Monitoring DPF with VAG DPF App.

[Yetiflute]

35 minutes ago, langers2k said:

@widdershins - it just depends what you want to pay...

 

 

I think the Carista dongle is also compatible with the VAG DPF app and pretty cheap at ~£15.

 

 

I use the Carista dongle with the VAG DPF app

[widdershins]

OBDLink LX sounds the best option.  Thanks for that suggestion.  I'm interested in knowing more, but not £225 interested. 

[Alvis]

Hi,

I've posted on another thread of this forum regarding high oil consumption on my Oct MK3 VRS TDI2.0 year 2014. as this problem lead to investigation of DPF behavior and health status.

So here comes my observations maybe someone has noticed similar behavior of DPF readings 

Last weekend finally received my Vgate iCar2 and gave it a test to see what VAG DPF has to say regarding DPF health of my car. Of corse my concerns regarding Oil Ash Residue were confirmed. The app says that there is 53.3 (67%) of Oil ash accumulated in DPF.

But I've noticed one more strange thing, sudden spikes of Soot mass, while driving evenly on motorway Soot mass indicator suddenly jumps from 20% to >60% and car automatically starts regeneration cycle, which also ends quite quickly comparing to cycle which starts when Soot Mass has reached >50% on slow accumulation.

Does anyone had this experience with VAG DPF app recording sudden spikes on Soot Mass? What do you think is it real or just some sensor used for cars ECU to calculate Soot Mass is giving false readings?

[stever750]

On 08/10/2018 at 09:46, Alvis said:

Hi,

I've posted on another thread of this forum regarding high oil consumption on my Oct MK3 VRS TDI2.0 year 2014. as this problem lead to investigation of DPF behavior and health status.

So here comes my observations maybe someone has noticed similar behavior of DPF readings 

Last weekend finally received my Vgate iCar2 and gave it a test to see what VAG DPF has to say regarding DPF health of my car. Of corse my concerns regarding Oil Ash Residue were confirmed. The app says that there is 53.3 (67%) of Oil ash accumulated in DPF.

But I've noticed one more strange thing, sudden spikes of Soot mass, while driving evenly on motorway Soot mass indicator suddenly jumps from 20% to >60% and car automatically starts regeneration cycle, which also ends quite quickly comparing to cycle which starts when Soot Mass has reached >50% on slow accumulation.

Does anyone had this experience with VAG DPF app recording sudden spikes on Soot Mass? What do you think is it real or just some sensor used for cars ECU to calculate Soot Mass is giving false readings?

No I've not seen that. What is mileage of your engine? Driving style / frequency / journey distance etc? 

[muddyboots]

On 08/10/2018 at 09:46, Alvis said:

Hi,

I've posted on another thread of this forum regarding high oil consumption on my Oct MK3 VRS TDI2.0 year 2014. as this problem lead to investigation of DPF behavior and health status.

So here comes my observations maybe someone has noticed similar behavior of DPF readings 

Last weekend finally received my Vgate iCar2 and gave it a test to see what VAG DPF has to say regarding DPF health of my car. Of corse my concerns regarding Oil Ash Residue were confirmed. The app says that there is 53.3 (67%) of Oil ash accumulated in DPF.

But I've noticed one more strange thing, sudden spikes of Soot mass, while driving evenly on motorway Soot mass indicator suddenly jumps from 20% to >60% and car automatically starts regeneration cycle, which also ends quite quickly comparing to cycle which starts when Soot Mass has reached >50% on slow accumulation.

Does anyone had this experience with VAG DPF app recording sudden spikes on Soot Mass? What do you think is it real or just some sensor used for cars ECU to calculate Soot Mass is giving false readings?

I occasionally find that the "measured" soot level on mine (Yeti CR170 with Stage 1 map) can rise faster than the calculated level and exceed it by quite some margin. (Not entirely unexpected, as with the remap it can create more soot than the ECU model expects if you give it some beans.)

Say for sake of example the "calculated" is at 11g and the "measured" is at 22g (which is comfortably over the active regen trigger threshold).

