rs Uses alot of oil - TFSI 2.0 - 2006

[Volfi]

Hi!

So. Lets start from the begining.

 

I purchased a Skoda Octavia RS ( TFSI 2.0 ), year model 2006.

Owned it for about 2-3 months and now a big issue has appeared. In the start I had Low Oil pressure warning. Soo.. I did an oil change since the workshop said that it could be bad oil and alot of dirt.

Soo.. Time passes and and after around 2000 km - The oil is empty. The warning "Low Oil Pressure" came again. Soo Naturally i did oil level test.. And literally, it was dry.

Is it possible for the car to  drink so much oil?

 

The probable cause I have gotten is bad piston rings. So im reaching out on the forum if anyone have had any issue as the same or could help me troubleshoot what makes it drink so much oil.

Currently i have filled with once again and is measuring and doing regular checks on the oil level to see if it goes down,  Now im 100km in and its still full.

 

Thanks in advanced

(And sorry for bad spelling / grammar - Swede here! )

 

Edit: The car is at 184184 km.

Edited 20 July, 2017 by Volfi

[KenONeill]

@Volfi You say "literally it was dry". Do you mean there was no oil in the sump, or just that there was none on the dip stick? Those are 2 very different things, and indicate very different levels of oil consumption.

 

Anyway, if you have a suspicion of worn bores (or broken or seized piston rings) you should get a garage to do a "dry and wet" compression test. This is where they measure the compression of the engine, then put a spoonful of oil down each bore and remeasure. If the compression comes up noticeably (more than 10%) on the second test, then you have a problem.

[Volfi]

21 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@Volfi You say "literally it was dry". Do you mean there was no oil in the sump, or just that there was none on the dip stick? Those are 2 very different things, and indicate very different levels of oil consumption.

 

Anyway, if you have a suspicion of worn bores (or broken or seized piston rings) you should get a garage to do a "dry and wet" compression test. This is where they measure the compression of the engine, then put a spoonful of oil down each bore and remeasure. If the compression comes up noticeably (more than 10%) on the second test, then you have a problem.

 

Hi! Thanks for reply.

What was dry was the dipstick. And yes. Will try to get in contact with a workshop to do a compression test. The first service i called said the test would not show if it's the pistons rings. But I guess il call another one.

 

Thanks once again.

 

 

[KenONeill]

@Volfi Well, a dry dipstick in 2_000 km is heavy consumption, but not likely to cause engine damage as long as you refill when the "low oil" warning goes off, or check every week or 1_000 km and top up as required.

 

Also I wouldn't bother calling the folk who said "the test would not show if it's the piston rings" again, ever. I mean I'm just "some guy on the internet" and I know how to test whether low compression is valves or bores/rings.

[TheClient]

EA113 was known to use a fair bit of oil. If it is extreme it will kill the engine. In the later EA888 in the mk2 FL RS, there is a known problem with piston and scraper ring design.

 

It catches a lot of the 1.8TSI and 2.0 RS TSI Octavia purchasers out that join this forum wondering what can be going on.  Often there is no excessive smoke at idle or even under acceleration.  In the early stages of excessive use, it can be that it is hard to spot with compression tests as the oil enhances the compression rings and compression is ok but eventually the carbon burning and oil foul up the chamber and rings and bore wear and then ultimately engine failure.  That is the EA888 story anyway.

 

For starter, I'd still say a compression test wet and dry is still worthwhile to see if it indicates a problem. It also allows you to view the plugs which if it is a heavy user will be quite visible..

 

Is the oil light you've been getting "low oil level" or "low oil pressure"? You don't really want to be running an engine so low on oil that pressure becomes unstable.  You need to check more often.

 

Clogged oil pick ups are also not uncommon but won't be causing the oil consumption.

 

In rough terms you could be talking about a bit more than 1litre, say 1.3 litre (to be off dip stick) in 2000km, so maybe 0,7L per 1000km.  That is getting up there. A more accurate consumption test would be useful too.

Edited 20 July, 2017 by TheClient

[jong123]

For what it's worth my wife owned a 1990 MK1 2 Liter Octavia estate that used 1 liter per 1000 miles, the hand book stated that 1 liter per 600 miles was acceptable, no problems other than checking the oil level for 5 years, before trading it in having achieved over 100000 miles.

