Hello all... sorry for the seriously long post, but I think you will enjoy it...

 

Like quite a few people on this planet, that has owned the VW/AUDI/SKODA/SEAT cars with the combination of the 1.4/1.2 TSI engines of the ea211 era, coupled with the famous DSG 7 (dq200) automatic gearbox, I have also had the chance of experiencing the famous DSG slip!

See the following link of first occurance:

 

Since I have read the whole internet about either ea211 engine issues and the DQ200 gearbox issues, I thought that by now all of the problems had dissapeared, since there are practicaly no, or only a few issues that pop up from time to time after the end of year 2015, so no biggy I thought. I went ahead and bought a fabia with this combination of engine and gearbox.

Then after about 5000km the situation on the video above this has occured. If you listen to it very carefully, there is also some strange mettalic like sound also present when the slipping occurs.
This video was actualy taken by me to show the stealership and the skoda factory, that something is actualy wrong.

Lets just say, that I had first complained to the stealership at the 6000km mark of a brand new car, that something is wrong. It took 9000 km more for me to drive this car in this state to achieve that they had changed the clutch pack and the mechatronics of my gearbox.

 

After this dreadfull experience of waranty work from the stealership, I was again a little more exited to have a working car again (mind you that the new car experience had already been ruined at the point that it had started slipping).

Well this then did not last long unfortunately... gues what... same **** happened after about 5000 km driven again. At this point I was furious. Why the F*** me!!!

 

At this point I have yet again contacted the stealership and to their request made another video:

 

 

Needles to say, that the DSG has been reset each time that I visited the stealership, off course this was totaly usles! I lost count on how many times I had to go there to either show what was the car doing.

 

Well then I waited for abot two weeks to be contacted by the stealership, but like always they obviously forgot.
I am a software engineer and of course have a work related disfunction, that I do not rest until a problem is solved, and I want at least answers of the reason for this hapening if not the solution.

So here my story begins... (before I begin I would like to point out, that I had no access to VCDS or alike)

 

For about two months I have been listening and feeling what is going on with the car during my daily comute to work and back. I have spent countles hours reading the VW SSP 511, SSP 0AM, and other documents related to this specific combination of engine and gearbox, watched the whole youtube for similar videos, read all of comment, visited all forums that had similar info, and found no concrete solution for this problem. Either sell the car or TCU or ECU tune. This was not what I wanted to do, when the car is such a joy to drive when it is working :D.

 

After this occured the second time in this short period it had come to my head, that the gearbox may not be the actual problem... (now you might say, that I am crazy :D)

Due to my studies of all available material (and also having a lot of mechanical know how from my hobbies of motocicle mechanics), I knew I had to listen to the car more carefully and also discover the exact pattern, when does this occur.

At this time the most inportant information was, that heat form the engine solves the issue if the car, after is warmed up, is parked for about 10-15 min. If I drive from this point forward, the car handled like new, no slips and nothing... after about 15km (if it was cold outside, around 10 degrees celsius, or lower) the issue appeared slightly again. During the summer, the problem did however not reapear once the car was warm, higher temperatures I guess (this is I gues the exact same reason that the cnahdged gearbox parts have lasted 5000 km before the problem was again visible, I know I have been driving differently during this time).

 

Then I thought... Heat goes usualy up and not that much to the side (the gearbox side)... simple farmers logic I guess... so a simple 15 minute stop is not enough to properly heat up some metallic part of gearbox that is also hidden somewhere between the engine and gearbox... Also the wind in this case, cannot get to the clutches and cool them of in such a short driving cicle...

 

AHA!!!! so the problem is probably some very exposed part!

So I went, poped up the hood and started looking... F***, there are a milion sensors exposed under the hood, that can be heated or cooled quite quickly... even the throtlebody as a whole unit.

So I went again to the books and forums... and by the process of elimination I have either checked or tested each sensor behaviour during driving or feeling if it is operating as expected (as I said no VCDS unfortunately).

All were OK as it seams. So another blind street... F***

 

Ok, then there was also another issue, a weird noise, that was present during so called slips. One day I came across one thread here on briskoda, that the plastic part going from the airbox to the front mask of the car can rattle.

I took a piece of A4 paper, folded it to appropriate size, and put the F***** between the plastic parts (I will post a picture below).

 

 

WELL,WELL... The dreaded metallic noise (this is what you hear from inside of car) had dropped by half volume!

