New Rider Bike Advice

[JohnRS]

Hi all,

 

I'm planning on doing my direct access early in the new year so I'm looking at bikes now, to whet my appetite.

I'm going to use it for commuting mainly, with some occasional pleasure usage where I find the time.

I am looking for some opinions and/or experience really.

I'm in two minds at the minute:

 

Option a

Do I go for an adventure type bike, like a Honda NC750X or a used Triumph Tiger, which I think would be suited well for commuting.

 

I don't necessarily like Honda's if I'm being honest but they're cheap and my thinking is, I'll use it for commuting for 3 or so years and then buy something more pricey and something I'll use more for fun as well as commuting. I'd probably PCP it and P/X against it's replacement. 

 

Option b

Do I get something I like - a 'modern classic' type. I like the following marques; Triumph Scrambler/Thruxton/Street Cup, Harley Davidson Iron 883 or a Ducati Scrambler Cafe Racer.

I would more than likely keep this long term but I'm not sure how they'd be like to commute on, real world. I also wonder what all weather gear I'd get that'll fit with the style. I'd probably get Gore Tex clothing if I went down the Adventure route but I'm not sure this would look 'right' on a classic styled bike and not sure a Belstaff/Barbour and Kevlar Jeans would be good enough in the cold & rain. 

I assume you seasoned bikers like to match your clothing styles and colours to your bikes, like I would? 

 

Oh yeah, my budget is £10k including clothing/helmet.

 

Thanks,

 

John

[CWARD]

I would go for option A as having some wind protection is invaluable if you're going to be commuting on it. Between the two the Tiger will be more fun than the Honda but the later will be much cheaper especially with the deals they keep offering.

 

The option B is more of a fun or second bike and is completely different to what you're looking at in option A, which makes me think what kind of bike do you actually need or desire? 

 

Clothing if you're going to commuting will make a big difference. Fully waterproof and breathable would be my choice over being a fashion victim. I have a range of clothing including Goretex Adventure type jacket and trousers to lightweight summer jackets and kevlar jeans as well as summer and winter gloves, as no one type of kit does all but my Goretex Adventure type stuff is used most often. Only mistake I made was buying cheaper kit to begin that leaked or didn't last too long. There is plenty of kit out there to pick from but I'd go for function over form anyday.

 

In your position I would be looking at least 10% minimum of my budget going towards the riding gear, 20% if you want quality with good armour.

 

First I'd think about my earlier question and have you any previous experience of riding motorbikes which may give a clue to what kind of bike you'll be happiest with.

[fabiamk2SE]

I think option A would be the more practical option too. 

 

The modern classics look great but practicality isnt brilliant. Much shorter tank ranges, generally not as good on fuel, no wind protection and like CWARD says, generally speaking make a fun second bike. 

 

Have you looked at the Tracer 700? 10k is loads of money to be spending. 

 

How long is your commute? What sort of roads? 

 

I dont really match my gear to the bike tbh. I just wear waterproof textiles and take the linings out to suit the weather most of the time tbh. 

 

[sandman]

Regarding option A my choice would be the Honda NC750X,have you considered the NC500X may be a bit cheaper to buy and run for commuting,as has been said the Tiger will be more fun to ride,if you choose option B consider a Kawasaki W800 twin,a pleasure to own and ride, would be OK for commute but lacks protection but none of the marques you mentioned provide any,good luck     

[JohnRS]

Thanks all!

What you've all said is what I was thinking to be honest. @CWARD, the need and desire question is the crux of my indecisiveness.  The child in me goes straight towards the classic styles but then the more mature thinks "where will I put my stuff", "I couldn't put my gym gear anywhere".

 

My local Honda do the NC750X on a PCP for £85 a month with £500 deposit, they also pay for 12 hours of training 1 x Mod 1 fee and 1 x Mod 2 fee so this is probably the cheapest and most practicable option. Basically you pay £500 for your lessons etc and they then use that as your deposit once you've passed. The prices aren't inflated to accommodate the £500 either, unlike the local Harley Davidson dealer who just add it to the price of the bike.

As much as I'd like a Tiger I think if I go with the boring Honda I could afford to buy a cafe racer type outright and have that for weekends and summer commutes and use the Honda for daily commutes. 

