Inside Canton Amplifier

[hitmn]

hi guys,
I managed to open my amp because I want to use other speakers.
So made some pictures. Please administrator take some of them and put it on the forum, because the link will be available 5-10 days. I see that I can upload 10mb max, pictures are 250 mb.

Thanks in advance ! Waiting for some commends

http://dox.bg/files/dw?a=2c7edc9788

you must check the box of Canton amp.rar and push "Изтегли избраните".
If you want to upload them on some other site, please just say.

[hitmn]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_718rQ9DMtScnR3cnZzR0pRQ0U

This is on Google drive. Can't disappear

I found one of the semiconductors.

On the board there are 7 chips.

3 of them are 75610DAA 96R506 - No info on the web. maybe this http://pdf1.alldatasheet.net/datasheet-pdf/view/543737/ETC2/TDA75610DLV.html. it says 4 x 45 W, but no more info ...

2 of them are TDF8599CTH/N1 - 

Type	Class D
Output Type	1-Channel (Mono) or 2-Channel (Stereo)
Max Output Power x Channels @ Load	300W x 1 @ 3 Ohm; 155W x 2 @ 6 Ohm
Voltage - Supply	8 V ~ 48 V
Features	Depop, Differential Inputs, I²C, Mute, Short-Circuit and Thermal Protection, Standby
Mounting Type	Surface Mount
Operating Temperature	-40°C ~ 85°C (TA)

 

or on the other site : 

http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/75017413.pdf


Can't read the other 2 chips.



 

 

Edited 23 May, 2017 by hitmn

[kogabe]

On 2017. 05. 23. at 09:49, hitmn said:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_718rQ9DMtScnR3cnZzR0pRQ0U

This is on Google drive. Can't disappear

I found one of the semiconductors.

On the board there are 7 chips.

3 of them are 75610DAA 96R506 - No info on the web. maybe this http://pdf1.alldatasheet.net/datasheet-pdf/view/543737/ETC2/TDA75610DLV.html. it says 4 x 45 W, but no more info ...

2 of them are TDF8599CTH/N1 - 

Type	Class D
Output Type	1-Channel (Mono) or 2-Channel (Stereo)
Max Output Power x Channels @ Load	300W x 1 @ 3 Ohm; 155W x 2 @ 6 Ohm
Voltage - Supply	8 V ~ 48 V
Features	Depop, Differential Inputs, I²C, Mute, Short-Circuit and Thermal Protection, Standby
Mounting Type	Surface Mount
Operating Temperature	-40°C ~ 85°C (TA)

 

or on the other site : 

http://www.nxp.com/documents/leaflet/75017413.pdf


Can't read the other 2 chips.



 

 

Hi hitmn,

 

thanks for this info.

Accoding to the TDF8599CTH/N1 description, it should support bridge mode, I think (300Wx1 @3Ohm)

I was wondering if you had a chance to try it?

 

Thanks!

kogabe 

 

[hitmn]

Please delete this comment

Edited 20 March, 2018 by hitmn

[hitmn]

1 hour ago, kogabe said:

Hi hitmn,

 

thanks for this info.

Accoding to the TDF8599CTH/N1 description, it should support bridge mode, I think (300Wx1 @3Ohm)

I was wondering if you had a chance to try it?

 

Thanks!

kogabe 

 

Hi,
I'm using 2 speakers, getting power from separate channels. already 10 months no problems.
My speakers are : http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w6-1139sif

Have a friend using 2 cone woofer : https://www.audison.eu/products/aps-10-d/

No problems at all.
Haven't tried bridge in prolonged use , but you can try it yourself. I have just tried if it will work, and it did. When I accidentally touch the wires the amp stopped. The amplifier has a built in protection. When activated, you must turn off car, and leave it until all the power are turned off by ECU. Then start again and will work.


Go ahead. It has all dummy protections, there is no way to burn it. 

[hitmn]

Now will try with new front speakers. 80W at 3 ohm. I'm sure it will work properly.
Other thing is that frequency below 70 Hz in front speakers are absolutely useful

Edited 20 March, 2018 by hitmn

[norsko]

Very interesting! I have read several places that the Canton amp dont support impedance below 8 ohm, but that is not correct?

