I took my front bumper off to replace a foglight and whilst I was at it though i would remove the intercooler and clean it out

I shook it and there were a number of pieces flying round inside. Managed to tip them out the lower pipe hole and it looks to me like bits of aluminium. I can't work out if they would have come off current turbo or something else. Ive got no history to say turbo been replaced but its on 125k miles and runs perfectly engine sounds great and no strange noises from anything. Should I be concerned about this or just assume previous turbo failure and the bits not been cleared out when new one fitted?

Also is there any point in me changing the intercooler for a new one as it looks in decent condition but there are a few dents to the surface of the fins.

Will upload a picture shortly

Forgot to add when I changed sump a few months ago the oil pickup strainer had a few small chunks of metal stuck in it

Edited 5 September, 20178 yr by clarendon462

More than likely parts of a failed compressor wheel from a old turbo. The intercooler catches most of the parts and the bits that do pass will mostly exit through the exhaust.

 

I'd personally get a pressure washer in there just to be sure then reuse it. 

I flushed it out with lots of carb cleaner and some more big bits came out they were sat at the top of the intercooler so hadnt passed through yet. Glad i spotted it though before they had made their way though into engine.

Wonder what other surprises im going to come across shame its not documented in the service history

2 hours ago, clarendon462 said:

I flushed it out with lots of carb cleaner and some more big bits came out they were sat at the top of the intercooler so hadnt passed through yet. Glad i spotted it though before they had made their way though into engine.

Wonder what other surprises im going to come across shame its not documented in the service history

 

Relax, the intercooler passages are too fine to allow anything big through and fine aluminium fragments will have blown right through long ago without damaging anything, Cylinders, valves and pistons are not fragile at all.

Thats what I thought, was mainly interested to know whether it means the turbo had been replaced as I couldn't imagine the car would be working if the turbo was in this state!

6 minutes ago, clarendon462 said:

Thats what I thought, was mainly interested to know whether it means the turbo had been replaced as I couldn't imagine the car would be working if the turbo was in this state!

 

Absolutely, so it's all good news, a nice new turbo means years of trouble free motoring for you.

It still seems to siren a little but only noticeable when you are outside the car its a very quiet sound. Otherwise its perfect and boosts well etc.

For all I know it could have had a recon or second hand turbo put on it so I suppose Ill never really know

The other tell tale is the oil feed from the oil cooler leaks slightly on the thread which I assume is down to it not being tightened back up quite enough

I would be inclined to whip the turbo intake pipe off and have a look at the compressor wheel for piece of mind. 

 

Also they came from factory with a KKK turbo, so if it has say a Garrett on there it's a good indication it has been changed. 

57 minutes ago, lupoluke said:

I would be inclined to whip the turbo intake pipe off and have a look at the compressor wheel for piece of mind. 

 

Also they came from factory with a KKK turbo, so if it has say a Garrett on there it's a good indication it has been changed. 

 

You'd be wasting your time. If you find metal like that in the intercooler it means that WAS the compressor wheel and the car won't run any more let alone drive.

 

Of course it's been changed, who cares what it is if the car runs well.

Yeah car pulls very well remapped as well so I'm fairly sure those pieces haven't come off my current turbo. Found a load more so could just about put them all together to make an entire turbine lol

I'd be more worried about the quality of repairs that had been done when the turbo went. I would have assumed the boost pipes and intercooler (if not replaced, they're cheap enough) would have been cleaned to ensure no debris. The oil should most definitely have been replaced. If it were mine I would be doing this now as if I were replacing the knackered turbo.

Well I'd guess the oil was changed the point is I don't know when it failed and was replaced could have been many years ago. I would guess the cost of having the sump removed and oil pickup cleaned, plus removing the front bumper to take off the intercooler and clean it out, then remove all pipework to clean out was probably going to cost the owner so much extra they werent bothered about it

I know what you mean I would always get it done properly but not everyone sees their car like that lol

Probably done just before you bought it to make it fit for sale. As you don't when and what was done you currently have no idea if any of these bits of metal are creating damage elsewhere in the engine or blocking an oil feed pipe to the turbo with an expensive failure round the next corner. I wouldn't have been too concerned about the bits in the pipe work and intercooler but within the oil is never good. 

Is it not to be expected to have a few small fragments stuck to the oil pickup with turbo failure??

I would highly doubt it was done by previous owners as they kept every bit of paperwork for it and had it listed for sale for about 4 months before I bought it so doubt they were trying to get rid quickly. I would guess it was owners previous to them as they owned it for 105000 miles from new and I have zero paperwork from their ownership.

If you had a turbo failure would you advertise it? If the previous owners had the car well maintained and everything documented as you say, would you not have expected the fragments to have been removed in the previous oil changes. Those in the pipes and intercooler if the job hadn't been done well.  I suppose it comes down to how long the previous owners had kept the car for. 