 

My commute is only 7 miles each way but through the city centre, the North East currently have a few large "road improvement" schemes underway with more to start in the new year so traffic is only going to get worse. Hence the bike.

[CWARD]

Have you thought about a large scooter? Ideal for a 7 mile commute, built storage and nippy too. 

 

You could do you bike test buy a second hand big scooter for the commuting. If you like the two wheel experience then get a second hand retro bike if that’s your thing and still have money in your pocket. 

 

[MikeTheThinker]

Much good advice above. A few more notes from a 50-year rider (an old fart but with a lot of rider miles):

 

- you're going to spend a lot of hours on this bike in mixed weather and potentially heavy and bike-ignorant or downright hostile traffic.

 

- it will be your first larger bike so prior experience is limited

 

- you need to be able to arrive at work ready to work and not wet through or stressed out

 

- your greatest risk of an "off", whether your fault or another's, will be during your first year

 

I wouldn't buy your bike on "spec"; go ride it and see if it fits you and your style. You can always upgrade later.

 

Perhaps consider a mildly used bike that won't lose so much money out of the showroom door? Look at the overall costs rather than be drawn in by special offers.

 

I'd also avoid shiny and blingy for commuting unless you're prepared to set aside time every day to wash and lube it after each ride.

 

Whatever you do, be safe and enjoy yourself.

 

Regards, Mike

 

 

[JohnRS]

13 hours ago, CWARD said:

Have you thought about a large scooter? Ideal for a 7 mile commute, built storage and nippy too. 

 

You could do you bike test buy a second hand big scooter for the commuting. If you like the two wheel experience then get a second hand retro bike if that’s your thing and still have money in your pocket. 

 

The Honda has storage too! It's where the fuel tank would normally be - Honda's words, which is large enough to hold your helmet. I don't think a scooter is for me to be honest. 

 

1 hour ago, StickyMicky said:

Much good advice above. A few more notes from a 50-year rider (an old fart but with a lot of rider miles):

 

- you're going to spend a lot of hours on this bike in mixed weather and potentially heavy and bike-ignorant or downright hostile traffic.

 

- it will be your first larger bike so prior experience is limited

 

- you need to be able to arrive at work ready to work and not wet through or stressed out

 

- your greatest risk of an "off", whether your fault or another's, will be during your first year

 

I wouldn't buy your bike on "spec"; go ride it and see if it fits you and your style. You can always upgrade later.

 

Perhaps consider a mildly used bike that won't lose so much money out of the showroom door? Look at the overall costs rather than be drawn in by special offers.

 

I'd also avoid shiny and blingy for commuting unless you're prepared to set aside time every day to wash and lube it after each ride.

 

Whatever you do, be safe and enjoy yourself.

 

Regards, Mike

 

 

Thank's Mike!

A lot of what you've said is what my dad said, he too has 40 odd years riding experience.

 

Your point about going to ride the bike is something I will undoubtedly do, I'm 6'3" and 118kg so need something that can accommodate my, erm petite frame! 

 

I did consider used, but I did just that and looked at 3 years of cost. For example the NC750X is £3,230 over 36 months. I looked at 2 Tiger's locally, both from traders. One was a 14 plate (10k miles) and £7800, the other an 11 plate and £4500 (27k miles) so if i assume this as the depreciation rate ongoing it would cost about the same in 3 years, probably more as the P/X value would be less than £4500. Yes the Tiger is a better bike, however there's no manufacturers warranty, it already has 3 years of usage and I'd be taking on some inerrant risk associated with used vehicles. 

 

Re the arriving at work dry, I 100% agree and I plan on getting Gore Tex gear to use year round. 

 

The safety advice is something my dad has drummed in more than anything else. I cycle a bit and know the perils of being on 2 wheels and I've already enquired into ROSPA tutoring soon after acquiring my licence. 

 

 

Thanks again all!

[Ootohere]

Since you cycle but do not ride a motorbike presently i would seriously suggest even though you are 'not small', 

pay the least you can now, buy a 50cc have your self legal and ride that for a few weeks doing your commute before making the decision to splash big cash.

 

You just spend a few hundred quid including winter riding gear and you can sell that 50cc again in the new year having lost no money.