What happens is that the "measured" value will suddenly jump to match the calculated value, and regen then occurs. I suspect this is expected behaviour by the ECU when the mismatch between the two values gets too high.

 

Maybe that's what you're seeing ?

 

I'd be inclined to watch it over quite a few regen cycles to get a feel for how it behaves.

Edited 5 November, 2018 by muddyboots

[muddyboots]

Would be interested to know your mileage too. DPFs do accumulate ash over time anyway, they do eventually get to a point where they will need replacing.

[stever750]

I don't see an actual soot level, instead a see a NOx measure... 

[Yetiflute]

Not quite sure what you are trying to say on the above which looks pretty normal to me and which clearly shows soot and ash levels. The top left soot mass (16.61g) will rise over the next few miles until the percentage bar above it reaches 100% when regeneration will be automatically initiated and that soot mass will reduce and start rising again until the next regeneration. The important value in my book for a normal set of readings like above is the oil ash residue of 17.2g (22%). That value will gradually increase over the life of the car until it reaches such a high level that the dpf will be deemed to be clogged and will need replacing or perhaps speciality cleaning. My value is 7g (8%) at 15300 miles which makes your value at 65238km look ok as well. I don’t know at what percentage that ash level becomes critical but I think you have a long way to go yet.

Edited 6 November, 2018 by Yetiflute

[Alvis]

19 hours ago, muddyboots said:

Would be interested to know your mileage too. DPFs do accumulate ash over time anyway, they do eventually get to a point where they will need replacing.

 

Current mileage is 159000km, and Oil ash residue is 67% and it is rising fast lately, I guess due to high oil consumption which is burned somewhere and causing high soot output.

[stever750]

Someone has previously posted that they can see a measured soot as well as calculated soot. See the app unconnected vs screenshot connected, that's all. 

My general concern is that a regen every 200-300 miles is unacceptable, assuming there is some oil dilution via the ERG when regen taking place. I'm surprised if that's typical, very surprised. My car is remapped, and prior to that a tuning box. I've no idea yet if that has a negative effect on regen frequency and dpf life expectancy. Map is off now so I'll soon find out in the next few days or so. 

Edited 6 November, 2018 by stever750

[stever750]

I've also noticed that on some cars the soot output is measured in mg/min and others like mine mg/km

 

Either way, it's a really useful real time indicator of the amount of soot the engine is allegedly producing 

[Yetiflute]

35 minutes ago, stever750 said:

 

My general concern is that a regen every 200-300 miles is unacceptable, assuming there is some oil dilution via the ERG when regen taking place. I'm surprised if that's typical, 

 

 

I find regeneration every 200-300 miles to be normal for my low mileage use. On the occasions where I have longer journeys the regeneration frequency decreases - 400 miles sometimes. The reason I use the app is to help anticipate a regeneration on short journeys and continue driving until it is complete. I consider that this action minimises problems with my low mileage use.

[muddyboots]

54 minutes ago, stever750 said:

My general concern is that a regen every 200-300 miles is unacceptable, assuming there is some oil dilution via the ERG when regen taking place. I'm surprised if that's typical, very surprised. My car is remapped, and prior to that a tuning box. I've no idea yet if that has a negative effect on regen frequency and dpf life expectancy. Map is off now so I'll soon find out in the next few days or so.

200-300 miles is pretty normal in my experience. There is actually a hard distance limit after which a active regen will occur even if the soot levels are low from passive regen. Can't remember what it is, think I read it in one of the self-study guides, somewhere around 4-500miles I think (certainly well below 1000 miles).

At lot will depend on how the car is driven.

Best for passive regen (and hence longer periods between active regens) is when the EGTs are maintained at a minimum of 300-350ºC, and it's steady-state driving (ie constant speed and throttle position). But not too fast, as the resulting higher EGTs are countered by higher soot production due to higher engine load. I guess the "sweet spot" varies by engine type & car (for example a more aerodynamic car than the Yeti would probably run with slightly slower EGTs for the same speed, once you're up to motorway speeds where the drag starts to have a noticeable effect - hence why Yeti MPG is crap at high speeds!)

