Start-Stop with DSG does it work for you - discussion.

[Gti Jazz Blue]

Having just moved to a 5 month old F/L Octavia III vRS 230 with DSG - I'm not sure I like Start-Stop Technology - as an example:

 

On a visit yesterday to my local ToolStation (other outlets available - lol) I stopped in the access road to reverse into a space and in the time that I braked and moved my hand to the selector - it had switched the Engine off, so adding a delay to my parking maneuver. Now I know that I can switch the function off (and even possibly disable it entirely using VCDS) but it would be nice if you could alter the switch-off time, or invert the function so that it is off as default and you enable it if your want. My Wife's Mini has it - but as a manual if you keep your foot on the clutch it will keep the Engine running, I assume that is the same in a Manual Octavia.

 

Is anyone aware of a workaround with it on a DSG similar to keeping your foot on the clutch in a Manual?

 

 

[mk4gtiturbo]

It'll come in time as you get used to it, you can control the start/stop with pressure on the brake pedal.  After 3 1/2 year of driving my DSG I'm pretty good at getting it to stop only when I want it to!!

[JD52]

2 minutes ago, mk4gtiturbo said:

It'll come in time as you get used to it, you can control the start/stop with pressure on the brake pedal.  After 3 1/2 year of driving my DSG I'm pretty good at getting it to stop only when I want it to!!

+1

 

[POWYSWALES]

It's a shame it did not have some other sensors that could communicate with traffic lights etc, so that it only switched the engine off if it was going to be for several seconds or more, a lot of my stop start end up being on roundabouts or when I arrive home and want to reverse onto my drive. It is a pain when it is just shutting down for a few seconds or less, and why I'm sure the starter motor is built better to cope with stop start it still must put a strain on the system in the end.

[Gti Jazz Blue]

Seems that I will need to play a bit more - thanks for the advice 

[ahenners]

As above you'll get used to it. That said... I tend  to just switch it off these days. Most of my journeys are motorway based anyway, so I haven't noticed a huge difference in fuel economy with it off.

[wyx087]

Stop/Start is just a bodge for internal combustion engine to meet emission standards. It's nice when you are stopping at traffic lights but at giveway and roundablouts, it's not desirable. Thus people are forced to learn to drive in a way to cater for the car, or turn off the feature and waste fuel, generate noise at stop lights.

 

My solution is to only use ICE car when driving long distances.

 

 

[MorrisOx]

The irony of automatic stop-start is that it needs manual input to work best - i.e., turning the master switch on and off to avoid situations where inadvertent pressure in the brake pedal means it cuts in when you don’t want it to - traffic queues, roundabouts, parking maneouvres etc.

[TDIum]

It's awful and always gets turned off when I start the car. 

I turn it on sometimes but not often if its going to do any good. 

[Gumby]

My 245 DSG is the first car I've had with stop start. It takes a while to get used to, but I now know when it will and won't switch the engine off. 

That being said, the reversing situation the OP mentions still catches me out from time to time! 

[Trebor77]

Just turn the wretched thing off

[prichards1234]

yea me to. its ok if your stuck for ages , but day to day travel its a total pain.

[themanwithnoaim]

Told the steelers to disable it & the noise generator glad to say, they managed it

[norsko]

10 hours ago, mk4gtiturbo said:

It'll come in time as you get used to it, you can control the start/stop with pressure on the brake pedal.  After 3 1/2 year of driving my DSG I'm pretty good at getting it to stop only when I want it to!!

 

After what I have understand this is much more difficult in 2016+ Octavias, mine stops the engine before the car stands totally still and is very irritating in slow traffic some times.

[flybynite]

As I think I have said before If you have DSG especially after MY16 be very careful if you control it with brake pressure.

 

The point that the S/S engages is also the point that the clutches release on the DSG. You can see that when you press the brake with S/S disabled and watch the revs drop as the clutch releases. It uses the same point for both actions

 

If you are sitting there not moving on light brake pressure most likely the clutches are biting as well and you are chewing your way through the clutch packs.

 

Bad enough in a wet clutch DSG6 but I would hate to think what it does to a dry clutch DSG7

 

if you don’t like it on the day turn it off, if you don’t like it at all get it disabled. 

[nicknorman]

Stop/start is pretty good for manual transmission. Hopeless for DSG. I turn it off routinely, and only turn it on when I want the engine to stop because I can see the holdup will be many seconds. So it’s a stop start system, but not automatic!

