Major fire in London Tower Block

[Adam_]

Just now, CWARD said:

 

He hasn't done much in the Labour controlled councils of Newham and Camden where they have done the same type of modernisation work to tower blocks. Is it different rules for these areas? Does the same apply special rules apply to Leeds too?

Councils are funded by the government the government is conservative. 

I don't see your point?

 

[CWARD]

9 minutes ago, Adam_ said:

Lol the residents of the flats don't stand outside all day looking up at the building. No they don't want to live there but they have no option. 

 

The residents deserve proper houses to live in and believing otherwise is stupid.

 

Map of Kensington. Please say where these individual homes would be built. It's not like London isn't overcrowded as it is.

Edited 16 June, 2017 by CWARD

[Adam_]

1 minute ago, CWARD said:

 

Map of Kensington. Please say where these individual homes would be built. It's not like London sin't overcrowded as it is.

There are over 1500 privately owned unoccupied properties in the area.

 

Local people can't afford to buy them because the wealth gap is so massive.

 

Wake up. It's time for change.

[CWARD]

7 minutes ago, Adam_ said:

There are over 1500 privately owned unoccupied properties in the area.

 

Local people can't afford to buy them because the wealth gap is so massive.

 

Wake up. It's time for change.

 

Lots of homeless too. How many have you taken in Halifax? or do you just talk about social injustice on the internet without practising it.

Edited 16 June, 2017 by CWARD

[Adam_]

4 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

Lots of homeless too. How many have you taken in Halifax? or do you just talk about social injustice on the internet without practising it.

How many what have we taken? Migrants? Refugees? Homeless? 

 

This problem is as relevant here in Halifax as anywhere else. 

 

I'm not sure if you know the west Yorkshire area and how diverse it is. 

 

It's not all flat caps and whippets ya know.

 

Halifax also voted labour because we want to see change.

Edited 16 June, 2017 by Adam_

[Auric Goldfinger]

1 minute ago, Adam_ said:

 

It's not all flat caps and whippets ya know.

 

 

..........................theres the occasional Ferret

[CWARD]

Adam, I live less than 10 miles away from you. After my brother was homeless I have done a lot of work for them through St Georges Crypt in Leeds. I know the area and the homeless situation, now how about you answer the question?

Edited 16 June, 2017 by CWARD

[Adam_]

How many homeless have we taken?

I don't know.

How many homeless has this government created?

 

Have you seen a rise or fall?

 

Personally when r lasses brother was made homeless. We took him in until he was in a better position. 

 

 

 

Edited 16 June, 2017 by Adam_

[CWARD]

I was asking about you not the government. 

 

The number of homeless increases at this time of the year. Year on year it's declining slightly in Leeds but the number of polish men within that number increased more than any others.

 

The biggest increase in the UK was in 2008/9 after the financial crash. In Leeds the Labour council tried to say that only 6 people were sleeping rough at the time, a laughable figure if the reality wasn't that so many times more were sleeping rough but that politics for you.

 

Edited 16 June, 2017 by CWARD

[Adam_]

4 minutes ago, CWARD said:

I was asking about you not the government. 

 

The number of homeless increases at this time of the year. Year on year it's declining slightly in Leeds but the number of polish men within that number increased more than any others.

 

Go on then tell me.

How many have you taken?

 

 

[CWARD]

We had taken in two in previous years but it was counter productive, the first one we helped we are still in touch with and she is doing very well now. Now through friends and contacts we have managed to help many more. At St Georges Crypt I have not only raised a far bit of money to help but also volunteer as a "Befriender" which is not only being someone for people to talk to but I also accompany people when going for PIP interviews, completing forms, applying for jobs and mentoring. I did try to help at a cookhouse but my services were less than appreciated.

Through SSAFA I'm a regional representative doing pretty much the same as I do with St Georges Crypt but for ex Forces and their families.  

[Adam_]

Surely then you must see the need for more housing?

And if we're going to build houses they need to be future proof and council owned. 

[CWARD]

1 hour ago, Adam_ said:

 

Surely then you must see the need for more housing?

And if we're going to build houses they need to be future proof and council owned.

 

 

I do the see the need for more housing and social responsibility too.

 

I'm third generation born into council housing. My grand parents were the first people to live in their new built prefab house in Morley. The council would come round once a month and inspect the properties to ensure they were being looked after properly by the tenants, if their garden wasn't tidy they'd get a warning and it would have to be corrected by the next visit otherwise they would violate their tenancy agreement and would be evicted. Such was the size of the waiting lists they would ensure the property was looked after and they were proud to have a council house.

My parents continued to live in various council house but people no longer looked after them and within less than two decades you would see house trashed by the tenants for the council to have fix again. The previous tenants had kept the house in good order as they new the were lucky to have a council house as opposed to a private landlord.

When my parents split we continued to live in council houses. The house my dad moved into was on a road that was being refurbished. They fitted a new kitchen, then they came to fit double glazing but because the window sill was below the level of the sink they ripped out the new kitchen on the window wall. Rather than reinstall the kitchen they fitted a new kitchen. Less than a month after this was done they had to remove the kitchen again to repair the floor as the majority of the builds had faults with the joists that were supposed to have been fixed years before the modernisation. Yet again another new kitchen was installed. In just over a year three new kitchens in the majority of houses on that road, the neighbours were joking with each other other over what colour they would have next month. All this incompetence and waste that the tax payer was paying for that could have been used for new houses.

On the flip side of this you have tenants in council houses who have more than enough income to go to private landlord or buy their own home so depriving a family that actually need a council home. Others are living in three bedrooms homes despite being only couple or even single. I don't agree with the bedroom tax but at the same time it's a waste of housing stock too so measure do need to be in place that are social-able acceptable.

