Dash cams/Data protection ?

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Why is it getting tedious? Because I'm pointing potential flaws in the use of dash cams on private property then providing the guidelines and rules of their use and advising the readers of this thread how they can justifiably use them whilst there car is in another persons hands? 

 

Im saying "you can't use them without following guidelines" and everyone else is saying "we'll use them anyway" seems a little immature and one sided. 

Im the only person in this thread (from what I can gather) who's on the other end of the stick on this subject, there's no other techs or dealer staff here to voice their opinion.

 

I unplug them, my employer supports that and as I've already said - have a Seat by the window and watch me but recording me or my colleagues is not an option. 

 

My honest 2 cents on this subject (and I'll leave it at this) - I'm fully aware that there are thousands of poor garages out there that abuse their customers trust and I can understand people want to protect their investment but if you wish to film people in charge of your car whilst you are not present then you need to make sure that it's safe, justifiable and legal to do so. 

 

If and when the law changes to accommodate the use of foreign cameras in private property, without owners permission I will then embrace it, but for the time being I'll continue to unplug them then plug them back in before customer hand over. 

[CWARD]

James, I understand what you are saying but in the end it creates distrust. As already mentioned the most the camera will capture will be the car being driven in and out of the service bays and on a test drive. Whilst it is being serviced it will see the bonnet raised. If you feel this is an invasion of your privacy then it raises serious concerns as to just what is happening in these short period of driving.

I would also look into where you stand with your employer in regards to handling equipment outside of scope of the service required. Any damage caused to the dash cam equipment caused by unplugging it including loss of data and the customer would be well within their rights to claim compensation. If your T&C's state that recording equipment within the car cannot be used whilst work is being undertaken by your employer then it should also be that customer must disable said equipment and acknowledge that this has been done. If you find a car still has the dash cam active then you should refuse to touch it until done which may involve calling the customer back. This will no doubt require additional handover checks and time with the customer.

I know that my local Skoda dealer has no such policies and my dash cam footage of the service, which I didn't view, would be pointless for the reasons stated above. 

[gRoberts]

40 minutes ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

Why is it getting tedious? Because I'm pointing potential flaws in the use of dash cams on private property then providing the guidelines and rules of their use and advising the readers of this thread how they can justifiably use them whilst there car is in another persons hands? 

 

Im saying "you can't use them without following guidelines" and everyone else is saying "we'll use them anyway" seems a little immature and one sided. 

Im the only person in this thread (from what I can gather) who's on the other end of the stick on this subject, there's no other techs or dealer staff here to voice their opinion.

 

I unplug them, my employer supports that and as I've already said - have a Seat by the window and watch me but recording me or my colleagues is not an option. 

 

My honest 2 cents on this subject (and I'll leave it at this) - I'm fully aware that there are thousands of poor garages out there that abuse their customers trust and I can understand people want to protect their investment but if you wish to film people in charge of your car whilst you are not present then you need to make sure that it's safe, justifiable and legal to do so. 

 

If and when the law changes to accommodate the use of foreign cameras in private property, without owners permission I will then embrace it, but for the time being I'll continue to unplug them then plug them back in before customer hand over. 

 

The tedious part is the constant quoting of laws, which whilst you have a valid point, won't help businesses when someone has proof of foul play. 

 

Just because footage was captured illegally/immorally, doesn't change what was captured.

 

Either way, I don't particularly trust anyone that handles my property without me present. This is why I take mileage readings before/after etc. I've been burnt too many times.

 

If businesses/mechanics oppose to being recorded by dashcams etc, the business should point this out, as clear as the CCTV signs you have present, so they can decide whether to continue with their transaction. 

[mrj2k8]

On 2/25/2017 at 15:05, James@RRGRochdale said:

We have a very transparent approach and often invite people in the workshop to see what work we carry out or what faults we find. We have a window and a camera for viewing plus we send a video inspection to every customer. 

 

Like I said - we've nothing to hide but we also have the right not to be spied on. 

 

 

As is your right to have your car serviced at a dealer that doesn't have a problem with your dash cam, if they messed with mine it would be the first and last time they did it.

[mrj2k8]

11 hours ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

Why is it getting tedious? Because I'm pointing potential flaws in the use of dash cams on private property then providing the guidelines and rules of their use and advising the readers of this thread how they can justifiably use them whilst there car is in another persons hands? 

 

Im saying "you can't use them without following guidelines" and everyone else is saying "we'll use them anyway" seems a little immature and one sided. 

