@S00perb but mentioned speed is 10mph ?

Just now, jafo said:

@S00perb but mentioned speed is 10mph ?

?

4 minutes ago, S00perb said:

?

 

If you'll drive 5mph then even summer tyres would be driveable 

 

With "normal" speeds - only chains or spikes

Edited 15 December, 20178 yr by jafo

Just now, jafo said:

 

If you'll drive 5mph then even summer tyres would be drivable

 

With "normal" speeds - only chains or spikes

You want to do faster than 10mph on a pure ice sharp corner ?!! Certainly not round my way with sheer drops by the side of the road.

Sure 5mph on ice on summer tyres - but only on the flat - no hills

The difference is getting the trip done or not getting the trip done, its not a race.

Add the time to get snow chains on and only doing the advised 30mph with chains and you may as well do most trips with snow tyres.

I certainly wouln't want to put chains on my 18" alloys, so 16" steel and snow tyres is the right choice for me anyway

I won't argue that winter tyres are much better than summer or all-season  Been there, done that

 

But if we are talking about driving in full-winter conditions - a lot of snow and ice without clean roads - then only chains or spikes  Been there, done that

 

There are "chains" for 18" and up - not made from metal but more like nylon nets or "socks" for tyres  Been there, done that

 

Michelin Easy Grip Evolution 1

 

http://www.autosock.co.uk/

 

I like the look of those socks.

Know if they are legal instead of actual metal chains in Germany? (Will be there in a week)

You get full winter conditions of snow and ice in the UK in various regions and vehicles driving without chains or snow socks, and when they would become necessary to have on for traffic to be moving then seeing as the majority will not have them available the roads get closed with snow gates closed ie Scotland, 

then maybe some are moving withing that closed roads with suitable vehicles and tyres  that might well be without chains.

 

?

How far do you get on an un-ploughed road with 200 mm / 8" of snow if your vehicle even has 190 mm of clearance let alone 170mm 

unless you are driving on top of the snow?

Edited 15 December, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

On 12/13/2017 at 22:45, Noddy90 said:

Hmmm... I've been driving 33 years and never fitted winter tyres. Never felt I've needed them. Are they worth the expense and hassle of changing for a handful of snowy and sub-zero days? 

 

We've got 6-8" of snow here at the moment; main roads are fine but side roads have plenty of ice and slush. Perfectly navigable with care, 2nd gear and clutch-feathering; then, when you're on the main roads, it's just normal driving. 

 

Not knocking those who do buy winters; just never had a compelling reason myself ... 

 

well, several reasons:

- first and foremost your life and other motorists' or passengers' lives

- you get fined by the police if you don't have winter tyres when there's winter conditions outside and they pull you over

- insurance companies do not refund your repairs (or other cars' you may damage) in case of an incident and it's proven you didn't have winter tyres

 

and several "lesser" reasons:

- any summer tyre will cease to behave properly below 7C.

- breaking and traction qualities are dismal

 

Now, it depends on what you call winter. If there's a bit of snow flakes every other 5 years, obviously no need for dedicated winter rubber. Probably all seasons will do.

This is why police & insurance companies in the UK are not enforcing the rules above - like in mainland Europe - because your winters are not quite "continental-bad". Yet

 

Not sure how's in the US, but i laugh my ass off seeing footage of slipping 4x4s and mass-accidents on motorways, i can't imagine how they manage this "performance" if they'd had proper winter tyres and some common sense.

 

I think the main take-away here is "common sense". The germans have an old saying "From O to O" reg. winter tyres. It means "von Oktober bis Ostern" - from October to Easter. Even the law doesn't specify EXACTLY between which dates you should have winter tyres, it says "properly equipped for weather conditions". Now, depending on each of your climate specifics, go figure own timeframes

 

Good luck.

 

PS - on ice, not even 8x8 or winter tyres help you. Physics is clear. Only choice: spikes.

Edited 15 December, 20178 yr by zice

9 minutes ago, zice said:

- you get fined by the police if you don't have winter tyres when there's winter conditions outside and they pull you over

- insurance companies do not refund your repairs (or other cars' you may damage) in case of an incident and it's proven you didn't have winter tyres

What country are you in zice?
because this is not a true statement for the UK

11 minutes ago, DEL80Y said:

What country are you in zice?
because this is not a true statement for the UK

 

Romania

IMHO as responsible (for own and others' lives) drivers, we shouldn't have to rely on laws or split-hair-analyze laws to death, but use common sense instead.

Hell, i suppose 30-40 years ago in the depths & darkness of communism, we didn't even hear of dedicated winter tyres, let alone own some   But then again, neither EuroNCAP existed....and it does now (since 1997), for a reason.