[MikeTheThinker]

Glad you're looking to RoSPA for training. Despite 25 years riding on and off road both privately and competitively beforehand I learned a great deal from my first RoSPA Advanced course back in the early '90s and again from a refresher a few years later. The lessons were reinforced and extended by attending Police and Emergency Responder training but one strong theme came out of it all - ride for yourself. No-one else is looking out for you on the road.

[jerbear]

On 22/11/2017 at 14:13, StickyMicky said:

 "but one strong theme came out of it all - ride for yourself. No-one else is looking out for you on the road."

 

Sound advice there .....

[Volvomeg]

7k on your first bike, that is a hell of alot of money to throw down road if you come off it,

 

I paid 3200 for my fist bike and had my licence 15 months and ended up sliding down road avoiding somebody else,

 

 

[nicknorman]

I’m 61. I started biking when I was 16 and have always had a bike since then. Currently have a Hayabusa. Still alive!

my tips, for what they’re worth:

 

Dont drive your bike as if it were a car. You won’t last long. Example: you’re driving along a main road in your car. A car approaches from a side road. You assume it will stop so you just carry on. But if you’re driving along the same road on your bike, one time in 1000 it will pull out in front of you. One time in 1000 you’ll die. How many lives do you have? So you have to remove the possibility by adjusting your speed (which bikes are good at) so there cant be a conflict.

 

second tip. There is no point in having a bike if you are going to drive it like a car. Cars get stuck in traffic. Bikes don’t. Unless they are too wide! Don’t get a bike with wide scrambler type handlebars, the scratches they put in the stationary cars are embarrassing!

 

third tip: car drivers treat small bikes like they were some shoe dirt. Get a big evil x-off scary bike, car drivers are scared of that and get out of the way!

Edited 4 December, 2017 by nicknorman

[JohnRS]

Thought I'd give an update to this thread. 

 

I passed my MOD2 today, first time with no minors. I did have one booked in March but it was cancelled due to wind. 

 

I bought some gear before I started the CBT as I wanted to feel comfortable in them. I got Rukku Orivesi trousers/jacket and a Schuberth C4 helmet and some Gore Tex boots and gloves. 

 

I'm looking at a Kawasaki Versys 1000 GT, which after many hours of reading I think these offer the best value for money but ticks the boxes I need. I plan on keeping it long term for commuting and in a few years buy a second "weekend" bike. I've sat on a Vresys and they're perfectly sized and the position feels great, which is more than I can say for CB125 I done my CBT on! 

 

[CWARD]

Nice one John. Make sure you get a text ride of the bike before you buy it. Sitting on the bike in the showroom and riding it on the road are very different. Enjoy yourself, especially now we have warmer weather coming. 

[JohnRS]

1 hour ago, CWARD said:

Nice one John. Make sure you get a text ride of the bike before you buy it. Sitting on the bike in the showroom and riding it on the road are very different. Enjoy yourself, especially now we have warmer weather coming. 

Thanks! Tests rides are difficult, we don't have many dealers in the North East and the one I went to today wanted the full price of the bike in cash before a test ride due to having my licence leas than 2 years. 

[fabiamk2SE]

On 11/04/2018 at 17:56, JohnRS said:

Thanks! Tests rides are difficult, we don't have many dealers in the North East and the one I went to today wanted the full price of the bike in cash before a test ride due to having my licence leas than 2 years. 

 

Dno how they expect to sell a bike with that attitude. Theyve got insurance on it anyway. 

 

Try a CMC if youve one anywhere near. Usually plenty of stock and i find really easy to get a test ride on. 

 

Then give it them back and say no thanks, find one cheaper   

 

congrats on the test pass! 

[JohnRS]

5 hours ago, fabiamk2SE said:

 

Dno how they expect to sell a bike with that attitude. Theyve got insurance on it anyway. 

 

Try a CMC if youve one anywhere near. Usually plenty of stock and i find really easy to get a test ride on. 

 

Then give it them back and say no thanks, find one cheaper   

 

congrats on the test pass! 

I think because there are few bike shops in the region they price high and pretty much do what they want. If you're looking for a dealer that sells multiple new brands, between Ashington and Darlington (60 miles) there are 4 dealers. There are independent ones such as Triumph or Harley Davidson but if you look at say Manchester/Leeds area there are loads. I'm prepared to travel to and from that area so that's where I've been looking. They offer more variety and at a much better price than the north east. 