 

AHA... I am closer, finaly one breakthrough!!!

 

Ok now we will go back to the heat being the primary problem solver...

So now I took the high temperature air hand fan and basically heated each and every sensor on the car each day before going to work, to try to pinpoint the problematic one.

I have noticed the most diference in behaviour of the car after the after turbo MAP sensor was heated before driving....

 

AHA! Found the little ******! So I then due to my knowledge of the engine workings I switched the two sensors that are on the intake side of the engine (yes, this car has 2 MAP sensors, and they are the same). Unfortunately there was no difference. F***

Another blind street.

 

But wait!!!! The metallic sound had chandged (a little, by now my senses are equavilent to a german sheppard)! AHA!!! (Obviously I had moved something that caused the noise)

 

I have also noticed that since the car travel speed is accelerating in a linear manor, that clutches are not and cannot be slipping, by this time I was 99.99% of eliminating the DQ200 from the possible suspect list (spead is measured with ABS sensors on back wheels). I have also listened and the actual engine hmmmmmmmm... sound (noise form combustion happening) and frequency did not change during problematic moments. So if I now put 1+1 together I come to the only possible problematic point can be either the turbo, wastegate, throttle body, sparks, coils, injectors,... F*** too many parts all very important.

 

OK, proces of elimination again (Please note, that this problematic "slip" could be repeated anywhere during an 30km drive, this is a lot of time to heat the engine, and gearbox):

Turbo... come on, the first one that gets the heat...

wastegate... on the turbo, and also is dependent on MAP sensors mainly for its operation...

throttle body... connected to loud pedal in cabin and cruise control (cruise control also did this "slip", not only the loud pedal)

sparks and coils... I know a misfire and this was certenly not the issue, also one of the component that also get heated very quickly.

injectors... also get heated and are quite hidden form wind

fuel... gets premium all the time, so i didn't even touch this.

Here we go again...F***

 

F***

 

Ok now the last weak my bloodhound eyes noticed that the "slip" occurs from 1400rpm forward on light acceleration, If i go lower there is no issue, since turbo is not active yet, if I go WOT on the loud pedal, than there is also no problem (this also means that throttle body is fully open and turbo has basically no limits during acceleration).

 

Then I get a revelation... Of course you stupid F*****, Obviously you have a F***** turbo leak somewhere on the intake system. It all goes together now...

On light acceleration the pressure has to be maintained on accurate levels in order to achieve a smooth drivability, but if the system leaks, then the system has to compensate somehow... well the result is all but smooth....

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA F****

 

At this point It has also come to my attention, that with use of the MAP sensors, the ECU calculates engine load and torque produced, which is one of the most important information for the DSG gearbox to know what to do.

You cannot calculate  something that is all over the place to a smooth number and expect smooth results...

 

So now I have a clear TODO list... Check all possible itake parts for possible leaks.

Here comes the time for very professional tools to be used to find the leak... Air Compressor with regulator that can limit pressure to 2 bar. Turbine in this engine makes pressure in that range. Duck tape and zip-ties :D.

 

This was totaly a DIY project. I slapped the compressor hose on the air filter housing, duck tape and zip tied all the appropriate holes where air can escape, and start filling the system...

 

EUREKA!!! We have a hisssssing sound...

Please note the spots on the picture...

 

Then I took my trusty zipp-ties and zip-tied that part shut... Now its time for a test drive...

 

The second I got back and steped out the car, I could saw the smug smile on my face.

 

Not only that the by now the stupid noise has stopped, there were actually almost no visible "slips" present. The noise that I thought was a metallic source, was at the end all plastic chatter, but in the cabin all this was clearly heard as metallic noise.

 

F*** YEAH!!! I am almost there...

 

After dismantling these hoses from the turbo to the throttle body I have found that these hoses are designed to self destruct themself due to engine vibrations and tolerances that are just to off to hold the needed pressure. the o-ring gaskets in these plastic parts eate a channel in the plastic hoses and allow for the air to escape when cold. So waranty work is useles here, because new ones will do the same until VW does some revised parts without cost cutting, which we all know that tey will not do! At leas not for the 1.2 or 1.4 TSI engines, since they stopped production... But wait for it... The 1.0 TSI has the same overall construction and I have noticed that they have the exact same problem ...

 

Fun stuff this...

