VRS Clutch/Flywheel Options??

[ConorVRS]

Hi, had my car remapped a couple of days back, my vrs has just clocked 99k miles and during the mapping session my car's clutch would slip trying to hold the torque gained from the map, in the end the fuelling and other values had to be backed off slightly to limit the torque so the clutch wouldn't slip as badly - it still does it if I try to boost from <2k RPM's in 4th/5th/6th 

I'm currently looking for some options for clutch/flywheel combinations - not too bothered on the price but I am looking at going 1756 in the near future so must be able to cope with the torque levels that will produce 

I'd like to hear any experiences people have of clutch/flywheel combinations or recommendations can be either single or dual mass, not too bothered about that either. 

 

Cheers

[huwvrs79]

hia I had same problem, had my vrs remapped to 170/300 and in 5th and 6th would slip , its on full boost at just over 2k, ive put in a sach flywheel and clutch its done 500miles since clutch and seems ok, very light clutch pedal too

[duck]

Fist you need to make a decision - dual mass of single mass flywheel.

 

As for the clutch I would recommend a Sachs SRE, organic clutch plate should be enough for your specification and will give a good normal feeling clutch (slightly heavier pedal feel), I have the darkside SMF and Sachs SRE clutch kit with organic plate, darkside kit is approx £200 less than the similar Sachs SMF and SRE clutch kit.

 

Don't forget if you go SMF they are noisy and make the car sound like a bag of nails on idle.

[ConorVRS]

Hi both, cheers for the replies 

I'm not too bothered about single or dual mass, the noise wouldn't bother me too much, I was just more concerned that I'd buy a clutch/flywheel and then want to go for a 1756 turbo running more torque and have to buy another clutch because the one I buy now might not handle it - I'd rather just spend a little more now and know that the kit could take it - basically looking for the most cost effective kit for holding big (ish) power

[octyal]

If going for big power, then better off with a single mass conversion from Sachs (think darkside do them) rather than a DMF - the extra torque will overload the arc springs

[ConorVRS]

I think the most I've seen a 1756 make is between 230-240bhp and around 360/370 lb ft? Is that big enough power to warrant a SMF? 

I see there's a Sachs SRE DMF clutch that should hold 360 lb ft with an organic disc or 400 lb ft with a sintered paddle? 

[stevobeavo]

I have the Sachs paddle clutch and dmf. More than capable. Heavy pedal and is very bitey (that a word) until it beds in a bite. 

[Graffiti]

1 hour ago, stevobeavo said:

I have the Sachs paddle clutch and dmf. More than capable. Heavy pedal and is very bitey (that a word) until it beds in a bite. 

 

Thats the Dmf im after next but its about £800 isnt it? 

Stevo, you had your morning coffee yet? Made me smile 

[ConorVRS]

3 hours ago, stevobeavo said:

I have the Sachs paddle clutch and dmf. More than capable. Heavy pedal and is very bitey (that a word) until it beds in a bite. 

Where's the best place to source one of those kits? And roughly how many miles have you had the dmf on for? As I don't wanna be replacing it every 20k haha 

[duck]

Pays your money and takes your choice - SMF should be bullet proof but noisy, Darkside say the SRE sintered paddle clutch has a life expectancy of 20-30k miles and DMF's don't survive very well when abused either.

 

I've had the following:

 

Sachs SRE (organic disc) and Sachs DMF - DMF was shot by 40k miles and rattling like a good'un, clutch was still ok.

 

Xman uprated DMF and transporter clutch - DMF falling apart after 7k miles, clutch was ok.

 

Max Torque SMF and 6 paddle clutch - slipping after 6k miles and the judder from the paddle clutch was horrible especially when reversing.

 

Darkside SMF and Sachs SRE (organic disc) - working fine, best so far, no judder and no slipping.

 

Cheapest place I have seen for the standard Sachs DMF and Sachs SRE clutch is CarParts4Less, they are sold individually but combined with one of the weekend discount codes (between 10-15%) you can get the whole lot for around £700

Edited 14 July, 2017 by duck
typo

[stevobeavo]

Think the clutch has done about 30k+ miles. When the gearbox was rebuilt last year, unit 18 said the dmf was still tight as a nun, and the paddle clutch showed no real signs of wear. 

 

I've done 4 track days on it and I do like to give it some Welly. However I know not to be in 6th at 40mph and bury the throttle. That's what kills them. Revs about 2200rpm is full throttle time for me. Which is fine as there's little power below that anyway.

[Tuftythesquirrel]

What's the noise like wth the Darkside SMF? I thought it was around 10kg, so possibly quieter than a lightweight one?

[duck]

Yes the darkside smf is 10kg, unfortunately it's still very noisy and makes the car sound like it's broken. 

 

That's the sacrifice if you want a tough clutch setup! 

Edited 1 October, 2017 by duck

[sepulchrave]

DMF's are fine, they just don't last forever, remember a BMW 335D has a DMF as well and about twice the torque of a tuned VRS. DMF's have a bad name because most everyone changes their clutch when it's already at ~100k, usually because the turbos blown and they've fitted a bigger one.

If you fit the upgraded DMF then it'll probably last the rest of the cars life even with the big turbo.

 

TLDR; you don't have to use an SMF just because you're fitting a bigger turbo.

[duck]

Info on the uprated DMF please Sepulchrave

 

Not calling anyone a liar but I don't believe there is such a thing for the VW 1.9tdi, I contacted Sachs via email and also telephoned the technical section who had never heard of an uprated DMF, they passed me to the motorsport technical section and they also had no knowledge of an uprated DMF for the vw 1.9tdi, I have searched the internet and VW/diesel forums on many occasions and have never found any info on an uprated DMF, I think it may just be a myth with no substance propagated on this forum. 

 

The BMW 335D DMF is designed to handle the torque its engine produces, the same as the DMF on the vw 1.9tdi i.e around 220lbs, when you tune the engine can you expect the DMF to last if its coping with 350-400lbs torque and being driven hard?

 

My experiences of DMF and SMF are in the posts above, the Darkside SMF and Sachs SRE are still working fine for me, noisy but reliable, I switched to the SMF as I don't want to be changing the DMF every two or three years.

 

 

[sepulchrave]

Fair enough, I may well be mistaken about the DMF, but clutch slip is caused by weak diaphragm springs or a glazed/worn friction plate, never by the DMF itself.

So a new DMF will not fail simply because the engine has more torque, it will fail due to fatigue over time.

So my point remains the same, if you fit an uprated clutch kit to a new DMF it should last just fine.