It would be interesting to see which speaker is connected to which chip.

There are 11 channels in use: 4 x door woofer, 4 x door tweeter, 2 x subwoofer and one for center speaker.

Maybe the chips for center and woofer channels already are bridged? 

[kogabe]

1 hour ago, hitmn said:

Hi,
I'm using 2 speakers, getting power from separate channels. already 10 months no problems.
My speakers are : http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w6-1139sif

Have a friend using 2 cone woofer : https://www.audison.eu/products/aps-10-d/

No problems at all.
Haven't tried bridge in prolonged use , but you can try it yourself. I have just tried if it will work, and it did. When I accidentally touch the wires the amp stopped. The amplifier has a built in protection. When activated, you must turn off car, and leave it until all the power are turned off by ECU. Then start again and will work.


Go ahead. It has all dummy protections, there is no way to burn it. 

 

Thanks for the confirmation!

What I was curious about, whether it allows bridged connection or not at all. It's good news, that it does!  

I can't wait to try it when the new car arrives from the factory 

[kogabe]

18 minutes ago, norsko said:

Very interesting! I have read several places that the Canton amp dont support impedance below 8 ohm, but that is not correct?

It would be interesting to see which speaker is connected to which chip.

There are 11 channels in use: 4 x door woofer, 4 x door tweeter, 2 x subwoofer and one for center speaker.

Maybe the chips for center and woofer channels already are bridged? 

 

It's only my guess, but I think that the chip above is the only one powerful enough to drive the subs.

(good question is, why they have 2 of it..)

If the factory subwoofers are 8 ohm, then they are simply driven in: "155W x 2 @ 6 Ohm" mode in my opinion.

So using a regular 4-ohm sub should not be a problem for the amp in bridged mode: "300W x 1 @ 3 Ohm"

 

 

[hitmn]

On 20/03/2018 at 16:46, norsko said:

Very interesting! I have read several places that the Canton amp dont support impedance below 8 ohm, but that is not correct?

It would be interesting to see which speaker is connected to which chip.

There are 11 channels in use: 4 x door woofer, 4 x door tweeter, 2 x subwoofer and one for center speaker.

Maybe the chips for center and woofer channels already are bridged? 

Dont think so. Please do wload the photos from drive and see it. There are 2 chips separated from the others with different power

[Gti Jazz Blue]

On 20/03/2018 at 13:10, hitmn said:

Have a friend using 2 cone woofer : https://www.audison.eu/products/aps-10-d/

No problems at all.
 

It would be interesting to find out how he has it wired - is he using it in 4 + 4 configuration - so a 4 Ohm load across each sub output?

[hitmn]

20 hours ago, Gti Jazz Blue said:

It would be interesting to find out how he has it wired - is he using it in 4 + 4 configuration - so a 4 Ohm load across each sub output?

Yes.

[norsko]

21 hours ago, hitmn said:

Dont think so. Please do wload the photos from drive and see it. There are 2 chips separated from the others with different power

Yes, I believe that is the sub channels.

There are total of 7 chips, all of them 2 channel amps I presume, but there is 11 speakers.

I think the two biggest amps are bridged for the sub, the subwoofer has two voice coils.

One of the smaller amps are bridged for the centerchannel in dashboard, this speaker has only one voice coil but plays a mix of both left and right channel

Then there are active crossovers and an amp-channel for each of the tweeters and woofers in doors.

That is the only way I can see 7 stereo chip amps become 11 channels?

[gxgro]

Hello, i also opened up my canton mib1 and found 4 chips:

 

Two TDF8599CTH: 2x100w @8ohm, 1x200w @4ohm

Two TDF8541CTH: 4x45w @2ohm, 4x25w @4ohm

 

I traced the speakers on the pcb and i found:

 

One 8599 drives the subwoofer 2x100w @8ohm

One 8599 drives the front woofers 2x100w @8ohm

One 8541 drives the rear woofers and the center 2x45 @2ohm, 1x25 @4ohm (one channel is either disabled or not connected , didn't test)

One 8541 drives all tweeters 4x25 @4ohm

 

Interesting is that 8541 can drive at the same time both 2ohm and 4ohm loads and ...