[Ootohere]

?

Did the owners manual not say.,

'may use 0.5 litres 1000 km'

 

 so 1/2 litre in 621 miles which is 1 litre in 1,242 miles.   & that is for all engines 44kw up and any of them 3,4,5,6,8,12 cylinder petrol or diesel, 

so just nonsense that VW group thinks that gets them off the hook with high oil consumption, and actually does nothing of the kind.

A badly built engine is just that,.

Edited 20 July, 2017 by Awayoffski

[Volfi]

Thanks for reply, I have found a new engine and im thinking of purchasing that instead of repairing my current. Or what do you guys think would be the best solution?

 

14 hours ago, TheClient said:

 

Is the oil light you've been getting "low oil level" or "low oil pressure"? You don't really want to be running an engine so low on oil that pressure becomes unstable.  You need to check more often.

 

 

 

It's "LOW OIL PRESSURE". I did not know after latest oil change that it drank it. So now im checking the oil every time i need to fuel up.

Though interesting error I got yesterday was I did get the "LOW OIL PRESSURE" warning. But, my oil is still full!

 

This was in a steep-hill up with a total of 5 people in the car. The error has not shown itself anymore.

 

 

18 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@Volfi Well, a dry dipstick in 2_000 km is heavy consumption, but not likely to cause engine damage as long as you refill when the "low oil" warning goes off, or check every week or 1_000 km and top up as required.

 

Also I wouldn't bother calling the folk who said "the test would not show if it's the piston rings" again, ever. I mean I'm just "some guy on the internet" and I know how to test whether low compression is valves or bores/rings.

 

will not call them again. Currently im looking for a workshop that actually wants to help me. Most of them tells me to "New engine is cheapest solution".

 

Thank again, lovely forum and community. I don't want to lose my skoda.

 

 

A good thing that happened was the previous owner did not know about the issue. But is willing to split the bill for the needed repair. Cred for previous owner.

(Backstory is that he around 9 months ago got new job and the car since that has just been parked, but still regally checked.

[KenONeill]

@Volfi - "Low pressure" warning may not even be low pressure. I had one car where that started happening after an oil change, and the resolution was simply to buy and fit a new oil pressure sensor.

 

Other possible (and well documented) causes of low oil pressure on VAG engines are a blocked pickup/strainer, or a faulty oil pump. None of these have necessarily caused terminal engine damage (yet), and determining what sort of damage has occurred isn't that expensive given an honest garage that understands and will do stuff like dry and wet compression tests.

 

At the one end, we could be looking at a sensor and about 15 minutes work, changing the pickup and oil pump would be about £300 UK including labour and taxes, but in the worst case yes it's a new engine.

[TheClient]

You could do some fault finding to try and pin point the low oil pressure problem. I.e. run a gauge and check oil pressure at idle, fast rpm, hot / cold. Maybe a faulty sensor or oil pump or blocked pickups, as mentioned before.

 

I, personally, would be a bit worried about throwing too much money at an engine with that oil usage until you know the cause. A partial rebuild may be an option once some fault finding seems to support it but often it is cheaper buying a donor engine or even and exchange reconditioned item (usually the latter will have a warranty).  The amount of oil usage you are seeing seems likely to be pistons / rings or a turbo problem.  

 

If it is a second hand motor you can buy and no guarantees, that doesn't give you much re-assurance that it doesn't have the same or other faults after spending time and money on installing it.  It is a dilemma facing everyone looking for an economical motor swap.

[Volfi]

So.. As it looks like now iam waiting for a price for for either a repair of current engine (Fixing the piston rings), as many have said and my googling and researching that's the probable cause to the big oil consumption.

Also a price for changing engine (With new/used engine in the price), if I don't choose to repair my current engine.

But still here in Sweden a lot of repair shops still have closed during summer.. So next week I hopefully will get some answers.

 

So.. What do you guys think is best solution? Fix the Piston rings or change the engine?

My thoughts is, If I do change to new engine with less KM on it, the same issue could appear later on again.. But for now, thanks for replys and help!