Im the only person in this thread (from what I can gather) who's on the other end of the stick on this subject, there's no other techs or dealer staff here to voice their opinion.

 

I unplug them, my employer supports that and as I've already said - have a Seat by the window and watch me but recording me or my colleagues is not an option. 

 

My honest 2 cents on this subject (and I'll leave it at this) - I'm fully aware that there are thousands of poor garages out there that abuse their customers trust and I can understand people want to protect their investment but if you wish to film people in charge of your car whilst you are not present then you need to make sure that it's safe, justifiable and legal to do so. 

 

If and when the law changes to accommodate the use of foreign cameras in private property, without owners permission I will then embrace it, but for the time being I'll continue to unplug them then plug them back in before customer hand over. 

 

Oh the irony don't use your foreign made dash cam to hold us to account  whilst we service your 20 / 30k  foreign car  (and I'll leave it at this) cough...

 

 

[FluffyEyeball]

16 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Oh the irony don't use your foreign made dash cam to hold us to account  whilst we service your 20 / 30k  foreign car  (and I'll leave it at this) cough...

 

 

 Pretty sure he actually meant foreign as in the cameras are foreign to that establishment . They have not come from and do not belong to that company or any related companies, it's owners or staff; and nor are they operating on behalf of that company or within the scope of it's policies. 

 

Regardless of your opinions on this matter the law is plain: The owner of that property can, at his or her will, allow or refuse the use of any recording equipment on or within it. Anyone who doesn't like this is welcome to find someone/somewhere else whom shares their opinion; and start a petition requesting the law be changed.

 

In any case, even if you were allowed to waltz into a garage workshop with your dash cam, is that really going to stop wrongdoing? Don't you think that most people who were to do malicious or neglegent things would just unplug them anyway...

Edited 1 March, 2017 by FluffyEyeball

[mrj2k8]

4 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 Pretty sure he actually meant foreign as in the cameras are foreign to that establishment . They have not come from and do not belong to that company or any related companies, it's owners or staff; and nor are they operating on behalf of that company or within the scope of it's policies. 

 

Regardless of your opinions on this matter the law is plain: The owner of that property can, at his or her will, allow or refuse the use of any recording equipment on or within it. Anyone who doesn't like this is welcome to find someone/somewhere else whom shares their opinion; and start a petition requesting the law be changed.

 

In any case, even if you were allowed to waltz into a garage workshop with your dash cam, is that really going to stop wrongdoing? Don't you think that most people who were to do malicious or neglegent things would just unplug them anyway...

The matter in law is plain, are you sure?

 

 

[FluffyEyeball]

Yes, you're not allowed to film on private land without the permission of the owner.

[mrj2k8]

18 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

Yes, you're not allowed to film on private land without the permission of the owner.

OK will bet you my LL.B from Durham University you can.....

Edited 1 March, 2017 by mrj2k8

[FluffyEyeball]

Can you evidence that please? 

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

49 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Oh the irony don't use your foreign made dash cam to hold us to account  whilst we service your 20 / 30k  foreign car  (and I'll leave it at this) cough...

 

 

The comment I made had absolutely nothing to do with the origins of the equipments manufacture.

It was aimed at using outside equipment to film on private property.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

27 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

OK will bet you my LL.B from Durham University you can.....

http://www.photographersrights.org.uk/page6/page6.html

 

What about if I am on private property? 
You need permission to enter private property and the owner of the property can impose any conditions they wish on your entry. This could include a ban on photography or a fee for taking pictures.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

43 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 Pretty sure he actually meant foreign as in the cameras are foreign to that establishment . They have not come from and do not belong to that company or any related companies, it's owners or staff; and nor are they operating on behalf of that company or within the scope of it's policies. 

 

Regardless of your opinions on this matter the law is plain: The owner of that property can, at his or her will, allow or refuse the use of any recording equipment on or within it. Anyone who doesn't like this is welcome to find someone/somewhere else whom shares their opinion; and start a petition requesting the law be changed.

 

In any case, even if you were allowed to waltz into a garage workshop with your dash cam, is that really going to stop wrongdoing? Don't you think that most people who were to do malicious or neglegent things would just unplug them anyway...

This is the most level headed comment thus far. 

 

Sorry to any participants of this thread who don't agree with me but I respect your opinion and we all entitled to our own

[mrj2k8]

1 minute ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

The comment I made had absolutely nothing to do with the origins of the equipments manufacture.

It was aimed at using outside equipment to film on private property.

 

Sorry it doesn't read that way.