Saying build a load of new homes in Kensington isn't the answer either as it would lead to more abuse with people wanting to be in that area so joining the waiting list. Others would profit from it and illegally sublet, which is still a big problem in London, whilst they lived in a cheaper area. A very complicated problem that requires tight control over the housing stock and their tenants.

 

 

[Aspman]

Can't underestimate the political fallout from this.

 

For whatever reason...Corbyn has played this perfectly and TM has played it perfectly wrong.

 

If there was a general election tomorrow labour would probably get in with a majority.

 

The fall out from this will grumble on for years. But they'll probably issue new fire safety rules and do not much else.

If the gov does insist on installation of sprinklers it will provide no money to do it and then complain when the councils cut services to pay for it.

That's the way for central government right now.

[skomaz]

18 hours ago, Lee01 said:

Heard reports today that two options of cladding were proposed. Both met fire regs but one outperformed the other.

No prizes for guessing which was used so I'll tell you; the cheaper one.

 

This tragedy could have been lessened had corners not been cut to save a few bob.

 

 

The cheaper one may well have been used - but probably because the specification for the refurb and cladding (presumably prepared by the local authority / housing association concerned) didn't request the one with the higher fire rating.

 

If the higher fire rating was wanted it should have been specified as a requirement.

 

With hindsight those that wrote the spec will no doubt now be blaming the standards or A N Other and will be saying they really wanted the higher spec but didn't get it...

[Adam_]

I'm stepping away from this thread for a day or so.

Some off the stories from victims and witnesses are harrowing. Can you imagine having to make a choice of throwing your child out of a window or risking the flames!

 

[CWARD]

5 minutes ago, Adam_ said:

I'm stepping away from this thread for a day or so.

Some off the stories from victims and witnesses are harrowing. Can you imagine having to make a choice of throwing your child out of a window or risking the flames!

 

 

It's been the same with the firefighters having to pick who they would rescue knowing they might not get to get another. Truly horrific for all involved and hopefully steps to be taken to ensure that it's never repeated. Unfortunately the method of insulation and fixing seems to have been used all over the country in both social and private high rise buildings. I fear this could be the next asbestos scandal.

[Ootohere]

?

Has a number been given officially for how many survivors there are from Grenfell Tower?

ie those that were in the building and then got out.

 

I hear it said on the news channels 'the hundreds of survivors', but not how many.

[Aspman]

9 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

?

Has a number been given officially for how many survivors there are from Grenfell Tower?

ie those that were in the building and then got out.

 

I hear it said on the news channels 'the hundreds of survivors', but not how many.

 

I heard the approximate total was about 800 for the whole building. And I'm sure I've heard tale of ~600 in emergency shelters. But no one will even really know exactly how many people were in the building when it went up.

 

One story was claiming 23 people on the roof.

 

But yes lots of horrific stories.

 

One of the MPs is shouting about corporate manslaughter. That'll only apply if the firm fitted below standard materials or fitted them incorrectly. It doesn't matter if the materials were flammable/toxic as long as they met the standards then the company will not be culpable.

 

Those who approved or refused to amend the standards.... again probably not criminal but morally....?

 

Thing is this is just one very clear example of this sort of thing. Happens all the time in H&S, food hygiene, medicine, hospital treatment etc etc.

[Ootohere]

I know no one knows the number in the block when the fire started, just surprised no figure is given for how many have registered as having escaped.

We know how many were in hospital and still are in hospital.

[@Lee]

1 hour ago, Awayoffski said:

?

Has a number been given officially for how many survivors there are from Grenfell Tower?

ie those that were in the building and then got out.

 

I hear it said on the news channels 'the hundreds of survivors', but not how many.

Official death toll today at 30 but, unconfirmed reports that it's more like 150+ and the Govt. have slapped a D notice on the MSM so that the true figure is drip fed.

As I said, 'unconfirmed' but I wouldn't put anything past them right now.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSMA-Notice

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/grenfell-tower-london-fire-victims-lily-allen-newsnight-jon-snow-channel-4-news-a7792846.html

 

[Ootohere]

Yes those numbers are released to the media.

 

Was just wondering as i watch the rally outside the council offices how many that survived need rehousing and also tenants that were not in the block but no longer have homes need somewhere to live.

All survivors may not be residents from Grenfell Tower obviously.

 

UK Government very very disorganised it seems from bringing in those that deal with Civil Emergencies, no idea how they would deal with even bigger areas if such incidents happened.

[usedabused]

The death toll will be hundreds three of the flats were sqauts so could of been dozens in them.

 

The brutal fact is we will never know because the heat and length of time it burned there ashes wil be washed /blown away................

[@Lee]

£2/SqM. TWO ****ING POUNDS!

Quote

Material used in the cladding that covered the Grenfell Tower was the cheaper, more flammable version of the two available options, an investigation of the supply chain has confirmed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/manufacturer-of-cladding-on-grenfell-tower-identified-as-omnis-exteriors?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

Also, someone suggested it was 'cheap Chinese cladding' Not true.

Quote

Omnis Exteriors describes itself as a “leading UK manufacturer and supplier of exterior building products and systems”.

 

 

[@Lee]

I wouldn't be surprised if things get ugly later on.

Quote

Hundreds chanting 'justice' burst into the council building with a series of demands

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-residents-kensington-town-hall-fire-demand-answers-protest-council-chelsea-borough-a7793906.html

 

May did a bunk

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/theresa-may-grenfell-tower-fire-protests-church-coward-chants-pm-surrounded-latest-news-a7794106.html