 

We're in 2018 (almost), those things are pretty affordable for every pocket. Hell, even 2nd hand used winter rubber is 10 times better than summer tyres.

 

I think we kinda hijacked this thread, it was supposed to be 18" vs 16" - something :P

Edited 15 December, 20178 yr by zice

Yeah just saying to clarify that it's a false statement for the Uk as you were replying to a member from the UK..

I also say that once you have driven on" winters"  you will not go back to driving "summer" tyres in winter or when it gets below 7 degrees which living in Scotaland is quite a lot...
Have used cheap Riken winters which were rated about 34 out of 40 in tyre tests.
Then tried Dunlop winters on my wife's Merc C Class and now finally on Continental TS850P on my Skoda 4x4  which are incredible no wonder they top the winter tyre tests

I'll shut up soon because you're right - it ISN'T actually a winter tyre thread.  However, down here in Shropshire I haven't had a single day in years and years and years where I couldn't drive my car on my standard tyres due to the weather.  I would have to spend a load of money covering no more than 1-2000 miles per winter so it would take me about 10 years to get my money's worth.  No tyre - however carefully kept - will last 10 years of use-storage-use-storage...  Cross-climates might well be the best compromise...

 

Scotland and Romania very different prospects, I grant you.

Edited 15 December, 20178 yr by Noddy90

3 minutes ago, Noddy90 said:

I'll shut up soon because you're right - it ISN'T actually a winter tyre thread.  However, down here in Shropshire I haven't had a single day in years and years and years where I couldn't drive my car on my standard tyres due to the weather.  I would have to spend a load of money covering no more than 1-2000 miles per winter so it would take me about 10 years to get my money's worth.  No tyre - however carefully kept - will last 10 years of use-storage-use-storage...  Cross-climates might well be the best compromise...

 

Scotland and Romania very different prospects, I grant you.

 

true, nevertheless looking forward to RWC2019  

I like the look of those socks.

Know if they are legal instead of actual metal chains in Germany? (Will be there in a week)

9 hours ago, S00perb said:

. But our roads in the UK are just not up to 18" tyres. German roads, a different ball game.

I guess you haven't been in Germany in the last 10 years? Their roads are terrible. Best roads in Europe (of the countries that I frequently drive in, being Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and France) are the toll roads in France. Than probably our own Dutch roads. Then there is a long time nothing, and only then the German autobahns. The Belgium roads are the worst.

4 hours ago, andrehj said:

I guess you haven't been in Germany in the last 10 years? Their roads are terrible. Best roads in Europe (of the countries that I frequently drive in, being Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and France) are the toll roads in France. Than probably our own Dutch roads. Then there is a long time nothing, and only then the German autobahns. The Belgium roads are the worst.

We must be going to different parts of Germany. I go up French coast to Belguim, Brugges over to Brussels, down to Strasbourg and spend a month in Baden-Württemberg every year. The roads on that route were

French terrible till last 2 years

Belgium motorway Brugges to Brussels terrible, worst sections till last year

Germany Baden-Württemberg great - really nice and smooth every year for the last 16 years

This year the whole route was good. Where I live the roads are just falling apart and 18" is just not suitable

9 hours ago, Noddy90 said:

............down here in Shropshire I haven't had a single day in years and years and years where I couldn't drive my car on my standard tyres due to the weather.  ............

There are Shropshire routes you wouldn't have done every year for the last 6 years if you had tried them in the wrong week:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/llanfair+waterdine/bishops+castle/@52.4429063,-3.1083517,13951m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x48701eb5cfb0acc3:0x6f3edd3c3006a3a2!2m2!1d-3.117897!2d52.38102!1m5!1m1!1s0x48700ffd3b29af49:0x2702b017b6bfc73a!2m2!1d-2.9984386!2d52.4900507?hl=en

Llanfair has been cut off every year for at least 2 days. (I know 'cos I have seen the messages go up about the village hall being closed!!)

It really depends on how rural you are. 2 miles from an A road - maybe fine. 10 miles and steep hills - you need snow tyres.

And it really is much much safer just on a motorway under 7 degrees.

10 hours ago, DEL80Y said:

.......... once you have driven on" winters"  you will not go back to driving "summer" tyres in winter or when it gets below 7 degrees.............

Totally agree

 

10 hours ago, zice said:

 

I think we kinda hijacked this thread, it was supposed to be 18" vs 16" - something :P

 

I think it all worked out as I wanted to know if it was worth going to 16" from my 18" and the push was winter tyres.

My big question is now..........will I ever go back to 18" after the winter? I am thinking not.

@S00perb maybe 17" would be good compromise?