 

Do your T&C's forbid the filming on your premises?, otherwise its a request only and up to the owner if they grace you with their business, in either case i would contact Skoda UK as dealers dance to their tune.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mrj2k8]

6 minutes ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

http://www.photographersrights.org.uk/page6/page6.html

 

What about if I am on private property? 
You need permission to enter private property and the owner of the property can impose any conditions they wish on your entry. This could include a ban on photography or a fee for taking pictures.

OK James......Not sure if you are on a wind up here? 

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Bloody foreign cameras, coming over here with their superior technology, reliability, compact size and low costs!?!  

 

We turn them off before the vehicle enters the workshop, usually with prior permission.

 

when you phone skoda uk it's usually the Capita contact centre in Leeds who you talk to, we don't have to do what they ASK us. 

Edited 1 March, 2017 by James@RRGRochdale

[mrj2k8]

1 minute ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

 

 

We turn them them off before the vehicle enters the workshop, usually with prior permission.

 

 

 

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

4 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

OK James......Not sure if you are on a wind up here? 

 

It's the first of about 50 links that has the same info on, from various sources including the MET police. I didn't want to have to post them all. 

[mrj2k8]

2 minutes ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

 

It's the first of about 50 links that has the same info on, from various sources including the MET police. I didn't want to have to post them all. 

 

Ahh Google Solicitors, The Police are not the law though, be a good chap and get legal advice before you tamper with your customers equipment.

 

What next unplugging trackers?  

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

As the law is your specialist subject I would have thought you'd be the first to want to support your case with some evidence, instead we have your previous comments that are neither constructive and verging on insulting.

[FluffyEyeball]

23 minutes ago, mrj2k8 said:

 

Ahh Google Solicitors, The Police are not the law though, be a good chap and get legal advice before you tamper with your customers equipment.

 

What next unplugging trackers?  

 

Your manner is becoming increasingly patronising and antagonising, there's no need for it. 

 

Perhaps you could save the trouble of anyone seeking legal advice and, with your LLB, advise us all on the correct law(s) regarding the use of recording equipment on private property; and provide suitable evidence to match?

Edited 1 March, 2017 by FluffyEyeball

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

This info on direct.gov gives a very in depth insight to the uses of domestic cctv, how that would extend to a system fitted to a vehicle - I'm not 100% sure:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property

[Breezy_Pete]

8 minutes ago, FluffyEyeball said:

 

Your manner is becoming increasingly patronising and antagonising, there's no need for it. 

 

Perhaps you could save the trouble of anyone seeking legal advice and, with your LLB, advise us all on the correct law(s) regarding the use of recording equipment on private property; and provide suitable evidence to match?

+1

[spinifex]

2 hours ago, FluffyEyeball said:

Yes, you're not allowed to film on private land without the permission of the owner.

 

Presumably if the dashcam is INSIDE the vehicle, it's actually on YOUR property, so this argument is invalid.

If you were walking around their workshop with a handycam recording stuff, then fair enough they can ask you to stop recording.

But a camera MOUNTED inside your vehicle, which has NOTHING to do with the reason the car happens to be at the workshop, then they cannot stop you from recording.

The camera is on YOUR private property, and you can record whatever you damn-well please.

The best the workshop can do is throw a towel over the outside of the windscreen to cover the lens - but they can't do anything about the microphone (if fitted) as that would be inside the vehicle as well.

Removing the power to the camera, when it has nothing to do with a simple oil/filter change or wheel alignment, for example, is tantamount to damaging your property, as they have NO legal right nor reason to touch that cable/camera.

 

This is the same argument as saying "you cannot stand inside your house filming something going on outside your window"....

Edited 2 March, 2017 by spinifex

[FluffyEyeball]

The filming of outside things from inside your house is a difference topic and has different laws surrounding it depending on whats being filmed. If you were to deliberately and knowingly film people and/or their property in such a way you would be contravening their human right(s) to privacy. 

 

Yes the dash cam is in your vehicle, but by extension it is on somebody else's property and you have knowingly put it there; thus it amounts to the same thing. It becomes everything to do with it being at the workshop as soon as the owner knowingly chooses to leave it recording.

 

If you walked into my house with a camera attached within or on, for example, an item of clothing like a coat and then left the coat hung up with the camera recording the inside of my house even whilst you left the house, it would still be considered you filming my property and I can refuse to allow it.

 

I agree the workshop staff would probably find they couldn't defend any damage/adverse effects that happened to occur to the dash cam if it was incorrectly turned off by them; which is why in such a situation the owner should be contacted to either attend and switch it off, allow the staff to do it, or collect their car and go elsewhere.