Stop/Start System

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Expatman said:

I haver never thought about 'bright' brake lights dazzling me - do they really dazzle anyone?

Yup! Even more so if they are LED, which are now becoming the norm.

 

On a number of recent night journeys in stop/start traffic the vast  majority of drivers were sitting with their foot on the brake, which resulted in me experiencing a mild form of 'lens flare'. 

 

[kenfowler3966]

So the norm in this country is changing to catch up with other countries.

More automatics and the adoption of hill hold have made the use of the handbrake redundant in many cars. Indeed in many cars the handbrake is just a button now intended for the end of the journey when parking the car.

Sitting with my foot on the brake also means if I am hit from behind I have four wheels braked, including the more effective front ones, rather than limited power rear brakes only. Yes I suppose the impact could jerk my foot off the pedal, but equally it could apply more force and resistance. As the brakes take seconds to come off due to hill hold when active, even if my foot does come off in the impact the brakes will remain on long enough to do the job during the accident duration which is often just fractions of a second.

With a dsg with the engine running you have to have your foot on the brake to disengage the clutches. Handbrake on in drive and foot off the brake is just not good for the clutch, particulary dry ones. So would have to engage neutral at every stop which most auto drivers will not bother to do.

With stop start working if you engage the handbrake with engine stopped and lift your foot off the brake the engine restarts!

 

Can't say cars ahead of me are a problem to myself with brake lights on and stationary.

I do object to fog lights though.

[Wardy]

We may have to beg to differ on this one Ken - it's simply not a case of 'catching up with other countries'.

 

If you think your foot will remain on the brake during a potential collision when stopped, then by all means continue to do that.

 

 

[weasley]

My new Leon has a nifty feature - an auto-handbrake.  If you stop and keep the brake pedal down the engine shuts down, all very normal.  However a green 'P' light comes on in the instrument panel and I can then remove my foot from the brake and the engine won't start - it'll sit there, off, with the brakes applied until I touch the accelerator, at which point the engine fires up and we're off.  Overcomes the dazzle thing and keeps the brakes on to prevent rolling or shunting forwards.

[Ootohere]

?

Have you checked to see if your rear Brake Lights are on or off when stopped and 'Auto Hold' is functioning?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/432645-vw-group-vehicles-auto-hold-do-the-brake-lights-come-on 

Edited 22 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[logiclee]

5 hours ago, weasley said:

My new Leon has a nifty feature - an auto-handbrake.  If you stop and keep the brake pedal down the engine shuts down, all very normal.  However a green 'P' light comes on in the instrument panel and I can then remove my foot from the brake and the engine won't start - it'll sit there, off, with the brakes applied until I touch the accelerator, at which point the engine fires up and we're off.  Overcomes the dazzle thing and keeps the brakes on to prevent rolling or shunting forwards.

 

Auto Hold is only offered on vehicles with Electric Handbrake. 

 

Even though Auto Hold does not actually use the Electric Handbrake.

 

But should any safety issue occur or autohold exceeds the preset time limit the electric handbrake is applied.

 

Lee

[Wardy]

Think you might be getting Auto Hold and Hill Hold confused Lee.

 

Auto Hold function is an extension of the electronic parking brake.

Edited 22 May, 2017 by Wardy

[Ootohere]

Yet VW Official videos describe it as electric motors engage 'Auto Hold', and if you open the drivers door 'Auto' hold' disengages and the Electric Parking Brake functions.

 

In the VW Glossary it says, 'Auto Hold' holds the last brake pressure on all 4 wheels by use of the Hydraulic / ABS braking system, and if any rolling is monitored the system increases the braking.

Edited 22 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Wardy]

That's so the vehicle is fully secured, as a safety precaution. Given that you shouldn't want to drive off with the driver's door open...

[Ootohere]

Obviously.  It sets the Parking Brake, ' Auto hold' being a stationary brake with ignition on.

[Wardy]

But the point is they're associated systems. Both electronic handbrake and Auto Hold being controlled by the ABS/ESP module.

 

http://en.volkswagen.com/en/innovation-and-technology/technical-glossary/auto_hold_funktion.html

 

Neither of which the Yeti has, so the discussion has gone a little off topic 

[Ootohere]

Yes the Yeti was falling behind in the tech at a price point where people were expecting it for Global Sales hence the Koraq replacing it.

[muddyboots]

17 hours ago, Wardy said:

Think you might be getting Auto Hold and Hill Hold confused Lee.

 

Auto Hold function is an extension of the electronic parking brake.

Is that right ?

We've got Auto Hold on our new Superb, it just maintains hydraulic pressure when stationary and you take your foot off the brakes (keeps brake lights on). If you apply the electronic hand parking brake you can very clearly hear the motors actuating; but with auto hold, it just maintains the hydraulic pressure you applied with the pedal.

Essentially, it's hill hold but without needing to be on a hill....