 

So the resolution that worked for me? I have made gaskets (donut shape) that fits inbetween these hoses where the hoses come together on the upper picture, and for now zip-tied these hoses together, but am waitng for exhaust springs to come to mail to do this properly, just like VW should done in the first place... Dismantle this yourself, buy a sheat of DIY gasket making material, and make a multi layer gasket, which can be glued together with an appropriate silicon type glue for engine block sealing like locktite.

 

I hope you F****** from VW/SKODA/AUDI/SEAT are seing this ****, since an ordinary sw and electronics r&d engineer had to solve this issue without any support!!!

 

 

Hope that you have enjoyed this article on yet another VW hickup which they cannot solve again

 

On the other note... Why do diesels not have these issues? I think they use silicon like hoses instead of plastic, but I did not make further searches to confirm this.

 

 

 

And also another note... Which is very important...

 

Always before you turn the engine on, wait until only EPC and engine lights are lit. The ECU needs this time to get a valid sensor reading.

This discovery also helped alot during my observations.

And also to VW personaly... If I were you, I would be very embarased that such a stupid failure has made you such loss of servicing moneydue to false diagnosis on the first place... I cannot imagine how many mechatronics and clutches were replaced for this problem...

 

For everyone that this solves your issues, please register and coment or leave your comments for others to see.

 

If for some reason someone is thankfull enough I also take donations for my effort, but on the other hand you probably have no money if you are resolving thiss issue with faulty diagnose of real problem.

Edited 8 October, 20178 yr by krigl

Hi again...

 

Another note... At the lower picture, please notice the small plastic spacers that are molded into the adapter hose. Mine were rubbed off to quite an extent due to vibration of engine, so in order for this fix to work, I had to cut them off to achieve a full smooth surface to which the newly inserted gaskets would sit on.

Interesting investigation there, always interested in the 'mode's of failure', it seems this is another suspect part just waiting to wear itself away!

 

The funny thing is, that I guess even the manual transmission tsi cars suffer from this issue, but are not noticed due to the fact that the operation of the throttle on the manual transmission car is different than an automatic.
In lame terms, on the automatic cars the driver tells the car at what speed he wants to drive (with the speed and travel distance of the loud pedal), but in the manual he tells the car at what rpm in pre-selected gear he wants to drive the car, so in this case almost put the loud pedal to the floor and then lifting off when appropriate speed is achieved. In the automatic if you do this, it will drop 2 or three gears and go crazy  on you :D.

Be very careful if using Sealers or Silicone Sealers on Air Intakes, because some can be the death of a MAP or MAF's / Sensors.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/425424-2017-another-dq200-7-speed-dsg-service-campaign 

As to the DQ200 DSG,

There was a World Wide Recall on DQ200 2009- 2012/13 to change the Synthetic Oil to mineral Oil & do a Software Update 

& some places in the World fit new MCU's, ie New Zealand.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign 

In Europe just a Service Campaign',  '34F5'. Skoda never started til May 2014, and there are vehicles that needed the Preventative Service Campaign still not carried out, and it was to prevent power loss, but VW Group UK persuaded the DVSA it was not Safety Critical so no RECALL, 

just a Skoda Secret Service Campaign Action. 

http://master.skoda-auto.com/mini-apps/recall-actions 

('34H5' if needed might not appear on this VIN checker.  So if you want to know ask Skoda or a Main Dealership.

 

Then last year and early this year a Service Campaign on some DQ200 DSG from 2013-2015 to do a Software update.

'34H5',  so you need to check if your car needs doing.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/333481-vrchlabi-plant-500000th-dq-200-transmission 

Edited 9 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

If the MAP sensor is through its life soaked in oil (pcv and blow-by gas re-circulation) and also gets fumes from silicon used to glue the engine together on the production stage, I see no problem using this at this spot also. It is in minimal quantities anyhow if you are not an idiot when doing this...

Never underestimate how many idiots there are out there. So forewarned is forearmed.

Congratulations on your diagnostic work, and fix.

A sketch (or photo) showing the gasket arrangement you've made might be a useful addition to your verbal description.

 

Great investigation.

I have the exact same issue on my VW Golf 1.2 TSi DSG since 6000km.

 

I have a clutch pack changed at 10.000km, then it started again 13.000km.

 

I will check the air intake gasket later today to see if the wear exists.

30 minutes ago, Wino said:

Congratulations on your diagnostic work, and fix.