[Volfi]

A good workshop has replyed to me and given me a price. For about 25 000 SEK (2 600 Euro). Il get an new engine and the change. IMO this is pretty good price. Im awaiting the call to see how far the new engine has been used.

Edited 25 July, 2017 by Volfi

[rayx]

Hope this might help you to make correct decision

Technical product information 2018012_1.pdf

[TheClient]

So,  IF I am interpreting correctly:

 

There was a production process problem and ideally you need to find an engine after the imbalance sensors were used in production?

 

Or recondition the engine with new production pistons and rings.

 

Have I got that right @rayx ?

 

Why does the tolerance issue on the piston rings cause the oil pressure issue? Just from usage and resulting low oil level in sump pan?

 

 

Edited 26 July, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

Well, according that TPI I guess VAG had issue with high oil usage because of bad piston rings, which were manufactured out of tolerance. Yes, you got it right, not sure if any newer TPI exists for BWA. Of course when no or not much oil is in sump, pump can´t produce enough pressure, oil deteorate because of bad cooling etc. It is important to check oil level with dip stick periodicaly, especially when possible oil consumption issue exists.

 

So what I wanted to say was look for new engine with Nr. after 219 337 or let fix your current one with proper rings, either from VAG or KolbenSchmidt etc.

https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/

Product group ring set 80 01115 1 0 000

https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showRSDetail&ksnr=800111510000&stacklevel=2&hisdir=fwd

[Volfi]

20 hours ago, rayx said:

Well, according that TPI I guess VAG had issue with high oil usage because of bad piston rings, which were manufactured out of tolerance. Yes, you got it right, not sure if any newer TPI exists for BWA. Of course when no or not much oil is in sump, pump can´t produce enough pressure, oil deteorate because of bad cooling etc. It is important to check oil level with dip stick periodicaly, especially when possible oil consumption issue exists.

 

So what I wanted to say was look for new engine with Nr. after 219 337 or let fix your current one with proper rings, either from VAG or KolbenSchmidt etc.

https://www.ms-motorservice.com/en/

Product group ring set 80 01115 1 0 000

https://onlineshop.ms-motorservice.com/msi/MSICD?lang=E&page=showRSDetail&ksnr=800111510000&stacklevel=2&hisdir=fwd

 

Hi!
The engine im keeping my eyes on is this one, where can I see the number you are talking about?

 ( https://www.bildelsbasen.se/?link=item&searchmode=2&vc1=191&pc1=120&regnr=XGC494&sml=1&vc[0]=191107100&vcx=4208&pc[0]=120101100&post_id=34536710 )
Any guidance where it's placed on the engine?

Or is it actually displayed on the page?

Either way thanks in advanced for all help so far!

 

New engine and change I already have gotten a price for. To repair my current engine no workshop has taken that as an solution.

 

 

[rayx]

It is engine serial number, together with engine code printed on the white label sticked on top cover of the timing, yet stamped on the block on joint near gearbox, but there is usually corroded. Can´t see that detail on that page, but ask seller, should be no problem to give it to you.

 

http://www.skoda-auto.com/en/mini-apps/owners-manuals/pages/octavia-1z.aspx?requestOwnersManualOnlineVersion=en/Octavia_1Z/05-2007/Manual/Octavia/online&requestOwnersManualLanguage=en&requestOwnersManualEditionDate=05-2007#!pageId=00522&anchorId=d16460e22795

 

Sample

Edited 27 July, 2017 by rayx

[Volfi]

14 minutes ago, rayx said:

It is engine serial number, together with engine code printed on the white label sticked on top cover of the timing, yet stamed on the block on joint near gearbox, but there is usually corroded. Can´t see that detail on that page, but ask seller, should be no problem to give it to you.

 

http://www.skoda-auto.com/en/mini-apps/owners-manuals/pages/octavia-1z.aspx?requestOwnersManualOnlineVersion=en/Octavia_1Z/05-2007/Manual/Octavia/online&requestOwnersManualLanguage=en&requestOwnersManualEditionDate=05-2007#!pageId=00522&anchorId=d16460e22795

 

Sample

 

So, to be correct. The engine number above is - BWA 086 093?

Will get in contact with the engine seller to see what number it has.

