Is it normal for the rear brakes to wear out much faster than the fronts?

 

In April 16 I had all the discs and pads replaced. All Pagid bought from ECP.

 

Now only 20,000 miles later the rear pads are almost completely down to the metal. 

The fronts still look almost new. 

 

There is barely a lip on the discs. 

Both sides on the rear are worn down exactly the same. 

 

I can't imagine it's both calipers sticking exactly the same. 

The wheels don't get hot and I still get good fuel economy. 

 

Its a 2005 1.9 TDI DSG combi.

 

Any suggestions?

Pretty good that you are going through pads quicker than discs. 

Unusual these days where often the cosmetic disc corrosion has them and pads needing replaced compared to other manufacturers 

and even VW years back where it was 2 sets of pads maybe and discs and 3rd set of pads needed. or just pads again.

Agreed.

Have you checked the hand brake?  That would affect both sides .

I wouldn't be too concerned, I've seen it a few times but to put my mind at ease I would at least jack up the car and spin both wheels to make sure there is no drag

I'm sure I've read somewhere that some cars bias the rear brakes in certain situations to prevent front end dive under breaking, which can mean if you're a very gentle braker you're predominantly using the rear brakes rather than the fronts, not sure how much truth is in this though?

2 hours ago, Anddenton said:

I'm sure I've read somewhere that some cars bias the rear brakes in certain situations to prevent front end dive under breaking, which can mean if you're a very gentle braker you're predominantly using the rear brakes rather than the fronts, not sure how much truth is in this though?

Isn't the brake distribution controlling the brake force between front and rear axles when in particular pressing situations for this?

If brake is used gently how much should be the force applied front and back?

2 hours ago, AkisVH said:

Isn't the brake distribution controlling the brake force between front and rear axles when in particular pressing situations for this?

If brake is used gently how much should be the force applied front and back?

BFD should only apply when one or more wheels are near to locking up but others have more to give. For example, if you brake with one side on near dry tar but the other in a rut full of water.

3 hours ago, AkisVH said:

Isn't the brake distribution controlling the brake force between front and rear axles when in particular pressing situations for this?

If brake is used gently how much should be the force applied front and back?

I don't know how correct this is but the theory I read was that the rear brakes come on fractionally before the front to minimise nose dive and the brake force moves forward as braking is increased. Therefore under very gentle braking most of the force goes to the rear brakes.

In my experience, the reason is that the rear brakes are not releasing properly after braking. Easy to check, drive around for a couple of miles using absolute minimal braking. Then carefully check the rear disc temperatures, they should be cool / luke warm, but there's a good chance they are hot. Brakes sticking on is due to pads seizing on a corroded / bunged up carrier and/or the piston sticking and not retracting when the pedal is released. Cheap pads with slightly oversize backing plates also can stick.

 

The solution is to strip off the calipers and clean up the carrier where the pads slide and apply a very minimum amount of brake grease on these surfaces when reassembling. Open the bleed valve (with an appropriate bleed kit attached) and wind the pistons in, pushing the old and probably dirty fluid out. Tighten bleed valve, and carefully get someone to gently apply the brake pedal to push the pistons back out part way (but not all the way!). Then repeat the wind back / drain procedure. Keep an eye on brake fluid level in the reservoir, make sure it doesn't run too low, top up if necessary. This is to exercise and free up the piston(s) which rust internally, due to build up of moisture in the fluid. After 2 or 3 goes you will find winding back the piston much easier, reassemble (probably with new pads) and check the caliper pad assembly slides back and forth before final pumping the pistons/pads out to disc surface.

 

You will need a proper wind back tool, dont improvise, its just not worth the time and risk of damaging the piston boots.

 

And finally check those discs no longer run hot. Check the fluid level.

 

Sadly this problem arises simply because many dealers are too lazy and greedy to strip and clean brakes at major services as they are supposed to do.

Edited 25 December, 20178 yr by xman

Hmm I drove for about 2 miles today with barely any breaking and the rears were almost stone cold. 

I then did about 12 miles over b roads and used the brakes a fair amount and the rears felt barely warm when I arrived.

 

I have an infrared thermometer at work that I can use tomorrow to see actual temperatures. 

Hmmm ...If the discs are cold then the pads are not sticking.

 

Looks like those Pagid pads are the culprit. Especially as the discs have no lip indicating very light wear on the disc. Try a better brand, Bosch or for the best (imo) ATE.