Worst (esp when remapped) is being enthusiastic on more rural roads with plenty of hard acceleration followed by braking up to corners. I've seen intervals of 50-60 miles on occasion. I imagine it would be similar if you took to the track, in fact on a track I can imagine you'd probably be in constant regen after a few laps.

In my experience the remap can reduce the distance between regens quite dramatically if you exploit the extra performance, and more frequent regens will increase the rate of ash buildup so there will be some reduction in DPF life. How much depends entirely how much you use the extra grunt.

 

[muddyboots]

16 hours ago, stever750 said:

I don't see an actual soot level, instead a see a NOx measure... 

 

Maybe the available data fields vary by ECU type or engine type?

 

I can see both "calculated" and "actual" soot levels, I have no "Nox Sulfur Charge", and my "Oil Ash Residue" shows "nd" (which I assume is "no data").

My engine type is CFJA.

 

I find the "actual" soot level to be more interesting and immediately reflects the current driving style / EGTs etc; the "calculated" level tends to just rise more steadily - never decreases (unless you manage to get EGTs very high, like 6-700ºC then it does drop a bit until the temps reduce again).

 

PS Hi fellow Strava user

[stever750]

All of that makes complete sense, though I'm surprised at regen frequency. I've simply not noticed it in previous 12 months with the box, bearing in mind my typicsl weekly mileage is around 500 miles, and generally 150 miles between stops. The key number is the instantaneous soot mg/km figure. Hard acceleration with map and it hits 120mg/km. Cruising at 90 on m way its between 15 and 25.

Just taken it for a 25 mile trip, the soot output seems to be similar (we've taken the map off to do a baseline comparison) so maybe the performance map isn't making huge amounts of additional soot after all. Off the bham tomorrow for a 450 mile round trip so I'll have more comparison data. If std tune means a regen every 300-400km then I'll put the performance map back on and not sweat over it. 

 

Not sure it's ever done a passive regen. DPF temps never get much above 350°C no matter how I drive it and I never see the barrel icon turn red and the soot level drop. It only ever does that when the #2 and #3 post stroke injectors start operating and raising the temps to over 500°C

Edited 6 November, 2018 by stever750

[muddyboots]

9 minutes ago, stever750 said:

Not sure it's ever done a passive regen. DPF temps never get much above 350°C no matter how I drive it and I never see the barrel icon turn red and the soot level drop. It only ever does that when the #2 and #3 post stroke injectors start operating and raising the temps to over 500°C

The post-injection and red barrel icon indicate an active regen. Nothing actually happens for a passive regen, it's not an "event" as such, you just see the "measured" soot value start to drop a bit as the soot gets burnt off by the (just-hot-enough) exhaust gas generated by normal running. (You won't see the "calculated" value drop though.)

If you're doing long journeys it's quite likely active regens have been happening and you've never noticed. If I'm on a steady 50-60mph cruise it can complete a full active regen from nearly 20mg soot down to a few grams in under 10 miles. You can sometimes hear a deeper exhaust note while it's happening but it seems quite dependent on engine RPM whether you notice it or not.

Conversely if I'm on a route where speeds are lower or there are a mix of uphills/downhills (the EGTs keep tailing off on the downhills!) and constantly changing speeds it can take 40+ miles to complete.

Edited 6 November, 2018 by muddyboots

[nazitf]

On 10/09/2018 at 01:22, widdershins said:

Hi Folks

 

I got my first car with a DPF a few months ago and heard that they fill up with "sludge" over time and need to be taken off and chemically cleaned, so I was looking around for some info on it and found that VAG dpf app mentioned in this thread.  I read that you needed a bluetooth plug for the OBD socket and got one of e-bay, a Vgate iCar unit.  I downloaded a trial version of Torque to check everything was working before shelling out on an app and, well, it didn't work.  The app basically told me the OBD device was useless.  Lights were on, bluetooth connected, but the car wasn't home so to speak, so the dongle went back,

 

Then I read some more on the subject and discovered most of these OBD devices were badly made chinese knock-offs using stolen designs that they didn't really understand.  Some apparently were even poorer copies of the knock-offs by other makers!  I realised that I couldn't tell if I'd  originally bought a "genuine" knock-off, or a knock-off of a knock-off.  I'd assumed that the price was normal for a genuine OBD scanner as I hadn't bought one before.