36 minutes ago, CWARD said:

If you had a turbo failure would you advertise it? If the previous owners had the car well maintained and everything documented as you say, would you not have expected the fragments to have been removed in the previous oil changes. Those in the pipes and intercooler if the job hadn't been done well.  I suppose it comes down to how long the previous owners had kept the car for. 

I would certainly advertise if it had a new/recon turbo fitted as surely thats a good thing on a higher mileage car, less for me to have to worry about in the future in theory.

The fragments in the oil strainer wouldn't have been removed through just oil changes would they. Its got full main dealer service history every 10k/12months so im not too concerned.

I had worked out from your postings that you are not concerned - not!

My friend's old SAAB 9-5 suffered turbo failure when they were in France on holiday, using garage chosen by breakdown cover insurance company, the parts were stripped off, my mate refused to pay for a new intercooler and pipes, so that garage refused to put their name to that repair so put one or two parts back on it and the breakdown cover took it to port, ferried it home! The quoted price to supply and fit new turbo + intercooler and pipes was over £3500 in France, my mate got a NOS turbo and oil pipe etc for peanuts on ebay and his local garage hosed out the intercooler and the complete repair cost well under that initial price!

3 hours ago, CWARD said:

If you had a turbo failure would you advertise it? If the previous owners had the car well maintained and everything documented as you say, would you not have expected the fragments to have been removed in the previous oil changes. Those in the pipes and intercooler if the job hadn't been done well.  I suppose it comes down to how long the previous owners had kept the car for. 

Not if, say, I'd replaced one KKK with another. I would say if I'd replaced the KKK with a Garrett, because that technically means the car is modified, which could cause the buyer issues with insurance.

Ok well Im a bit confused as to what is being said here, but the main thing I wanted to establish was these pieces are not part of my current turbo. I think its fair to say they arent.

Regardless of whether the job was done properly or not it all seems to be ok for now. Needless to say Im glad I found those pieces because although I doubt they could make it through the intercooler, its probably not best practice to leave metal pieces in the intake system.

I am trying to make contact with the original owner of the car to see if they had the issues with it because I am almost certain the lady I bought it off would have mentioned it at point of sale.

What are the main reasons for turbos failing? Surely if the oil has been changed every year with the correct stuff and the car is properly maintained then it can only be put down to wear and tear? If I had known the turbo had been replaced It would have been more reassuring to me when I was buying that it wasnt the original 120k mile turbo still fitted.

Only way to check is to pull the turbo off and inspect the impellers. As your finding metal in the boost pipes it would be the compressor blades which you could just remove the inlet from the air filter and inspect. If it were from the turbine side it would be blown out in the exhaust. 

3 hours ago, clarendon462 said:

Ok well Im a bit confused as to what is being said here, but the main thing I wanted to establish was these pieces are not part of my current turbo. I think its fair to say they arent.

 

This is entirely the correct answer, lock the thread before the hysteria spreads, it's contagious.

So theres a possibility that even with all those pieces not attached to the turbo anymore it would still boost and run 170bhp and 400nm torque? @CWARD Is that what you are trying to tell me, because thats why Im confused 

And how do I go about locking the thread??

Edited 6 September, 20178 yr by clarendon462

A turbo can still function with damaged compressor blades and you'd barely notice as the shaft has bearings at either end. Only when the bearings or seals become damaged does it become obvious there is a problem. 

You may still get the full power with a blade or two missing but with loss of boost. Unless you've had the car on a dyno recently, not entirely sure how you'd know if you're getting the same power as when it was new but at 12 year old you will have already have some performance. 

4 minutes ago, CWARD said:

A turbo can still function with damaged compressor blades and you'd barely notice as the shaft has bearings at either end. Only when the bearings or seals become damaged does it become obvious there is a problem. 

You may still get the full power with a blade or two missing but with loss of boost. Unless you've had the car on a dyno recently, not entirely sure how you'd know if you're getting the same power as when it was new but at 12 year old you will have already have some performance. 

 

Please excuse my engineering insight here, but had you considered the possibility that the compressor wheel might go out of balance a twitch at 200,000 RPM with bits missing from it? That's why they disintegrate and end up in the intercooler, the turbo runs on bushes which are in the middle and not at the ends of the shaft, there are no bearings at all, the shaft floats on an oil film just like the engines crankshaft and camshaft.

 

clarendon, your car is fine, you've landed on your feet with it and good job on cleaning out the intercooler and pipework so well, there is no way for shrapnel to end up in the oil line or the sump since it all ends up in the intercooler or getting blown through the exhaust system, anyone who suggests otherwise doesn't understand the basic workings of an internal combustion engine. Enjoy.

Bv39 kkk turbo which iirc is what is in his Fabia vrs has two journal bearings or bushings one on inside of the compressor, the other on the turbine side. 

 

I'll leave it to your engineering knowledge but I wouldn't leave it to chance as it's "OK, ignore the hysteria" if I found metal pieces in the intercooler and oil strainer. For the sake of removing a pipe and checking the compressor for damage and the shaft for play I know which I'd do but not my car or concern