[Wardy]

Both Auto Hold and the EPB work through the same system, the ABS/ESP module.

 

So I tend to think in terms of the EPB being a permanent application of Auto Hold, until you tell the vehicle otherwise  

 

The permanence being indicated by that actuation you mention, and can hear. So it's no longer maintaining it by hydraulic pressure.

[Guest FurryFriend]

Perhaps it's all getting TOO technical. 

 

Years ago circa 1973 I had Jaguar Mk2 and that had an anti-creep braking system. Don't ask me how it worked, because I don't know, but when you stopped in traffic, you just took your foot off the brake pedal, and the car stayed exactly where it was until you next touched the accelerator pedal. 

It never failed. 

 

Edited 23 May, 2017 by FurryFriend

[camelspyyder]

Stop-start on the Rapid can be switched off just by selecting "screen" on the climatronic.

 

Took me months to work that out (with some help on here) but since then I've used it and the mpg is about 6% up.

 

So in my case it saves ~£100 a year.

[Wardy]

42 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Stop-start on the Rapid can be switched off just by selecting "screen" on the climatronic.

 

Took me months to work that out (with some help on here) but since then I've used it and the mpg is about 6% up.

 

So in my case it saves ~£100 a year.

 

This discussion, in my view, is about how start/stop isn't programmed/configured correctly.

 

I'd like to use it, but to use it properly - i.e. it's still active when I shift from Drive into Neutral and apply the handbrake. Both being actions that the car has sensors to detect for.

 

During the discussion, we've then gone off into technologies that the Yeti doesn't have, that becomes possible with the MQB platform - chiefly EPB and Auto Hold.

[VAGCF]

On Friday, May 19, 2017 at 14:57, Expatman said:

Had my 1.2 Tsi SE-L DSG for 2 months and am not sure if I like the stop/start system. I find myself turning it off when I am in traffic as the continual stopping and starting hurts my engineering empathy. 

How do other drivers use the stop/start system - just let it get on with it or over ride and switch off? Does it really improve MPG in normal day-to-day driving?

Part of my starting procedure is turning it off!

[VAGCF]

On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 12:17, logiclee said:

 

You need to go to Park not Nuetral. The engine will stay off until you go back to D and release the brake.

Rather defeats the object of having an automatic to some extent though!

[logiclee]

Just now, VAGCF said:

Rather defeats the object of having an automatic to some extent though!

 

With the Yeti not having electric handbrake this is your only option if you want to take your foot off the brake and still have stop start engaged. 

 

To be honest BMW, Ford, VAG etc are all the same in this respect. There must be some requirement to have the vehicle in a mode it can't roll with the engine off.

 

I usually knock stop/start off, my commute is out of town traffic and the odd time stop start kicks in is usually frustrating. It doesn't make a noticable difference to economy for me and that's been true on every car I've had with it fitted. Makes a big difference to the EU tests though which is the real reason why it is fitted.

 

Lee

[VAGCF]

20 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

Yes the Yeti was falling behind in the tech at a price point where people were expecting it for Global Sales hence the Koraq replacing it.

I had two Passats with electronic parking brakes and an A6 with an electronic parking brake and hill hold. I was so glad to get back to the old tech. of the Yeti!

 

Not quite true as they did work well on the A6 which was an auto which those systems are more suited to and work better with than with a manual.

[Ootohere]

It took VW Group a good time to get it holistic with the 3 Musketeers.  Stop / Start, Auto Hold, Electric Parking Brake and then the other sidekick now redundant Hill Hold.

Yeti does fine, or has done, but then sitting with the foot on the Brake when not bothering to use a hand brake is just something plenty do regardless of what is in the UK Highway Code.

[logiclee]

19 minutes ago, VAGCF said:

I had two Passats with electronic parking brakes and an A6 with an electronic parking brake and hill hold. I was so glad to get back to the old tech. of the Yeti!

 

Not quite true as they did work well on the A6 which was an auto which those systems are more suited to and work better with than with a manual.

 

Auto Hold and DSG is the perfect combination.

[Guest FurryFriend]

I don't like the short interval it takes to start the car again. On a roundabout with fast moving traffic flow, it's the last thing I need. 

It's badly thought out, and just a gimmick as far as my wife and I are concerned. We turn it off 99% of the time. 

Edited 23 May, 2017 by FurryFriend

[logiclee]

1 minute ago, FurryFriend said:

I don't like the short interval it takes to start the car again. On a roundabout with fast moving traffic flow, it's the last thing I need. 

It's badly thought out, and just a gimmick as far as my wife and I are concerned. We turn it off 99% of the time. 

 

The current EU NEDC tests have the car sat at idle for quite a large proportion of test. So a car with stop/start will record reduced emissions and higher economy even though that is not repeatable on the road.

That's the real reason why it was developed and is fitted to most new cars.