 

 

----------

EDIT: 
I got in contact with the seller and the only number they could provide was -  06F100033GX

Don't really know if that's correct.  :P 

Edited 27 July, 2017 by Volfi

[rayx]

Yes, you see that right, yet production date 16th September 2006. According that TPI you are looking for engine produced from the end of 2007 or begining of 2008, they do not specify date for the serial number 219 337.

Edited 27 July, 2017 by rayx

[Volfi]

17 minutes ago, rayx said:

Yes, you see that right, yet production date 16th September 2006.

 

The  I got from seller was only this -  "06F100033GX"

Not correct code?

[rayx]

This is part number, X in the suffix used only for parts when you return your original part, so it is cheeper than part without X. As Bildelsbasen.se sel, used parts, I am sure that number is just as reference ...

According ETKA, you can have 06F100033G (8060€ without German VAT 19%), replaced by 06F100040P, again 06F100040PX, than 06F100098X (4890€ without German VAT 19%)... 

Or 06F100033GX (4560€ without German VAT 19%) replaced again by 06F100098X.

 

As they give the photo on their site, ask them to give you detailed photo of that label, can´t they do so?

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/?link=item&searchmode=3&query=06F100033G&post_id=34536710

 

But you look around that site, some info are very suspicious ...

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/se-sv/OEM/06F100033G/

 

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/?link=item&searchmode=3&query=06F100033G&post_id=34549039 offered as with only 7 908km

but owners book say one service done at 70 639km on 4th November 2016 ... well, usual story with wreckyards, do not get why they give just photo on their site ...

 

 

Edited 27 July, 2017 by rayx

[Volfi]

53 minutes ago, rayx said:

This is part number, X in the suffix used only for parts when you return your original part, so it is cheeper than part without X. As Bildelsbasen.se sel, used parts, I am sure that number is just as reference ...

According ETKA, you can have 06F100033G (8060€ without German VAT 19%), replaced by 06F100040P, again 06F100040PX, than 06F100098X (4890€ without German VAT 19%)... 

Or 06F100033GX (4560€ without German VAT 19%) replaced again by 06F100098X.

 

As they give the photo on their site, ask them to give you detailed photo of that label, can´t they do so?

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/?link=item&searchmode=3&query=06F100033G&post_id=34536710

 

But you look around that site, some info are very suspicious ...

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/se-sv/OEM/06F100033G/

 

http://en.bildelsbasen.se/?link=item&searchmode=3&query=06F100033G&post_id=34549039 offered as with only 7 908km

but owners book say one service done at 70 639km on 4th November 2016 ... well, usual story with wreckyards, do not get why they give just photo on their site ...

 

 

 

I have called the seller and they will look it up on the engine, awaiting for their call.

About the milage and the servicebook. You are seeing "Milage" on the website. And the servicebook is in kilometer. So.. The numbers do add up as it seems to be serviced not long before the crash / hit that made it end up in parts ^^

[Volfi]

So! The label says this (on new engine):

 

 

Same issue?

[rayx]

Possibly, no one knows, how it looks inside ... TPI is clear, they could be 100% sure with piston rings from BWA 219 337, little less then already from BWA 202 030 as of 12.11.2007.

Edited 27 July, 2017 by rayx

[olebentel]

Hi, I have the same engine in my girlfriend's RS (2008) and these engines are known to use oil, but I was able to improved to 1 liter in ~5000 km with the following:

 

1. changed the PCV system (Crankcase ventilation) (I did HPPFP cam follower and Diverter valve at the same time, as they are known to fail) 

2. Did an engine flush with a cleaning agent that you will drive with for a few kilometers (Norwegian product called Pro-Long Motor-Rens+ http://prolong.no/content/motor-rens) 

3. I now use Mobil 1 5W50 and I use less than 1 liter pr ~5000 km. Before it was 1 liter pr 6-700 km. 

 

I also change oil every 7500 km, and the engine seems happy about it. 

 

It is cheaper than a engine rebuild or changing the Engine. But I never had low oil pressure on mine.

According to my girlfriend the car was different to drive after I did this, it was more responsive, felt more powerful and  more torque in lower rpm. (I drive mostly my trusty A3 1,8T, so I did not feel the difference as she did)

 

I hope this also helps you.