 

Given the cost of the car and the cost of a replacement ECU I suddenly realised I'd had a very lucky escape and my chinese OBD scanner could have left me with a ton of immobile scrap on my drive and cost me a fortune to get it fixed!  Can anyone recommend a *good quality* i.e. genuine, bluetooth OBD device that they've actually used and can say for certain will work with an early facelift Yeti (and with the android apps) without risking frying my electronics?  Preferably one that can be purchased from a real uk trader rather than via fleabay.  I'd really like to get a handle on this DPF active/passive soot levels regen thing and oil ash sludge build-up, but not at the risk of damaging my car with some chinese junk.

 

Thanks

 

I appear to have made the same mistake! I bought this one (picture also attached) and found it was receiving power when connected & the car scanner app connected to the ELM but there was no successful connection to the ECU; it kept cycling through different protocols trying to detect the right one and failing each time. How can one tell if its a genuine OBDII reader? I'm only looking for a basic one but also want to avoid the fake ones!

 

[Yetiflute]

Carista obd £9.99 at Amazon. Reputable make which I successfully use

 

[Lloydy1980]

I know this is a response late to the party but this came up whilst I was doing some googling into DPfs. I have a similar app for my 330d as wanted to see what goes on regarding regeneration as I always use additives in the diesel fuel so wanted to see if they actually work. 

I use the oilem hybrogen at the moment (have used Archoil and Hydra products to but not tested those through the app yet). 

I always use tesco diesel as its the cheapest near me so used this with the hybrogen. 

I do long runs every week (Anglesey and back around 145miles each way). 

Having monitored the dpf cycle, i managed to get 315 miles before it regenerated. 

On my next fill up, I decided to try the tesco version of the Vpower diesel to see if this makes any difference (with hybrogen). 

Having driven back yesterday afternoon and having the app monitoring the whole way I can confirm the mileage since the last regeneration is way higher at 450miles (and still climbing) which could be a good indication that the premium diesel does actually make a difference. Must stress all driving habits are the same on each test, eco mode 99% of the journey with the odd flick into comfort for an overtake. I would encourage others to try a thankful and see what results they get. 

Edited 27 April, 2019 by Lloydy1980

[nitro2]

Hi forum , 

 

can anyone advise me in buying an odb interface ( android )  , as the one i currently have stops after about 2 minutes ..............

 

i can reset communications everytime but it is far from confortable .

 

 

 

Edited 6 July, 2019 by nitro2

[stever750]

I bought one of these 2 yes a ago and still working fine. I rarely remove it from the port. 

 

iLC OBD OBD2 Bluetooth Auto... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N30RQNH?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

[Urrell]

4 hours ago, nitro2 said:

can anyone advise me in buying an odb interface ( android )  , as the one i currently have stops after about 2 minutes ..............

 

What's that in the top picture?

[nitro2]

14 minutes ago, Urrell said:

 

What's that in the top picture?

the inside of the bottom picture .

 

So that interface does not have real mounted chips , but a chip straight on the pcb , and also it seems that everything is integrated , as you can see there is a can interface  voltage regulator and bluetooth chip .

 

it reports elm 327 v1.5 as all others and its bluetooth obdII identificated .

[Urrell]

3 hours ago, Urrell said:

 

What's that in the top picture?

 

3 hours ago, nitro2 said:

the inside of the bottom picture .

 

Unless that is a baby holding it that must be the biggest OBD11 plug in ever.
What is the picture of that PCB meant to denote here?