Quote

"At the end of the start-up diagnostics cycle, not only the load condition is known (shorted load, normal load or open load), but also if a separate amplifier is connected or if the outputs are shorted to battery or ground. If a separate amplifier (booster) is detected, the amplifier can start-up in line driver mode (low gain setting)."

 

 

[Macie]

Hi,

I bridged two outside wires (+ and -) and connected to a one coil 4 Ohm 275 W RMS speaker. It sounds OK. The bass is louder and deeper.

Although today I received an e-mail answer from canton.de that it is not possible to bridge the subwoofer channels in the aplifier.

 

So far so good (after one day listening).

 

From the other hand the speaker is a bit too big comparing to power it is receiving from the amplifier. Better solution would be to install about 200w 4 Ohm speaker.

 

best regards.

Maciej

[gxgro]

The amp si already bridged. The only way to get 200@4ohm is to paralell it but this means some intervention on the pcb.

@Macie go and change polarity at the subwoofer pins and be amazed..

[Macie]

I have changed polarity at the subwoofer pins and I am amazed. Thank you. The bass is quicker and stronger now.

[hirez]

I found this:

https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/sta516b.pdf

 

I don't have a Canton system, but this has similar configuration for the guys with the ST 7561 IC

Edited 24 April, 2020 by hirez

[Macie]

So the best solution for me was to add another amplifier for my 275W 4Ohm 12 inch subwoofer.  I took High Input signal for the amp from original grey wires . Skoda puts 2 pairs of wires for the amp: white pair and grey pair. White wires conduct 24V and grey wires 4V, so the grey can be taken as a high input signal to another amp. Both pairs work with mentioned voltage with original subwoofer - proper resistance must be present, as it was mentioned earlier. So I ended up with two subwoofers and now the sound is good enough.

 

[gxgro]

@Marcie do you have the MIB1 or MIB2 and how did you measured the voltage? My MIB1 has up to 14 volt AC on each set of wires (technically correct because of the dual vc sub that needs the equal voltage) and the amp does throw an DTC but the channels are not shutting down if no load is present. The best alternative for adding an amp si to "steal" the low signal from between the DSP and the amp chip, it's easy traceable on the board.

[Macie]

Yes, I have MIB1. I did not measure AC but DC Thanks for correction. DC were 24 and 4. My mistake.

In my case high signal is acceptable by the amp.  I simply stole the signal from one set of wires.

The orginal sub is covered by the added one.

Best regards.

Maciej

[hitmn]

So after a lot of experiments ... this week I will put another pair of front speakers, that I'm sure would be best choice for this amp There are 28W/8 ohm Rated/ 56W Peak, and will not get any clipping ( I hope ). If all ok will put them in rear too ... Will use original housing for speakers, removing old cones ...

http://www.tb-speaker.com/products/w5-704d
Still using old subwoofers 2x50W/4ohm Rated/100W peak and no problem at all.

[gxgro]

SInce april i run without any problems the following setup.

 

Trunk: Subwoofer JBL Club 1024 250W/4Ohm with the custom Basser box and JBL Club 5501 Amp pushing the sub at around 275W because of the sealed enclosure. I had to use a high-low input level converter because using the high level input present on the amp would throw him in protect mode... don't know why. (input voltage < 12v)

Front: I replaced them with the Hertz Cento C165 woofers because the spider on the left one broke and .. prrr prr prr. Although the nominal impedance is only 3.1 ohms, i didn't have any problems of overheating or shutting down or any thing.

[VenomVrs]

Old topic but im planning to upgrade the sub and the box. So after all the testing you guys have made, how can i wire new sub to the Canton amp? Can i bridge a single coil 4ohm sub? 

[gxgro]

You cannot bridge the amp because is already bridged but on my mib1 i ran without problems a 4 ohm sub. Just select a pair of wires to connect the sub, isolate the other and, the MOST IMPORTANT thing, switch polarity of the selected pair of wires to shift the bass to front seats.