or replacement:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1/chapter/2/crossheading/what-remedies-are-there-if-statutory-rights-under-a-goods-contract-are-not-met/enacted

 

24

 

(5)A consumer who has the right to a price reduction and the final right to reject may only exercise one (not both), and may only do so in one of these situations—

(a)after one repair or one replacement, the goods do not conform to the contract;

(b)because of section 23(3) the consumer can require neither repair nor replacement of the goods; or

(c)the consumer has required the trader to repair or replace the goods, but the trader is in breach of the requirement of section 23(2)(a) to do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer.

 

You could argue arranging an engine swap would violate 23(3)(a) however as you are suffering loss from being deprived of the working car while they hunt an engine.

Edited 9 February, 2017 by Huskoda

[davidwhite]

Bit difficult to advise on this unless you state what the seller and more importantly who the seller is, has to say or what they are prepared to do, if the car was bought privately " as seen tried and tested " the buyer may have little comeback, the wording on any advertisement may also be taken into account, but even FSH, recent service new mot etc can't prevent  unforeseen mechanical failure

If the car is under warranty then as the block and engine internals are shot how else would the seller be able to repair it without replacing the engine of course you can expect the seller to take the car back but that doesn't mean they have too

[Breezy_Pete]

50 minutes ago, Jono said:

 

...My advice is to reject the car for a full refund and not accept them transplanting a new engine into it. I don't think anyone will disagree on this.

 

I'm worried they will talk her into keeping a lemon...

 

 

 

A broken engine won't have infected the car with brokenness, so I disagree with your advice.

[Adam_]

I successfully returned a second hand car to the dealer for a full refund approx 4 months after purchase.

 

Trading standards can help but you will need to work with the seller. I think the seller has a duty to offer a fix or refund within 6 months of the sale (I Think) Private sales are different though. (I Think)

 

I was offered a full engine rebuild but had to pay £400 contribution, I refused.

 

They refunded me the full amount paid.

 

Edited 9 February, 2017 by Adam_

[Adam_]

Just to add. It helps if you record all phone conversations with the seller. I know it helped me.

 

[Dr Zoidberg]

How old is the car, what was the mileage and are they suggesting a new engine, a reconditioned one or something from a scrappy?

A replacement engine could actually leave you better off than you would have been, so I wouldn't rule it out.
If they are talking about a cheap bodge job with something with no history, firmly tell them to F*** off.

[999pooch]

Summary of what time limits apply for purchased goods thats are faulty (Consumer Rights act 2015).

 

Copied from from Citizens Advice website.

 

I would just verify that it applies to 2nd cars before going in guns blazin'

 

Edit: apparently it does - see link

 

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights

 

Consumer Right Act 2015 is your friend

 

 

Edited 9 February, 2017 by 999pooch
Found answer and posted it :)

[Jono]

I believe a sticking point may be the difference between there being a problem at point of purchase and it happening afterwards.

 

If something goes bang within a hundred miles is that just chance, or "reasonable proof" that something was amiss when purchased.

 

It's worth noting it is an automatic, so no risk of him accidentally dropping it into second on the motorway etc.

 

[SheffieldVRS]

Depends on what it is and how much he paid for it.  If it’s a retail car then he has consumer rights but if it was advertised as trade in/priced to clear etc even though it was being sold via a dealer then the waters get a bit muddier.  They usually carry a disclaimer when being sold, so do you have the invoice for sale?

[Ootohere]

Make no difference when the Trader is a Trader unless they are selling for Spares or Repair a non runner.

 

So what matters is Who sold it and what they are saying now and what they are prepared to do about it, and are they accepting back the vehicle not fit for purpose or do they dispute that it was not fit for purpose.  They are the Trader as recognised by the HMRC is that is what their company does, 

ie buy and sell cars, not sell Scrap.

[SheffieldVRS]

23 minutes ago, Offski said:

Make no difference when the Trader is a Trader unless they are selling for Spares or Repair a non runner.

 

That was my point, as trade in with no warranty implied but they usually carry a disclaimer on sale.  May be a moot point depending on what the BIL has purchased and from who.

[Ootohere]

As a trader if they are they are held by the Sale of Goods act and the regulations that refer to Motor Vehicles with no get outs.

Forget the warranty stuff, 3 months or 300 yards. 

[SheffieldVRS]

12 minutes ago, Offski said:

As a trader if they are they are held by the Sale of Goods act and the regulations that refer to Motor Vehicles with no get outs.

Forget the warranty stuff, 3 months or 300 yards. 

 

You learn something new every day.  I thought they could enter a contract for sold as seen if you sign a disclaimer.

[999pooch]

Just to reiterate what I posted earlier-

 

it is now the 'Consumer Rights Act 2015' you need to quote.

 

The 'Sales of Goods Act' has been superseded

[Jono]

Cheers guys, all useful input.