Symptoms: 

 

All gears work and not slipping

Fairly tough to get into gears 

No noise depressing the clutch out of gear.

When in any gear, depressing the clutch, mostly (sometimes ok on first start) slight vibration on pedal from gearbox/engine. 

Biting point of clutch not consistent.

Slight shudder to bite. 

 

Any ideas? 

Is it a Fabia Mark 1 and if so what engine does it have fitted please?

Fabia Blueline 2003, 1.2 HTP 47kW (AZQ)

Not sure what the setup is like on these cars regarding the clutch master cylinder if it's concentric or not. Sounds like it could be that or the cables stretched or maybe the clutch and flywheel itself.

I forgot to mention that when moving the clutch, engine off, the sound from engine bay is very squeaky.

 

The fluid in master cylinder is constant level and not discoloured...

 

Do clutch cables fail that badly? 

 

I though it may be release bearing, clutch and or flywheel. But tbh I don't yet know how to diagnose flywheel damage?

 

Any other things to consider before I start pulling out the gearbox? 

 

 

@Davidmb - OK, if the car has a cable clutch, the hydraulic fluid level is irrelevant here, because the fluid is only for the brakes. If it has a hydraulic clutch it doesn't have a clutch cable!

 

Flywheel damage can only truly be diagnosed by removing the gearbox.

 

Thanks. I'm am bit of a novice. I have changed a gearbox on a non hydraulic vehicle before.  So help really appreciated. 

 

It's definately not cable. It's a hydraulic clutch that has master and slave cylinder.  I can tell from the parts available. 

 

I'm assuming one opens the box. If clutch, bearings, and flywheel intact. It's going to be the slave cylinder. And it's probably worth changing the clutch at the same time... 

 

I guess before that try bleeding hydraulics. 

 

Is there a test to check if it's master before I take out gearbox?  (NB -The brakes seem ok and are not bottoming out or anything.) 

 

Regards 

 

 

Edited 19 June, 20188 yr by Davidmb

@Davidmb - The easy test for a bad slave (or indeed master) cylinder is to stop on flat ground handbrake off, put the car in 1st gear and hold the clutch down for a minute. If it tries to move off, one of your cylinders is bad.

 

Bleeding the clutch hydraulics is way easier than removing the gearbox too. It's like bleeding brakes but with only one circuit (but a gotcha on some models that there are bleed points on the master as well as the slave).

@KenONeill

Thanks for all the help.  

I just got home, and tried the test on flat ground. Clutch biting point very low. With clutch depressed and in 1st gear almost wants to move forward. Rhythmic tapping and vibration sound when in gear and clutch down. Less so with just the clutch out of gear. But still a tiny vibration. When in gear, and I back off the clutch, i.e. move it 1 cm up, bites. Then when I put clutch back to the floor the car moves ever so slightly forward - even though should not. I am guess this is pointing to a master or slave on its way out....Might be worth a garage doing a pressure test on the master. If its not master. Oh no... 

 

Then I will take it home and decide whether to remove the engine and box with a engine hoist, or try to fight it side on. Hmmmmm...  I am truly thinking it would be easier getting it out of the bay. Despite the extra labour.     

I will keep this post updated with progress. 
  

37 minutes ago, Davidmb said:

@KenONeill

Thanks for all the help.  

I just got home, and tried the test on flat ground. Clutch biting point very low. With clutch depressed and in 1st gear almost wants to move forward. Rhythmic tapping and vibration sound when in gear and clutch down. Less so with just the clutch out of gear. But still a tiny vibration. When in gear, and I back off the clutch, i.e. move it 1 cm up, bites. Then when I put clutch back to the floor the car moves ever so slightly forward - even though should not. I am guess this is pointing to a master or slave on its way out....Might be worth a garage doing a pressure test on the master. If its not master. Oh no... 

 

Then I will take it home and decide whether to remove the engine and box with a engine hoist, or try to fight it side on. Hmmmmm...  I am truly thinking it would be easier getting it out of the bay. Despite the extra labour.     

I will keep this post updated with progress. 
  

 

I thought the that slave cylinder was on the outside of the gearbox for the smaller petrol engines .

 

However hydraulics don't cause tapping and vibration so I suspect the clutch pressure plate or release bearing has failed though so it may be a gearbox out job (no need to remove the engine)

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 June, 20188 yr by bigjohn

15 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

 

I thought the that slave cylinder was on the outside of the gearbox for the smaller petrol engines .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah they are.

@bigjohn

@TMB

 

Thanks Big John. That was my initial instinct.    

Thanks for heads up TMB

OK ill keep the engine in situ, and rough it. I'll let you know how I get on with those gearbox bolts near the exhaust...

And when further down the road send some pictures.

Wish me luck... 

    


 

 

Good luck. 

How many miles has it done?

 

@Wino

 

116 578

Ours went at about 150, story here.

Some of the photos aren't working, I'll try and fix one or two now.

@Wino

 

That's a real help.  Thanks

More photos than I remembered! Mostly done now.

One tip that I read about recently, and wished that I'd known at the time: Once the box is fully unbolted, pull the engine forward as far as possible to create space (did that) but also rotate the box around its axis so that the diff comes upward, away from the sub-frame. This allows the bulk of the box to drop down out of the congestion zone (apparently, I'll be sure to try it when the Polo needs its clutch done).

@Wino

 

Clockwise or counterclockwise on the box.

Regards...  

Counterclockwise as viewed from the nearside of the car. Lifting the diff up away from the subframe, which otherwise gets in the way.

Edited 19 June, 20188 yr by Wino
sp

@Davidmb - After these updates, I'm now thinking in terms of a heavily worn friction plate (and/or possibly a worn dual mass flywheel if applicable, but determining that if you have one is a gearbox out job).

@KenONeill

Ok I've had some time, and got the gearbox off. Not the easiest one...  

Here are some photos, and a video, for you to examine and comment 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zHDFrcRpDFd92dco7

It looks like I have a single mass flywheel (Thankfully!) So the noise, I described earlier, I believe is unlikely due to that?

 

The release bearing sounds very noisy when you spin it - like a worn skateboard bearing. So this maybe could account for the noise?

 

The clutch plate looks gone - there are no lines and the disk is flat. And the fingers look worn by the release bearing. 

 

Could this thin clutch plate account for a low biting point? ( I thought the biting point would be higher up if worn?)  

 

There is a lot of play between the spindle and the release bearing (see video) - Is this Ok? or will I need to replace/upgrade the spindle as well?  

Anyway, any thoughts and comments most appreciated 

 

Regards   

David 

 

Edited 4 July, 20187 yr by Davidmb

You've done the hard work, just replace the whole lot, parts are cheap, the labour notsomuch.

@Davidmb - Friction plate is toast. So replace the entire clutch assembly as @sepulchrave recommends.

16 hours ago, Davidmb said:

There is a lot of play between the spindle and the release bearing (see video) - Is this Ok? or will I need to replace/upgrade the spindle as well?  

I think that is just because of the release bearing, nothing to do with the shaft.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the support! 

I've ordered a new clutch kit from the vin number (an OEM clutch kit by Valeo)   

 

Do I need to replace the gearbox and driveshaft bolts, or are they reusable?   

 

@Wino
@sepulchrave 
@KenONeill