[BACUPIAN]

With over 50 yrs on bikes & almost the same with cars ...found dealers have only ? so much in profit margins & its worth negotiating for add ons /accessories / clothing /servicings etc , as for goretex gear , in the long long term I have money wise it works out cheaper & I tend to be more comfortable on the bike & do try on different makes styles & sizes . You need to decide bikes & cars what style/type you prefer & test ride/drive the various makes BEFORE parting with any money ! & YOU MAKE THE FINAL DECISION  !!

[hwr1983]

I know this thread is a bit old now but I’ve just had a read of it and Johns plan was much the same as mine in early 2019 and for the same reasons.

 

Being in Yorkshire we’ve a good selection of dealers around. Once I’ve passed I’ll be looking at Tigers and Versys’ (though the Tiger 800 and Versys 650s instead of big engine bikes).

 

After getting some advice from a biker mate as I’m 6’1 and 130kgs he’s suggested something larger than a 300cc due to the physically small size of the smaller engined bikes.

 

I’ve decided on 2nd hand when it’s time to purchase.

[fabiamk2SE]

12 hours ago, hwr1983 said:

I know this thread is a bit old now but I’ve just had a read of it and Johns plan was much the same as mine in early 2019 and for the same reasons.

 

Being in Yorkshire we’ve a good selection of dealers around. Once I’ve passed I’ll be looking at Tigers and Versys’ (though the Tiger 800 and Versys 650s instead of big engine bikes).

 

After getting some advice from a biker mate as I’m 6’1 and 130kgs he’s suggested something larger than a 300cc due to the physically small size of the smaller engined bikes.

 

I’ve decided on 2nd hand when it’s time to purchase.

 

Id agree with your mate tbh. 300cc isnt alot. Handling an 800 tiger you should find easy enough, plus the torque will be welcome from the triple im sure. 

 

I test rode the 1050 Sport and the engine was good, it was just very top heavy. Youd perhaps be alright, you’re bigger than me. Once on the move theyre easy. Whisking around in torque, good vision and road presence. I guess theyre the next step up if you needed one in time. 

[CWARD]

The 800’s market has hotted up a lot and you have a big choice of manufacturers to chose from. Obviously you’re looking at the Adventure style of bike and still a big choice out there. I would suggest trying as many bikes as you can before committing to buy one. Nothing wrong with either bike you mentioned but don’t narrow your scope. 

Where in Yorkshire are you?

[hwr1983]

I’m in Doncaster so quite central to most bike places around the Yorkshire area and we have a J&S locally who have been very good when ive been in looking at gear etc.

 

Not looking to get started until the new year but I am looking forward to it... and I'm hoping that learning to ride a bike might have a side effect of improving my normal driving too.

 

I havent pinned myself down to a specific bike but something with wind protection and relatively upright position so thats why ive gone adventure style.  Obviously cost plays a part too!

 

[CWARD]

I've been to J&S a few times and it's good for clothing, not so much on bikes though but like you say you're not too far from most dealers.  Main reason I was asking about where you are is if buying second hand make sure you're not too far from somewhere that can service and do any recall work too. 

You say you want the Adventure style bike for upright position and wind protection but do you intend to take it off road. If not then don't be bothered with spoked wheels. 

You may want to speak to @fabiamk2SE about Tracer 700's too 

[hwr1983]

1 hour ago, CWARD said:

I've been to J&S a few times and it's good for clothing, not so much on bikes though but like you say you're not too far from most dealers.  Main reason I was asking about where you are is if buying second hand make sure you're not too far from somewhere that can service and do any recall work too. 

You say you want the Adventure style bike for upright position and wind protection but do you intend to take it off road. If not then don't be bothered with spoked wheels. 

You may want to speak to @fabiamk2SE about Tracer 700's too 

 

Ive looked at tracers (both the 700 & 900) and im not 100% sure i like the look of them. 

 

J&S doncaster is the local Suzuki and Kawasaki main dealer, and we also have a Main Triumph dealer locally also. Obviously theres also a couple of independents around the area. I really fancy a BMW but a bit expensive for me.

 

Ill bear it in mind about spoked wheels...any reason why I shouldnt go for them if not off roading (doubt ill be going further off road than a light gravel farm track if we camp if touring)