 

The rears should last as long as the fronts. In the case of our 6 yr old Octavia 1.2 Estate, the OE rear pads went 100,000 miles,  OE fronts went 75,000 miles. Even with sticking pads.

Edited 26 December, 20178 yr by xman

Well I measured them with an infrared thermometer this morning after 13 miles of A road going to work.

 

Front discs - 22c

Rear discs - 30c

 

Looks like they might be sticking after all.

Indeed they might be.  But then if you have been changing rear pads surely you were doing servicing and maintenance on the rear brakes.

& then you will take into account the front discs are larger and vented to aid cooling and braking, 

the rears are smaller and solid on your model and retain heat.

The rears (as said earlier) are biased to allow for minimal braking to slow the car without nose diving. Gentle foot pressure only affects the rears until you press harder then the fronts come on for serious braking. I guess if you ran your 13 mile test with serious braking rather than gentle then you'll have front brakes hotter than the rears.

 

In any event, I'd say you're brakes are fine, just replace pads / discs as required and don't lose any sleep over them until you jack the car and find brakes dragging.

Maybe not relevant here, but many people get lots of life out of tyres, and also lots of life from brake pads, or maybe they do if the corrosion on brakes over night is not high.

Many never touch their brakes much and also get lots of good fuel economy, that is from driving style, looking ahead, lifting off early, using gears and not brakes.

 

Remember that crap ECO tyres and keeping speed and flowing round corners might mean the ESP is operating more than you might ever notice.

Tyres with less traction / friction / grip and VW Groups keeping you safe Electronic Stability Control is working those rear brakes.

Well I've just ordered a set of Bosch pads as my local ECP were out of stock of ATE

I can't complain at £13 with same day delivery in their sale.

I'm just having to look at replacing an osr caliper on my (identical) vehicle.

The nsr was replaced first in 2014, then the nsf required replacing in 2016. Neither of these have had any issues since (fingers crossed).

Recently noticed issues with both os f&r. I have serviced the front again, (this time using ceratec instead of copper - my bad) and this one seems ok for now but due to the extra difficulties of the rear, and a local garage quoting £110 to supply (new trw) and fit the rear, i thought not worth the hassle, although i have freed it off a bit for now.

There still seems a little confusion on disc size though................I was convinced they are 255mm but the garage mentions 253mm (F/L i believe) and 256mm plus 260 & 270. 

They are almost impossible to measure to the mm, taking into account being years old and the rusty edges, but i get them at 254mm, however i do not think 1mm or so will make a difference to the caliper. I have to leave it up to them to get correct.

I was going to purchase from carparts4less (ecp sister) prior to the £110 new / fitted quote. 

If you are talking about the rear discs, the PR codes are printed inside the front cover of the service booklet. Match the rear brake PR code (1KD,1KF etc) to ones quoted in the ECP description under fitment details.

I think there is also a sticker in the boot somewhere with these PR codes.

 

Although some discs are similar in diameter they have different thicknesses.

 

Often the front disc PR code seem to be missing on these stickers.

 

Edited 3 January, 20188 yr by xman

An update to this. 

Had both calipers off at a local garage today and they won't budge to wind in or out whatsoever. They are completely solid.

Odd that both have done the same but I've now got two new calipers ready to fit.

On 12/27/2017 at 10:10, softscoop said:

Well I've just ordered a set of Bosch pads as my local ECP were out of stock of ATE

I can't complain at £13 with same day delivery in their sale.

 

Aren't the fronts ATE, the rears TRW. or am i getting mixed up with something else Sam?

 

And where did you get caliper's from?

Edited 3 January, 20188 yr by Tilt

 There are several brands that make pads that fit.

You need to make sure you get the right ones for your brake code. 

1KD in my case. 

I got them from a local motor factors who bettered the price from euro car parts 

16 minutes ago, xman said:

If you are talking about the rear discs, the PR codes are printed inside the front cover of the service booklet. Match the rear brake PR code (1KD,1KF etc) to ones quoted in the ECP description under fitment details.

I think there is also a sticker in the boot somewhere with these PR codes.

 

Although some discs are similar in diameter they have different thicknesses.

 

Often the front disc PR code seem to be missing on these stickers.

 

 

Yes, 1KD at 255mm, but local garage saying TRW and 153mm or 156mm.

 

I think the 156 must be correct or he hadn't got his glasses on, lol.

1 minute ago, softscoop said:

I got them from a local motor factors who bettered the price from euro car parts 

We got same car (well, identical).

carparts4less are cheaper than their sister company ecp, but only by about £7 but they will also collect your old one for refund.