A sketch (or photo) showing the gasket arrangement you've made might be a useful addition to your verbal description.

 

 

I will do this next time when I will dismantle this on my car, after I receive the ordered springs and possibly new o-ring gaskets of larger thickness, if i will source one out.

Hey krigl,

 

At lunch time I went to my car, and tried to zip tie with 7mm ties. After 10mins of test drive rattle seems to be reduced but rpm jumps persists. However, after 10mins due to the heat, the zip ties becomes loose due to expanded.

Edited 9 October, 20178 yr by berker

As I said already, only zip ties are not a solution, extra gaskets needs to be put inside, then you will see the difference. Since the rattle is reduced, this pinpoints the problematic spot.

2 hours ago, krigl said:

As I said already, only zip ties are not a solution, extra gaskets needs to be put inside, then you will see the difference. Since the rattle is reduced, this pinpoints the problematic spot.

 

I have contacted to my local dealer service department and I asked for a replacement.

 

They claimed, if it was leaking boost pressure, there must be an error code stored in the ecu.

 

They have the part in stock and it is app. 20 GBP. So I will get a replacement part installed this saturday. If the new part is installed, then there should be no leakage and hence no "dsg slip" sense would occur.

 

Since this is a fairly cheap try, I will give it a go.

 

I will reply back on the replacement part results soon.

Since this part is exactli the same as now, i susspect that this will soon reocurr. But is worth a try if it is realy so cheap. 

Please also verify that the longer hose seat is not damaged in the place where the original gasket seats. Mine has a grove in that place. 

Please forgive me (I am not being flippant) but what exactly should I be seeing to get alarmed about in those dashboard videos?

Just a small hint may help. I found trying to looking at the gear selected, the speed and the revs (ie 3 items) with only two eyes was too much for me.

Focus on the rpm gauge. It should be linear. And not jumpy. Sometimes it is more noticable other times not so. Mind you that throttle input was constant every time. 

Edited 11 October, 20178 yr by krigl

Throttle is highly unlikely to be constant even if you think your foot is steady, 

try a DSG with hand controls and you will notice the difference.

 

As to linear, maybe in a car with a CVT, not a Automated Manual / DSG.

Then you are driving a not very powerful small cc turbo car with variable valve timing and on a road not a rolling road with a constant resistance.

 

Re, The title of 'The story of the Famous DQ200 Clutch slip...'

?

Is there 'Famous DSG Clutch Slip, with DQ200 ?,

because as much as i know about them, Clutch Slip is not the common or well known issue.

On a straight road this jumping of rev  counter between 100-250 rpm steps is just not acceptable. The problem persisted in all modes of dsg even in manual mode. I understand slip when you take off and maybe during gear changes, but not during acceleration in one preselected gear. How would you feel if a manual was doing the same? I would be worried. 8

 

Why dsg slip... Well because it sounds like, looks like it, feels like it... But in my case it clearly was another issue. 

 

Maybe you did not surf the web to an extent that I was forced to and you did not notice how many similar threads are open and unresolved with same problem as seen on the recordings. 

You need your faulty DSG / Car fixed then, so keep on fighting for that, or reject your car as 'Not fit for purpose.  Because if the DSG has clutch slip it is not as 

the 2nd biggest car manufacturers engineers designed it to be,

but that does not make it Famous DSG Slip with DQ200, the fundamental design, manufacturing / component and quality control issues are not even famous 

even though Millions of DQ200 DSG were recalled around the world, and Europe was not included as in the world, and owners never received extended warranties.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/293145-dsg-issues-or-even-real-problems 

 

EDIT, 

Sorry my bad & stupidity,

i missed where there was no DSG fault after all, and the DSG resets were just a waste of time.

Edited 11 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski

Read the thread, he's fixed the problem!

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Read the thread, he's fixed the problem!

Thank you! 

Wino,

Skoda / VW will no doubt use 'Simply Clever' thinking then, 

get the TPI out, do service campaigns going on and replacing the faulty part on vehicles of owners reporting the Famous Clutch Slip..

 

They will stop telling drivers 'They all do that',  stop just doing Resets, and stop wasting Customers time and money.

 

Everyword of the OP is difficult to read, or the videos to watch on a phone, 

well for me anyway.

 

So title change maybe,

and DSG Famous Slip is not so, and the issue is the air intake affecting the efficient function of said DQ200.

Edited 11 October, 20178 yr by Headinawayoffski