[BoxerBoy]

4 hours ago, TDIum said:

It's awful and always gets turned off when I start the car. 

I turn it on sometimes but not often if its going to do any good. 

 

Moi aussi!

 

Spawn of the devil. Even have my wife trained to switch it off every time.

[Gti Jazz Blue]

I have a feeling it might get disabled on mine in the long run if I can't/don want to master the brake trick.

 

A shame you can't invert the system so it if off unless you turn it on.

[nicknorman]

34 minutes ago, Gti Jazz Blue said:

I have a feeling it might get disabled on mine in the long run if I can't/don want to master the brake trick.

 

A shame you can't invert the system so it if off unless you turn it on.

 

In my opinion the brake thing doesn’t work reliably. Yes it does work sometimes, but equally sometimes you just drift to a near-stop and the engine cuts before you’ve come to rest, barely touching the brake. Other times you stop expecting the engine to cut, but it doesn’t. But a firm press on the brake will then make it stop.

[ccosmin]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:20, mk4gtiturbo said:

It'll come in time as you get used to it, you can control the start/stop with pressure on the brake pedal.  After 3 1/2 year of driving my DSG I'm pretty good at getting it to stop only when I want it to!!

If you do that with DSG, you will put pressure on the transmission. Not good for DSG. When you push the brake hard, will go to N automatically, as it should. Imagine the car in Drive but with the handbrake on. Same scenario.

[flybynite]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

Other times you stop expecting the engine to cut, but it doesn’t. But a firm press on the brake will then make it stop.

 

The slope you are on makes a huge difference to the actual brake pressure needed to stop the car. Even an incline you don’t really notice.

 

If you are steep uphil very little brake pressure is needed (if any) to slow the car so the S/S may not kick in. Reverse is true on downhill. The car is quite consistent, just the situation may not be.

 

After around 2016 the bite point changed. You still get the variation, just the brake pressure that triggers it is lower. Most likely the result of the lower emissions figures on identical cars (if you believe them).

[mk4gtiturbo]

18 minutes ago, ccosmin said:

If you do that with DSG, you will put pressure on the transmission. Not good for DSG. When you push the brake hard, will go to N automatically, as it should. Imagine the car in Drive but with the handbrake on. Same scenario.

 

Is this fact or opinion?

 

Handbook extract:

 

Stop

› Fully depress and hold the brake pedal and bring the vehicle to a stop.

› Keep holding the brake pedal until driving is resumed.

The selector lever position N does not have to be selected when stopping for a

short time, such as at a cross roads.

[ccosmin]

This is a fact actually. You can test it yourself.

[flybynite]

12 minutes ago, mk4gtiturbo said:

Is this fact or opinion?

 

26 minutes ago, ccosmin said:

This is a fact actually. You can test it yourself.

 

Turn your S/S OFF, come to a halt. Watch the revs. At a certain point the clutches will disengage and the revs will drop. The car will stop ‘pulling’ as you come to a stop.

 

On mine (a petrol) they drop from around 900rpm with the clutches engaged to around 650rpm with them disengaged. This is the same point that the S/S will normally cut the engine.

 

Do it in your car and make a note of the two different rpms, one with clutches engaged one with them released. It will be different with each engine/gearbox combination.

 

Turn your S/S ON Come to a halt and keep your engine running with light brake pressure

 

If you find the car is idling at the higher idle you recorded before then your clutches are engaged and you are effectively slipping your clutch.

 

It is the way it has worked in all the DSG cars with S/S that I have driven.

 

It is no different to holding a manual on a hill with the clutch. Good excercise in clutch control but also a good way to burn out your clutch. 

[nicknorman]

3 hours ago, mk4gtiturbo said:

 

Is this fact or opinion?

 

Handbook extract:

 

Stop

› Fully depress and hold the brake pedal and bring the vehicle to a stop.

› Keep holding the brake pedal until driving is resumed.

The selector lever position N does not have to be selected when stopping for a

short time, such as at a cross roads.

 

I was of the opinion that it should be ok stationary in D with the brake on -as you say the clutch seems to disengage and the revs drop. However I looked at it with VCDS and although the clutch does disengage more, it is still partially engaged - only putting it into N or P makes it fully disengage. It’s not clear just how much is “partially engaged” and how much wear this might cause, but I’ve taken to putting it into N more than I used to, if the engine is still running and it looks like a significant duration stop..

 

That’s probably why it says “stopping for a short time”.

Edited 14 November, 2017 by nicknorman